"Reconquista"

[NightTrain]

Wasn't it capitalism that made America the wealthiest and most powerful nation in the history of the world?

Not really. The geographic land size and abundance of productive resources in the U.S. ensured that a greater measure of success than that of say, Belgium, would be present here.

That's why the Soviet Union was such an economic powerhouse.

[HogTrash]

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I doubt that. You, for example, are incapable of even distinguishing between Marxism and anarchism.

I distinguish between them well enough to know they are like oil and water.

To make marxism work it takes a big government with lots of guns pointing at people without guns to force them to participate in their 'utopian' slavery.

Animal Farm - The pigs who are in charge announce "We are all equal, but some are more equal than others".

Not really. The geographic land size and abundance of productive resources in the U.S. ensured that a greater measure of success than that of say, Belgium, would be present here. But even if we were analyzing the economic structure of the U.S., development occurred through state-protected industries rather than "free markets." So while I consider that capitalism, it seems that it would be the kind of capitalism that you inaccurately describe as "socialism."

How utterly rediculous...Is this what your marxist indoctrinators at the university told you?

Free market capaitalism worked great untill the corporations got access to and control of the crooked politicians in government and manipulated the laws and rules to benefit them instead of the people.

We the people are no longer represented in government...We don't need to turn to socialism, we need to clean house and return to what made America wealthy and powerful in the first place and keep it that way.

Many of your socialist programs contributed to getting us in the mess we are now suffering in...Big government spending and taxing and borrowing and going forever deeper in debt...Your policies are to blame.
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[gabosaurus]

The OP needs to get with CheeseWars for Thanksgiving. They can discuss their various hatreds and prejudices.

[Agnapostate]

That's why the Soviet Union was such an economic powerhouse.

I'm a libertarian, but it's still undeniable that the earlier Five Year Plans generated remarkable economic and productive growth, particularly in the industrial sectors. Yet, centralized economic planning could not be solely credited; the Soviet Union's management of substantial productive resources also needs to be credited.

I distinguish between them well enough to know they are like oil and water.

No, you don't. You have absolutely no idea what you're talking about, and are merely parroting the talking points and gibberish of thousands of other similarly misinformed rightists on the Internet. You're not sufficiently informed to realize that anarchism originated as an explicitly socialist ideology (capitalism is an authoritarian economic structure, so advocacy of a libertarian economic structure such as socialism was necessary), and that socialism's entailment of the public ownership and management of the means of production excludes Leninism and its derivatives from that ideology.

To make marxism work it takes a big government with lots of guns pointing at people without guns to force them to participate in their 'utopian' slavery.

I've not referred to Marxism, as I am an anarchist, and anarchism is a pre-Marxist form of socialism. Regardless, there is no element of Marxism that could reasonably be interpreted as endorsement of totalitarian or even especially authoritarian political structure.

Animal Farm - The pigs who are in charge announce "We are all equal, but some are more equal than others".

Animal Farm was written by a socialist and anarchist sympathizer, so I'm glad you mentioned it. The fact that even an anti-authoritarian socialist can be disingenuously described as an anti-socialist by other anti-socialists shows the extent to which rational analytical thought about this subject has degenerated.

How utterly rediculous...Is this what your marxist indoctrinators at the university told you?

This is exactly the same stupid crap that thousands of other rightists on the Internet repeat, and more evidence that you can't form original thoughts.

Free market capaitalism worked great untill the corporations got access to and control of the crooked politicians in government and manipulated the laws and rules to benefit them instead of the people.

"Free market" capitalism has never been existent, as capitalism requires a substantial government presence for sustainment purposes.

We the people are no longer represented in government...We don't need to turn to socialism, we need to clean house and return to what made America wealthy and powerful in the first place and keep it that way.

Many of your socialist programs contributed to getting us in the mess we are now suffering in...Big government spending and taxing and borrowing and going forever deeper in debt...Your policies are to blame.

Socialism entails the public ownership and management of the means of production, which has not been present in the U.S. The state influence that you refer to is an element of capitalism, which unlike socialism, requires the state as an integral agent to sustain its economic structure.

[HogTrash]

No, you don't. You have absolutely no idea what you're talking about, and are merely parroting the talking points and gibberish of thousands of other similarly misinformed rightists on the Internet. You're not sufficiently informed to realize that anarchism originated as an explicitly socialist ideology (capitalism is an authoritarian economic structure, so advocacy of a libertarian economic structure such as socialism was necessary), and that socialism's entailment of the public ownership and management of the means of production excludes Leninism and its derivatives from that ideology.

Your indoctrinators were very thorough...If you only knew how often I've heard these programmed marxist responces...I classify myself politically as a libertarian conservative while you seem to be classifying yourself as a communist anarchist which to me is like mating a sheep with a lion.

My beliefs regarding politics and government is the result of the history of the stuggle of humankind to create a civilization that provides an environment of prosperity, dignity, safety and liberty and not what I hear on tv or the internet and certainly not what some long-haired, far left-wing, nutcase, america hating college professor is shoving down the throats of the young, impressionable and naturally rebelious youth that are intrusted to them.

Academia is filled with people like you...I've been there...That's right...Dumb ole HogTrash is edumacated...In fact, probably much more so than you...That combined with my worldly education, street smarts, intelligence quotient and wisdom that can only come with age, I would suspect you are a little behind.

But do you know what my greatest qualities are?...Absence of gullibility and I seek the truth regardless of whether or not it conforms to my beliefs or ideology...You have bought into your beliefs, lock stock and barrel and see only what you want to see because you are not looking for the truth...Like most of the brainwashed youth churned out by academia every year you believe you already have all the answers and look only for confirmation of what you already believe.

I've not referred to Marxism, as I am an anarchist, and anarchism is a pre-Marxist form of socialism. Regardless, there is no element of Marxism that could reasonably be interpreted as endorsement of totalitarian or even especially authoritarian political structure.

Of course not...No one promoting marxism would annouce that it will be accompanied by totalitarianism...That would be a bit counter productive, don't you think?

Karl Marx correctly anticipated the poor masses would welcome a system that would strip the rich of their wealth and divert it to a community till, that would provide for all people equally from cradle to grave.

Even Marx did not know the consequencies of his creation and that people would eventually rebel when stripped of their freedom and the promise of the good life deteriorates into rationing and poverty and force would be needed to keep them in line.

Remember Tieneman Square?...There is 7000 dead college students who might disagree with you...The power structure must flex it's muscles every once and a while...Easy to do when the people are forbidden to own guns.

Animal Farm was written by a socialist and anarchist sympathizer, so I'm glad you mentioned it. The fact that even an anti-authoritarian socialist can be disingenuously described as an anti-socialist by other anti-socialists shows the extent to which rational analytical thought about this subject has degenerated.

George Orwell was also a socialist yet he was well aware of the dangers of such a system that gave the government enormous power over every aspect of the people's lives and the likelyhood of what that power would lead to..."1984"...Totalitarianism.

This is exactly the same stupid crap that thousands of other rightists on the Internet repeat, and more evidence that you can't form original thoughts.

You are being repetitious and "original thought" is Hog's specialty.

"Free market" capitalism has never been existent, as capitalism requires a substantial government presence for sustainment purposes.

Not "substantial"...Only some equalizers and restraints are required...You have been lied to.

Socialism entails the public ownership and management of the means of production, which has not been present in the U.S. The state influence that you refer to is an element of capitalism, which unlike socialism, requires the state as an integral agent to sustain its economic structure.

Socialism or "public ownership and management" as you put it, means that all industry will actually be under the control of government agencies and the economy will be totally dominated by bureaucracy.

Go tell your marxist professor that government can't even deliver the mail on time.

[NightTrain]

I'm a libertarian, but it's still undeniable that the earlier Five Year Plans generated remarkable economic and productive growth, particularly in the industrial sectors. Yet, centralized economic planning could not be solely credited; the Soviet Union's management of substantial productive resources also needs to be credited.

Not sure this got across, but I was being facetious.

Using your logic, the USSR should have dwarfed any country on the planet with its staggering size and vast resources.

Instead, the political climate stifled economic growth. American style capitalism would have rocketed that country to the top - and it was indeed headed that way just as Stalin seized control. At the same time that America was expanding westward and developing, Russia was as well until Stalin got in the saddle.

Instead of dominating, they stagnated in a cesspool of corruption with a few elite and millions of peasants. There was no incentive for the smart young man to stick his neck out and try to get rich with his idea, or to improve on something. You were a party hack, in the military or a peasant. Not my idea of utopia.

A perfect, shining example of capitalism vs. socialism.

HogTrash was 100% correct when he asked:

Wasn't it capitalism that made America the wealthiest and most powerful nation in the history of the world?

Since he won't answer with a straight reply, HT, I'll do it for him.

Yes.