91% of America Believes in God

[Abbey Marie]

That doesn't come even close to answering my question.

Actually, I totally answered the question. Do you think lawsuits such as these are brought on theoretical issues? Like, "Hey they might someday pray in that school, so we'd better sue now. And we don't want anyone to change what they are doing, either. We just want to sue."

It you have examples of of suits brought by these kinds of groups not intended to change some group's or individual's behavior, let's see 'em. I'll bet the overwhelming majority, if not all, fit my description.

[avatar4321]

An often touted claim, but one that is weightless unless you can show where anyone's church has been closed, Bible seized, forced conversion, etc. by way of any of these law suits.

The real problem lies with the pushy thumpers who aren't satisfied to live their own lives and feel compelled to dictate their morality to everyone else. Those are the people who define free exercise of religion as license to subject even the unwilling to their mythological hogwash.




It only makes sense that the intent was to prevent either from interfering with the other.

You dont need a church closed to infringe on peoples right to exercise their religion in the public.

[theHawk]

The real problem lies with the pushy thumpers who aren't satisfied to live their own lives and feel compelled to dictate their morality to everyone else. Those are the people who define free exercise of religion as license to subject even the unwilling to their mythological hogwash.

Religion is nothing more than a set of beliefs. And everyone, "religious" or not, tries to push their beliefs on everyone else. Where people get these beliefs, whether it be from an organized religious group, Darwin, or from Karl Marx, is irrelivant. The point of the matter is the substance of the idealogy, not from where it stems from.
The Bible says murder is wrong, so are our laws against murder an example of dictating religious beliefs onto all of society?

[Missileman]

I do agree that there are those who wish to make everybody believe in Christianity. I dare say, however, that there are an equal number who would like to force people not to believe in Christianity. Calling someone's religion "mythology" is not only rude, it's showing yourself to be one of the latter I speak of.

Demonstrate how the Bible, particularly the OT is anything other than mythology. While you're at it, feel free to point out where I've endorsed the eradication of Christianity or any other religion for that matter.

It amazes me that people still argue "seperation of church and state". What does that mean? Does that mean I can't pray while I'm at school? Why not? Of course I wouldn't expect to be able to pray out loud, neither would I say I should be able to disrupt class with talking at anytime. But who is it to tell me that I can't pray silently each morning before class? Who's to tell me that I CAN'T pray, as a judge, lawyer etc before a case just because I'm in a courthouse? THIS is what "Seperation of Church and State" means. It does NOT mean I can't do these things, it means I can worship any way I feel as long as i'm not forcing it on others.

The question is moot. How can anyone stop someone from praying silently whenever they choose? What is being objected to is the mandatory moment of silence during school time. Perhaps you might explain why it's necessary and why the kids who wish to offer a morning prayer can't do so before they leave home or on the bus on the way to school?

[Missileman]

Religion is nothing more than a set of beliefs. And everyone, "religious" or not, tries to push their beliefs on everyone else. Where people get these beliefs, whether it be from an organized religious group, Darwin, or from Karl Marx, is irrelivant. The point of the matter is the substance of the idealogy, not from where it stems from.
The Bible says murder is wrong, so are our laws against murder an example of dictating religious beliefs onto all of society?

If the Bible were the only document ever in which murder was established to be wrong you might have a point.

[Missileman]

You dont need a church closed to infringe on peoples right to exercise their religion in the public.

So are you one of those who define your right of free exercise as being able to push your message on those who don't want to hear it?

[grunt]

Demonstrate how the Bible, particularly the OT is anything other than mythology. While you're at it, feel free to point out where I've endorsed the eradication of Christianity or any other religion for that matter.

Prove to me that there is no God. Prove Evolution. Prove WHAT gravity is. Prove that the Sun is going to come up tomorrow. Prove that you're even here. You can't. You can have FAITH that the sun will come up tomorrow based on YOUR life experiences. You can have FAITH that gravity will pull that baseball you just threw in the air back down to the ground. Again, because of your life experiences, but you can't prove it before it happens. My life experiences lead me to believe that there is indeed a God. That there is indeed a Creator. And you, nor anyone else can make me believe otherwise. I feel sorry for you in that you have never experienced The Loving God the way I have. You ask me to prove it? I ask you to prove my experiences.

I never said that you endorse the eradication of Christianity. I simply stated that by your choice of phrases/words about Christianity you portray yourself as someone who would rather not have Christianity around.

The question is moot. How can anyone stop someone from praying silently whenever they choose? What is being objected to is the mandatory moment of silence during school time. Perhaps you might explain why it's necessary and why the kids who wish to offer a morning prayer can't do so before they leave home or on the bus on the way to school?

The question is not moot. When people like you don't want to allow a "moment of silence" in public schools, this is infringing on my right to pray. Nobody else has to pray if they don't want. File your nails. Go over some homework. Read a book. It doesn't matter to me. Yet, it matters to you what I do with my silent time. The reason it matters is because there are many people who like to have a silent prayer in a group setting. Where in the Constitution does it say that that is illegal? Again, NOT ALLOWING silent prayer in school is totally against what the founders of this country wanted. And that is, a right to worship without fear of being punished or ridiculed at anytime, anywhere as long as it doesn't infringe upon anyone else's right not to.

[grunt]

So are you one of those who define your right of free exercise as being able to push your message on those who don't want to hear it?

If you really don't want to hear things you don't like, you better find a cave and wall yourself up. That's the beauty about living in a free society. I can go to any public place and preach the Bible if i so please. As long as I'm not impeading your progress. I wouldn't do that because I think it just turns more people away from Chritianity than pull them to it, but I would never protest to someone doing it. The same way I would never infringe on someone's right to preach anti-American rhetoric.

[Kathianne]

Yep, far and away the US is the most religious of all developed states, even towards the top, globally. Hasn't actually changed all that much since the Revolution.

[avatar4321]

So are you one of those who define your right of free exercise as being able to push your message on those who don't want to hear it?

i define it as being about to express your views in public without any branch of the government saying otherwise.

[Missileman]

Prove to me that there is no God. Prove Evolution. Prove WHAT gravity is. Prove that the Sun is going to come up tomorrow. Prove that you're even here. You can't. You can have FAITH that the sun will come up tomorrow based on YOUR life experiences. You can have FAITH that gravity will pull that baseball you just threw in the air back down to the ground. Again, because of your life experiences, but you can't prove it before it happens. My life experiences lead me to believe that there is indeed a God. That there is indeed a Creator. And you, nor anyone else can make me believe otherwise. I feel sorry for you in that you have never experienced The Loving God the way I have. You ask me to prove it? I ask you to prove my experiences.

Again, ALL of the mythology from the same time period has been determined to be nothing more than that...why is the OT any different? I'll give you a hint...it isn't.

The question is not moot. When people like you don't want to allow a "moment of silence" in public schools, this is infringing on my right to pray. Nobody else has to pray if they don't want. File your nails. Go over some homework. Read a book. It doesn't matter to me. Yet, it matters to you what I do with my silent time. The reason it matters is because there are many people who like to have a silent prayer in a group setting. Where in the Constitution does it say that that is illegal? Again, NOT ALLOWING silent prayer in school is totally against what the founders of this country wanted. And that is, a right to worship without fear of being punished or ridiculed at anytime, anywhere as long as it doesn't infringe upon anyone else's right not to.

The bolded statement is pure bullshit and you know it. It's like trying to claim that schools infringe upon your right to eat breakfast because they don't serve it. If the student wants to pray silently what's to stop them? And you still haven't answered why these morning prayers HAVE to be performed in school. Why not at home or on the way to school? WTF do these poor kids do on weekends with no school to pray in?

[Missileman]

If you really don't want to hear things you don't like, you better find a cave and wall yourself up. That's the beauty about living in a free society. I can go to any public place and preach the Bible if i so please. As long as I'm not impeading your progress. I wouldn't do that because I think it just turns more people away from Chritianity than pull them to it, but I would never protest to someone doing it. The same way I would never infringe on someone's right to preach anti-American rhetoric.

If you feel compelled to stand on a street corner and preach, that's your prerogative, I have the ability to walk across the street to avoid your nonsense. I've never claimed that such exhibitions should be banned, but what really strikes me funny is some Christian's inability to understand the simple concept of appropriate time and place.

[grunt]

Again, ALL of the mythology from the same time period has been determined to be nothing more than that...why is the OT any different? I'll give you a hint...it isn't.




The bolded statement is pure bullshit and you know it. It's like trying to claim that schools infringe upon your right to eat breakfast because they don't serve it. If the student wants to pray silently what's to stop them? And you still haven't answered why these morning prayers HAVE to be performed in school. Why not at home or on the way to school? WTF do these poor kids do on weekends with no school to pray in?

Bad analogy. Not allowing SILENT prayer in schools is akin to not allowing me to THINK. Period. Nothing's stopping them from doing it. But why do you find it necessary to make it ILLEGAL for kids to be quiet for half a minute?
Prayer doesn't HAVE to be performed in school, but who are you to tell me that I CAN'T pray when and where i want?

[grunt]

If you feel compelled to stand on a street corner and preach, that's your prerogative, I have the ability to walk across the street to avoid your nonsense. I've never claimed that such exhibitions should be banned, but what really strikes me funny is some Christian's inability to understand the simple concept of appropriate time and place.

I've already stated that I think it's counter-productive...but who are you to tell me what to say in public?

[Gunny]

Again, ALL of the mythology from the same time period has been determined to be nothing more than that...why is the OT any different? I'll give you a hint...it isn't.




The bolded statement is pure bullshit and you know it. It's like trying to claim that schools infringe upon your right to eat breakfast because they don't serve it. If the student wants to pray silently what's to stop them? And you still haven't answered why these morning prayers HAVE to be performed in school. Why not at home or on the way to school? WTF do these poor kids do on weekends with no school to pray in?

Who cares why they want to do it in school? The fact is, they do, and can't. That is infringement of their right to freedom of religious expression.

If 91% of the taxpayers in a school district vote that they want a moment of prayer in school, they should get it. Instead, the big mouth representing the 9% gets catered to and the Constitution purposefully misinterpretted to do so.

It's called tyranny of the minority, nothing more nor less.

The Exclusionary Clause does not state religion cannot exist within government facilities. It states that the government itself cannot endorse a specific religion.