Scores of Utah shelter animals used in research

[Noir]

Noir I can't stand the thought of animals being killed, I feel bad when I see them at the zoo all caged up, and even thinking about cats and dogs needing homes makes me sad, but I still eat meat. So I suppose I must not feel bad enough. At least I admit it.

This is the reaction that i simply can not stand, and yet it is a common one, when some agrees that what happens is horrid, and yet they just don't care enough about such heinous acts to make a few simple lifestyle changes. To think something is right and thus support it is understandable, if not agreeable. But to think that something is wrong and yet support it anyway because its 'not wrong enough' is simply baffling, to me anyway.

[chloe]

This is the reaction that i simply can not stand, and yet it is a common one, when some agrees that what happens is horrid, and yet they just don't care enough about such heinous acts to make a few simple lifestyle changes. To think something is right and thus support it is understandable, if not agreeable. But to think that something is wrong and yet support it anyway because its 'not wrong enough' is simply baffling, to me anyway.

Im sure its baffling to all animal rights activists. Yet this is how I am. I don't try to cover it up do I?

[Noir]

Im sure its baffling to all animal rights activists. Yet this is how I am. I don't try to cover it up do I?

Well how do you explain it to yourself if you know its wrong but just don't care enough to do anything about it?

[chloe]

Well how do you explain it to yourself if you know its wrong but just don't care enough to do anything about it?

Noir what I said was it is sad about the animals and I don't like to think about them being killed or not having homes or being sold to u of u for science research, but I acknowledged l still eat meat. I would be happy to give you an insight into my thinking process about meat eating but I suspect that you have no real interest in knowing how my mind works rather you want to debate vegan non meating lifetstyle in an argument fashion. If you want a sincere answer as to what I think in reference to my own animal eating Im happy to oblige, but I am not interested in your self righteous judgement. Do Vegans feel bad about women killing unborn babies>?

[Noir]

Noir what I said was it is sad about and I don't like to think about them being killed but still eat meat. I would be happy to give you an insight into my thinking process about meat eating but I suspect that you have no real interest in knowing how my mind works rather you want to debate vegan non meating lifetstyle in an argument fashion. If you want a sincere answer as to what I think in reference to my own animal eating Im happy to oblige, but I am not interested in your self righteous judgement. Do Vegans feel bad about women killing unborn babies>?

But i am looking for a sincere answer, because i can not understand how you would believe that murdering animals is wrong, and yet still support their murder.

Also just a quite point of reference, i am a vegetarian not a vegan, just incase that ends up causing confusion,

As for vegans and abortion, i have no idea, i would guess the majority are against it, but i can certainly not speak for anyone but myself. and as for my beliefs on the matter i am against abortion in general, but whenever it comes to specific cases i am not certain, inwhich case i would put my faith in the liberty of the women.

[SassyLady]

Sweet jezy crezy, you honestly have the gaul to suggest that you think animals should be treated with respect? Is that after you slit their throats? or after you pull out their guts? or after you eat their flesh?

Well, before I slit their throats of course, when I've thanked them for sacrificing their life for my sustenance.

Suggesting that you have respect for creatures that you will happily murder and eat is akin to a rapist having respect for his victims, i.e. maybe in their own twisted mind, but that is not the kind of mind from which you should take a fair judgement i'm sure you'd agree.

No, I completely disagree with you.

I do not run about flapping my hands, meat eaters and murderers exist and they always will. The fact that i happened to point how the hypocrisy of reactions could hardly be considered an over-reaction by any stretch of the imagination.

When you grow up you will discover that not everything is black and white, either/or.....etc.

I'm not trying to make you feel guilty about anything, you were the one that decided you feel bad about the story in the OP, i just find it stupendous that you can not then relate the same thoughts to other aspects of your life,

I have no control over how others treat the animals they encounter in their daily life.........I do have control over my actions and even though I can birth, feed and raise animals in my backyard and converse with them daily, I can also kill them for food on my table when it's time. That is their purpose. How you cannot understand that is beyond me.

[Gaffer]

Noir you really need to look up the definition of murder. And not the peta definition.

[Noir]

Noir you really need to look up the definition of murder. And not the peta definition.

I don't care for PETA, on the whole they are idiots,

and the end of the day it is needless death, and a death for no reason in my book is murder.

[Noir]

Well, before I slit their throats of course, when I've thanked them for sacrificing their life for my sustenance.

As i'm sure a rapist bless their victims sacrifice for their pleasure.

No, I completely disagree with you.

Care to explain the differnce? You are justifying your own means by saying you think you are being respectful, anybody could do that about anything if they want.

When you grow up you will discover that not everything is black and white, either/or.....etc.

...no its pretty simple, you can support the murder of animals for food, or you can oppose it, where's the grey area exactly?

I have no control over how others treat the animals they encounter in their daily life.........I do have control over my actions and even though I can birth, feed and raise animals in my backyard and converse with them daily, I can also kill them for food on my table when it's time. That is their purpose. How you cannot understand that is beyond me.

Yes you "can" kill them, as can i, but does that mean you must? No. Does that mean you need to? No. Yet you chose to murder these animals anyway. And it is not their purpose to exist so you may eat their felsh, less you have decided it is (again self justification) I would also notice you're Avatar, i assume you don't murder and eat the flesh of dogs?

[HogTrash]

Out of the 68 views that this topic has had, i wonder how many people have came in and gone 'egh, thats disgusting, this must stop' and then sat down that night to some freshly murdered lumps of flesh and thought 'delicious'

Guilty as hell on a daily basis.

[Noir]

Guilty as hell on a daily basis.

I expected no less, sir.

[SassyLady]

As i'm sure a rapist bless their victims sacrifice for their pleasure.

Don't know, never asked a rapist - have you? And, if you must compare me to a murdering rapist because I choose to raise, kill and eat animals then do what you must. It will not change who I am or what I do, but it might make you feel better about yourself.

Care to explain the differnce? You are justifying your own means by saying you think you are being respectful, anybody could do that about anything if they want.

I don't need to justify anything to you....because you are not the one I will be judged by.

...no its pretty simple, you can support the murder of animals for food, or you can oppose it, where's the grey area exactly?

Because YOU choose to classify it as murder and I don't.............you are saying it's either/or black/white.........neither/both of us is right/wrong, therefore, it must be gray.

Yes you "can" kill them, as can i, but does that mean you must? No.

Yes I must, because I don't eat them while they are alive.

Does that mean you need to? No. Yet you chose to murder these animals anyway. And it is not their purpose to exist so you may eat their felsh, less you have decided it is (again self justification) I would also notice you're Avatar, i assume you don't murder and eat the flesh of dogs?

Yes, I choose to kill animals for my own consumption. And those that I raise are for that very purpose.

As for dogs, I have chosen to keep them as pets rather than as a source of food. However, there are many cultures that will use them as a source for food.

Noir, I don't hold you in contempt for not wanting to eat animal flesh..........I'm not judging you. Do what you feel is right. You have done your due diligence in stating your opinion, and trying to get me to change my stance, however, you'll get no further with me on this. We will just have to agree that we disagree on this issue.

You take care.

[HogTrash]

I have eaten dog in the Phillipines...

It was actually pretty good but anything would probably taste good when it's smothered in BBQ sauce and you haven't eat all day and have drank way too many San Miguels.

[chloe]

But i am looking for a sincere answer, because i can not understand how you would believe that murdering animals is wrong, and yet still support their murder.

Also just a quite point of reference, i am a vegetarian not a vegan, just incase that ends up causing confusion,

As for vegans and abortion, i have no idea, i would guess the majority are against it, but i can certainly not speak for anyone but myself. and as for my beliefs on the matter i am against abortion in general, but whenever it comes to specific cases i am not certain, inwhich case i would put my faith in the liberty of the women.

I am not sure whether you are looking for a sincere answer. But I will give you mine, I believe alot of things humans do in life is wrong. In my own personal history I have made choices that I knew was wrong but did it anyway. For instance when I did drugs and drank on the job, and lied to people I loved and stole from people I loved, I knew it was wrong but at the time I was not able to stop myself, I had an addiction that I didn't want to stop, the pain for me was not bad enough to stop even though it hurt people I loved. Finally at some point in my life I had my own awakening so to speak and quit all the drugs n drinking. I feel bad about eating meat and I have periodically tried to stop eating it, but much like drugs I find it is hard for me to stop wanting meat on occasion, I crave it. While it doesnt get me high and its not a necessity I was raised all my life on meat and I like the taste of it. I find my choice selfish and I feel bad about it, but I have not been able to stop eating it. What I have come to understand about myself is that no matter how bad I feel about something, that I won't change my own behavior or actions until I'm ready to and ready does not come to me instantly. I could force myself to do it, but it would be ingenuine because my frame of mind cares more about my what my appetite desires then an animals life. I am not justifying myself I am explaining to you in an honest way why i have not made a change even though i feel bad about it. I wish I could understand why vegans or vegetarians are ok with abortion. I feel like if they are against animals dying it makes sense they should be against babies dying, afterall if a baby is not aborted and allowed to take natures course it is born a human being, so why wouldnt that be as important as animal rights. But I guess some people value animals more and I value humans more.

[Noir]

Don't know, never asked a rapist - have you? And, if you must compare me to a murdering rapist because I choose to raise, kill and eat animals then do what you must. It will not change who I am or what I do, but it might make you feel better about yourself.

Never asked one myself, merely using it as an example to show how daft self justification is.

I don't need to justify anything to you....because you are not the one I will be judged by.

Indeedy you don't have to, but this being a forum discussion such things are kinda needed to keep the discussion going. Though its clear you'd rather not. Also nice to note the 'i'll murder animals if i want and let god judge me more it' Many monstrosities have spawned from such trains of thoughts,

Because YOU choose to classify it as murder and I don't.............you are saying it's either/or black/white.........neither/both of us is right/wrong, therefore, it must be gray

.

It is unnecessary killing. That is black and white. I call it murder, you don't, thats a moot point. What is not moot is the fact that it is a death for no reason.

Yes I must, because I don't eat them while they are alive.
Yes, I choose to kill animals for my own consumption. And those that I raise are for that very purpose.

More death for no reason. They are for that purpose because you decide that is there purpose, that is more self justification, yet it doesn't stand up to much. After all if you raised a child with the purpose of slaughtering them at 5 years old that would not make slaughtering them any more just.

As for dogs, I have chosen to keep them as pets rather than as a source of food. However, there are many cultures that will use them as a source for food.

I know they do, it disgusts me, as any other animal, but yet again this is an area for hypocrisy, as many will happily eat animal flesh, be recoil at the thought of murdering and eating their pet dog or cat.

Noir, I don't hold you in contempt for not wanting to eat animal flesh..........I'm not judging you. Do what you feel is right. You have done your due diligence in stating your opinion, and trying to get me to change my stance, however, you'll get no further with me on this. We will just have to agree that we disagree on this issue.

Likewise, do what you feel is right, but when you think the OP is wrong i fail to see how you think eating animal flesh is right, but you've made it clear you wish not to continue, laters.