Dispensationalism: Apostasy in the church

[avatar4321]

What other kinds of covenants are there?

There are lots of covenants that don't include salvation.

The covenant God made with Abraham for example, wasn't for salvation, but for specific blessings: Land for inheritence, eternal increase in children, that through His seed the world might be blessed, that the Messiah would come through His lineage.

Numerous blessings that had absolutely nothing to do with His salvation.

[5stringJeff]

I disagree completely. It was the Jewish leaders who made the new covenant with Christ, atleast that's what Matthew implies. Although, they didn't intend to do so.

It was actually God who instituted the new covenant, through Christ, with mankind.

[TheSage]

There are lots of covenants that don't include salvation.

The covenant God made with Abraham for example, wasn't for salvation, but for specific blessings: Land for inheritence, eternal increase in children, that through His seed the world might be blessed, that the Messiah would come through His lineage.

Numerous blessings that had absolutely nothing to do with His salvation.

Oh right, worldly blessings for a worldy people, and grace for the people of the "church era". You can't use dispensationalism to justify dipensationalism. You may try, but it will be ultimately ineffective.

[darin]

Dispensationalism is a heretical teaching which has crept into most branches of christianity.

It holds jews do not need jesus. This is not what jesus or the early church fathers would have said.

Well, I've never heard that teaching in ANY church I've frequented. "Most" branches of Christianity? How do you define 'most branches'? It's definaletly not in the major branches I'm familiar with - those branches preach ALL have sinned, and therefore NEED to accecpt Christ as substitutional attonement for their sins.

[TheSage]

Well, I've never heard that teaching in ANY church I've frequented. "Most" branches of Christianity? How do you define 'most branches'? It's definaletly not in the major branches I'm familiar with - those branches preach ALL have sinned, and therefore NEED to accecpt Christ as substitutional attonement for their sins.

What do preachers say about jews in your church? The chosen people with an intact covenant, with a holy purpose on earth?

Christ is becoming secondary in the masonically corrupted noahide movement we call modern christianity.

Jesus repeatedly told the rabbis they were full of it.

[5stringJeff]

Christ is becoming secondary in the masonically corrupted noahide movement we call modern christianity.

Jesus repeatedly told the rabbis they were full of it.

I'll second Darin's question - what churches are saying this??

I'm beginning to think you're full of it.

[TheSage]

I'll second Darin's question - what churches are saying this??

I'm beginning to think you're full of it.

What does your church say about jews? Still the chosen people with a special purpose to bring god's law to the world?

[5stringJeff]

What does your church say about jews? Still the chosen people with a special purpose to bring god's law to the world?

Don't dodge. What churches are preaching your pet dogma of noahidism?

[TheSage]

Don't dodge. What churches are preaching your pet dogma of noahidism?

On the christian side it's called dispensationalism.


Most of them. Even yours. If yours doesn't, kindly tell me what they do teach about jews.

[darin]

What do preachers say about jews in your church? The chosen people with an intact covenant, with a holy purpose on earth?

Christ is becoming secondary in the masonically corrupted noahide movement we call modern christianity.

Jesus repeatedly told the rabbis they were full of it.

The only jews our church preaches about are ethnic-jews...you know....Jesus...Mathew...Peter...some of the pharasees are involved in some of the lessons, too.

Don't get caught up with looking for the devil, that you miss Christ.

IMO, the Jews were Chosen by God to deliver HIS message. From the time of Christ, however, ritualistic sacrifice is no longer required...ANY PERSON who accepts christ is no longer ANYTHING but "Christian". I learned that at church.

[darin]

On the christian side it's called dispensationalism.


Most of them. Even yours. If yours doesn't, kindly tell me what they do teach about jews.

Dude - you can't answer the question. It's up to YOU to prove your claim of 'most'...not up to everyone who calls you on it.

[TheSage]

Dude - you can't answer the question. It's up to YOU to prove your claim of 'most'...not up to everyone who calls you on it.

Dude. Im saying "your church". If your church doesn't teach this crap, then kindly tell me what they do say.

"Most churches" is a legitimate construct. I cannot name most churches. Can we start with yours? What does yours say? I don't attend an organized church, but I'm down with jesus. He was the ultimate rebel.

[darin]

Dude. Im saying "your church". If your church doesn't teach this crap, then kindly tell me what they do say.

"Most churches" is a legitimate construct. I cannot name most churches. Can we start with yours? What does yours say? I don't attend an organized church, but I'm down with jesus. He was the ultimate rebel.

But you have NO idea if it's MOST churches, or TEN Churches.
I Already told you what my Church 'teaches'. They don't specifiy Jews because we have MORE important things to discuss....like how to deal with the ConspiraJews. Jewahides?


I bet JESUS would NEVER get banned here.

[Nienna]

I fully disagree with dispensationalism. There is only one Way to be saved from Hell, and that is to believe that Jesus was God's son, that He died in payment for our our sins, and to grow in obedience to God. This applies to everyone in the world.

In looking at God's covenant with Abraham, it says nothing about salvation. God promises Abraham to bless both his sons (Isaac and Ishmael) with many descendents, but He promised to stay faithful to Isaac's descendents, to make Himself know as their God, to give them land, and to bring kings from his descendents. (Note: God did not promise to remain the God of Ishmael's descendents, and now Ishmael's descendent worship Allah.) On Abraham's side, he was to circumcise every male in his household.

Jesus' coming did not cancel any covenant that God made; it fulfilled them. The Jewish people still know that "Ya" is God; however, most of them have rejected the saving power of Jesus. God's covenant is still in effect, because God is known to the Jews. However, this does not mean that all Jewish people will get to Heaven.

The two main rituals used in the Jewish religion (sacrifice and circumcision) are only foreshadowings of Jesus' fulfillment, done to help people understand what was happening when Jesus finally arrived. Animal sacrifice was done so that people would know that sin deserves death. Circumcision was a casting away of the most intimate flesh. When Jesus arrived in Time, He became the fulfillment of those rituals. He sacrificed Himself unjustly so that we could have Justice satisfied for our sakes. He restored mankind to the possibility of intimacy with God, giving us the power to carve away the disobedience and self-love (flesh) in our hearts.

So... to sum up... God's covenants with the Jews are still in effect. However, this does not mean that they don't need Jesus to be saved from Hell. God favored the Jewish people in bringing the Path of Salvation through them, and giving knowledge of Him FIRST to them. But, each individual is responsible for accepting his OWN relationship with God, or he doesn't get to Heaven.

[5stringJeff]

On the christian side it's called dispensationalism.


Most of them. Even yours. If yours doesn't, kindly tell me what they do teach about jews.

You're the one claiming that "most" churches teach dispensationalism. The burden of proof is on you to provide the evidence. Here's a link for you to start learing: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Main_Page