KSM and Others Trials In NYC Why?

[Kathianne]

Quite amusing and deadly serious. More and video at site. Note that it's a 'conservative site :

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/wash...-muhammed.html

Video shows Sen. Obama thought a military tribunal was fine for Khalid Shaikh Mohammed
November 18, 2009 | 1:40 pm
As The Ticket reported earlier today in this space, Atty. Gen. Eric Holder was on the Senate Judiciary Committee hot seat defending his decision to bring the alleged 9/11 terrorist masterminds onto U.S. soil for civilian trials instead of keeping them far away in Guantanamo Bay for a military tribunal.

Alabama Republican Sen. Jeff Sessions, himself a former federal prosecutor, says he's amazed at Holder's simplicity claim and remains unconvinced that such a move, which could make New York City a target for potential new attack, makes any legal sense whatsoever.

Speaking of military tribunals, we went back into the video archives and found this C-SPAN tape below. Holder might want to watch it.

It contains his boss, Barack Obama, a brief member of that same Senate, in 2006 stating that a military tribunal was a perfectly fine way of handling such dangerous individuals as Khalid Shaikh Mohammed.

Obama said the fight against terrorism was "an extraordinarily difficult war" where terrorists could plot undetected from within our own borders.

The freshman Illinois senator was defending a legislative amendment and pointed out that a military tribunal for Mohammed seemed just fine to him.

"The irony of the underlying bill as it's written is that someone like Khalid Shaikh Mohammed is going to get basically a full military trial with all the bells and whistles. He's gonna have counsel. He's gonna be able to present evidence to rebut the government's case.... I think we will convict him. And I think justice will be carried out."...

[bullypulpit]

9/11 wasn't a "crime", it was an act of war. (Or did you think the Germans' objections to our crossing the Rhine and invading their country in 1944, were based solely on the fact that we violated their laws against trespassing?) And the 9/11 perpetrators we captured should be treated the way combatants in war are always treated: Held without trial indefinitely, until the conflict is over.

Well, there is an extenuating circumstance. The Geneva Convention accords state that, if a combatant is found making war on a country without wearing a uniform to distinguish himself from noncombatant civilians, and especially if he is wearing civilians clothes in a deliberate attempt to hide among civilians and cause their deaths by atttracting enemy fire, he is to be treated as a spy. Spies are to be given field courts-martial, lined up against a wall, and summarily shot.

Far as I know, these terrorists never signed or agreed to the Geneva Accords. They certainly don't obey it. So, they are not subject to its usually-benevolent provisions. But I'd be happy to make an exception in their case.

Why are the terrorists getting a public, civilian trial?

To provide them a stage for a show trial, of course, where they can publicly berate the Bush administration, demand (and get) evidence formerly protected by U.S. govt secrecy rules, and make speeches for days on end about the horrors of having water poured on them and having to wear their underwear over their heads.

Plus the opportunity to be able to drag U.S. officers and troops from their posts in Iraq, Afghanistan etc., into the courtroom in NYC for "testimony", and otherwise screw up our military in any other way they can find.

What other reasons could the Obama administration have for pretending terrorists and enemy spies captured during war, are civilian "criminals"?

US and Allied forces crossing the Rhine was a part of a declared war against a nation state with an organized and standing army. Not at all analogous to the attacks on 9-11.

But more to the point, the right wing was all for criminal trials for those responsible for the first WTC attack...They were all for the trial of Zacharias Moussaoui. What's different about this? Nothing. We tried the military option under the Bush administration, and had bin Laden and his top lieutenants slip through our fingers at Tora Bora.

That the right has so little faith in Article 3 courts and the justice system is indeed disturbing. If you want a trial and sentence carried out in a day, fine, we can do as the Taliban do...drag the offender before an Imam, have him pronounced guilty and beheaded...all in an hour. But that's not what the Founding Fathers had in mind. It is, rather, a betrayal of the ideals this nation was founded upon.

When the right wing-nut punditocracy calls for drum-head courts and dismiss the Constitution, as Bill O'Reilly did the other night one can only ask "Why do they hate America?"

[bullypulpit]

Nope. I'm more interested in Art I Sec 8. Why undo over 200 years of military and civil laws.

Just what about holding these trials in the district in which the crimes were committed conflicts with Article I Sec 8 of the Constitution?

Never mind that prominent conservatives and retired military personnel support trials in criminal courts...

<center><a href=http://mediamatters.org/research/200911130035>Conservative media attacks of detainee trials undermined by support from ret. military brass, conservative scholars, and statesmen</a></center>

<blockquote> * Stephen Abraham, Lieutenant Colonel (Ret.), U.S. Army Intelligence Corps (Reserves); Lawyer, Newport Beach, California

* Dennis Archer, President, American Bar Association, 2003-2004; Mayor, Detroit, 1994-2001; Associate Justice, Michigan Supreme Court, 1986-1990

* William Banks, Professor, Director, the Institute for National Security and Counterterrorism; Laura J. & L. Douglas Meredith Professor of Law, Syracuse University College of Law

* David M. Brahms, Brigadier General (Ret.), U.S. Marine Corps, 1963-1988, Legal Adviser, 1983-1988; Practicing attorney; Member, Board of Directors, Judge Advocates Association

* Larry Edwin Craig, U.S. Senator (R-ID), 1991-2009, Chairman of the Senate Committee on Veterans' Affairs, 2005-2007; President, New West Strategies

* James P. Cullen, Brigadier General (Ret.), U.S. Army Reserve Judge Advocate General's Corps; Chief Judge (IMA), U.S. Army Court of Criminal Appeals; practicing lawyer

* Sandy D'Alemberte, President, American Bar Association, 1991-1992

* John W. Dean, Nixon White House Counsel, 1970-1973

* Mickey Edwards, Member of U.S. Congress (R-OK), 1977-1993, Chairman of the House Republican Policy Committee, 1989-1993; Former National Chairman, American Conservative Union; Founder, Heritage Foundation; Lecturer at the Woodrow Wilson School of Public and International Affairs, Princeton University

* Bruce Fein, former Associate Deputy Attorney General and Assistant Director, Office of Legal Policy, U.S. Department of Justice; former General Counsel, Federal Communications Commission; former Research Director for the Joint Congressional Committee on Covert Arms Sales to Iran; former Executive Director, World Intelligence Review; Adjunct Scholar, American Enterprise Institute; Resident Scholar, Heritage Foundation; Lecturer, Brookings Institute; Adjunct Professor, George Washington University

* Eugene R. Fidell, President, National Institute of Military Justice; Florence Rogatz Lecturer in Law, Yale Law School; Of Counsel, Feldesman Tucker Leifer Fidell LLP

* Louis G. Fisher, Specialist in Constitutional Law, Law Library, Library of Congress

* Sam Gardiner, Colonel (Ret.), U.S. Air Force

* Philip Giraldi, Francis Walsingham Fellow, American Conservative Defense Allliance; Former CIA counter-terrorism specialist and military intelligence officer

* Michael S. Greco, President, American Bar Association, 2005-2006

* Robert Grey, President, American Bar Association, 2004-2005

* Lee F. Gunn, Vice Admiral (Ret.) U.S. Navy

* Don Guter, Rear Admiral (Ret.) U.S. Navy, 1970-2002;

* Robert Hirshon, President, American Bar Association, 2001-2002

* John D. Hutson, Rear Admiral (Ret.) U.S. Navy, 1973-2000; Judge Advocate General, 1997-2000; President and Dean, Franklin Pierce Law Center

* David R. Irvine, Brigadier General (Ret.) U.S. Army; Former Deputy Commander, 96th Regional Readiness Command; former faculty member, Sixth U.S. Army Intelligence School, 18 years; former Legislator (R), Utah House of Representatives

* Albert H. Konetzni, Jr., Vice Admiral (Ret.) U.S. Navy, Deputy and Chief of Staff, U.S. Atlantic Fleet, Deputy Commander, U.S. Fleet Forces Command; Commander, Submarine Force, U.S. Pacific Fleet; Commander, Submarine Group Seven (Yokosuka, Japan); Assistant Chief of Naval Personnel for Personnel Policy and Career Progression

* Scott McConnell, Editor-at-Large of The American Conservative

* James E. McPherson, Rear Admiral (Ret.), Judge Advocate General of the U.S. Navy, 2004-2006

* David C. Miller, Jr., Special Assistant to the President, National Security Affairs, National Security Council for President George H. W. Bush, 1989-1990; Ambassador to Zimbabwe, 1984-1986; to Tanzania, 1981-1984

* Melvyn S. Montano, Major General (Ret.) U.S. Air National Guard, 1954-1999

* Alberto Mora, Former General Counsel, Department of the Navy

* William H. Neukom, President, American Bar Association, 2008-2009

* Michael Ostrolenk, National Director of the Liberty Coalition; Founder and National Coordinator, Medical Privacy Coalition; President and Co-Founder, American Conservative Defense Alliance

* Murray G. Sagsveen, Brigadier General (Ret.) U.S. Army; Staff Judge Advocate for the State Area Command, Special Assistant to the National Guard Bureau Judge Advocate, Army National Guard Special Assistant to the Judge Advocate General of the Army; General Counsel, American Academy of Neurology

* Stephen A. Saltzburg, Attorney General's ex-officio Representative, U.S. Sentencing Commission, 1989-1990; Deputy Assistant Attorney General, Criminal Division, U.S. Department of Justice, 1988-1989

* Daniel S. Seikaly, Chief of the Criminal Division, U.S. Attorney's Office, District of Columbia, 2001-2004; Associate Inspector General for Investigations, Central Intelligence Agency, 1998-2001; Associate Deputy Attorney General, U.S. Department of Justice, 1996-1998

* William S. Sessions, Director of the FBI, 1987-1993; Chief Judge, 1980-1987, and Judge, 1974-1987, U.S. District Court for the Western District of Texas; U.S. Attorney, Western District of Texas, 1971-1974

* John F. Tate, President, Campaign for Liberty

* Colby Vokey, Lieutenant Colonel (Ret.) U.S. Marine Corps, 1987-2008; Lead Counsel for Guantanamo detainee Omar Khadr at Military Commissions, 2005-2007; Attorney, Fitzpatrick Hagood Smith & Uhl, LLP

* H. Thomas Wells, Jr., President, American Bar Association, 2009-2010

* Lawrence Wilkerson, Colonel (Ret.) U.S. Army; Visiting Pamela C. Harriman Professor of Government at the College of William and Mary; Professorial Lecturer in the University Honors Program at the George Washington University; former Chief of Staff to Secretary of State Colin Powell, 2002-2005

* Stephen N. Xenakis, Brigadier General (Ret.) U.S. Army, Commanding General of the Southeast Army Regional Medical Command; author on medical ethics, military medicine, and treatment of detainees</blockquote>

[red states rule]

I do not care for Lindsey Graham, but he wiped the floor up with Eric Holder. Like Obama, Holder is in way over his head

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[red states rule]

AG Holder said even if KSM or his fellow terrorists are found "not guilty" they will be held anyway

Why is Obama and Holder wasting time, and money with this? Is it to try and appease their base?

'Heads I Win, Tails You Lose': In 9/11 Case, KSM Won't Walk Free Even If Found Not Guilty
Michael Isikoff
Attorney General Eric Holder acknowledged on Wednesday a previously unspoken proviso to the controversial decision to try alleged 9/11 mastermind Khalid Sheikh Mohammed and four co-conspirators in a federal court in New York: even if the defendants are somehow acquitted, they will still stay behind bars.

Holder's comments at a hearing before the Senate Judiciary Committee would seem to turn the criminal-justice system on its head. The whole point of a criminal trial is to determine guilt—and if the government fails to make its case beyond a reasonable doubt, the defendant walks free.

At least that's the way the system usually works.

But pressed today by Sen. Lindsey Graham, Republican of South Carolina, about what might happen "if, by some one in a million fluke, one of the defendants were acquitted," Holder responded in effect that they won't be released.

First, he noted, Congress has already barred any Guantánamo detainees from being released inside the United States. But then, pressed again about what would happen "if one of these terrorists" in the future were found not guilty or given a short sentence, Holder agreed that the Justice Department would still retain the authority to lock them up as enemy combatants.

"I certainly think that under the regime that we are contemplating, the potential for detaining people under the laws of war, we would retain that ability," Holder said.

http://blog.newsweek.com/blogs/decla...ot-guilty.aspx

[bullypulpit]

AG Holder said even if KSM or his fellow terrorists are found "not guilty" they will be held anyway

Why is Obama and Holder wasting time, and money with this? Is it to try and appease their base?

That being the case then...and hell must be freezing over...I agree with you. If they are to continue to be held, even if acquitted, the trials are no more than a kangaroo court where the verdict is in before the trial begins. Mr. Holder should be ashamed of himself.

The letter AND spirit of the Constitution must be upheld, else it is meaningless. If they are acquitted, they must be released.

[red states rule]

That being the case then...and hell must be freezing over because I agree with you. If they are to continue to be held, even if acquitted, the trials are no more than a kangaroo court where the verdict is in before the trial begins. Mr. Holder should be ashamed of himself.

The letter AND spirit of the Constitution must be upheld, else it is meaningless. If they are acquitted, they must be released.

Goven Obama's comment on them being convicted and put to death, their defense attornies are salavating at the prospect of a criminal trial

This will be a liberals dream come true

The United States, Pres Bush, VP Cheney, the US militray, and the CIA will be put on trial for the entire world to see

Bottom line is, Holder was humilated by Sen Graham, and shows how unqualifed he is to be AG