Iraq war is 'lost': US Democrat leader

[manu1959]

Military in Iraq. What have we accomplished in the last 5 years.....and Manu, I'm trusting you I don't want a C&P from FR.

don't know what a c&p from fr even is....militarily.....removed the military and the dictator which allowed for sanctions and debts to be lifted and also allowed for free elections and the possibility of self rule.....it would appear that criminals, syrians, iranians, x-military and two factions of religious zelots are doing everything within their power to prevent this adventure from being a social victory....and after 5 years america seems to have lost their patience so i fear we will withdraw and you will get to watch rawanda all over again.....

[lily]

I don't recall being promised that.

You don't consider all the times the American public was told, when the Iraqis stand up, we will stand down......if that isn't a promise, I don't know wht is.

You know you're rightthough.......we haven't heard that in a long time,....I wonder why that is???

How long did it take the japs and krauts? And they didn't have Iran fueling the fire, and the inherent religious differences.

I'm not talking about Japan and Germany.......I'm talking aroubt Iraq. As for Iran fueling the fire.....secure the borders and stop making excuses.

[manu1959]

Well, then wouldn't it be a good idea to move these well trained men into where the battle is that our men seem to be fighting for them?

no....that is how vietnam was fought...we took a town left and then they took it back.....it was stupid....

[lily]

don't know what a c&p from fr even is....militarily.....removed the military and the dictator which allowed for sanctions and debts to be lifted and also allowed for free elections and the possibility of self rule.....it would appear that criminals, syrians, iranians, x-military and two factions of religious zelots are doing everything within their power to prevent this adventure from being a social victory....and after 5 years america seems to have lost their patience so i fear we will withdraw and you will get to watch rawanda all over again.....

Yeah, you're the second one that gave me that pat answer.....the last 2 years was the question........and those Iraqis standing up.

Lost intrest.......hardly, patience for the way this war is being fought....you betcha!

[glockmail]

You don't consider all the times the American public was told, when the Iraqis stand up, we will stand down......if that isn't a promise, I don't know wht is.

You know you're rightthough.......we haven't heard that in a long time,....I wonder why that is???



I'm not talking about Japan and Germany.......I'm talking aroubt Iraq. As for Iran fueling the fire.....secure the borders and stop making excuses.

We were not promised a time table. The krauts and japs are relevant because of the historical perspective. It takes a long time to build a country from nothing. And we started with less than nothing.

[manu1959]

You don't consider all the times the American public was told, when the Iraqis stand up, we will stand down......if that isn't a promise, I don't know wht is.
You know you're rightthough.......we haven't heard that in a long time,....I wonder why that is???
I'm not talking about Japan and Germany.......I'm talking aroubt Iraq. As for Iran fueling the fire.....secure the borders and stop making excuses.

as i said they have stood up in the north and south.....problem is downtown and the wild west....

[lily]

no....that is how vietnam was fought...we took a town left and then they took it back.....it was stupid....

No, that's what we are doing now. You said there were Iraqi soldiers in some parts of Iraq where it is peaceful........how about moving them into battle? I would think that if it would take x number of Iraqi soldiers to keep the peace in a town, then it would take 1/4th less of our soldiers to do the same thing. If their tours are going to be extended anyway, take them out of harms way and let the Iraqis fight for their freedom, not our soldiers.

[glockmail]

No, that's what we are doing now. You said there were Iraqi soldiers in some parts of Iraq where it is peaceful........how about moving them into battle? I would think that if it would take x number of Iraqi soldiers to keep the peace in a town, then it would take 1/4th less of our soldiers to do the same thing. If their tours are going to be extended anyway, take them out of harms way and let the Iraqis fight for their freedom, not our soldiers.

I think the problem is that you can't rely on arabs. They're lazy, deceitful, and stupid. At least that's been my experience. Every one that I've delt with.

[lily]

We were not promised a time table. The krauts and japs are relevant because of the historical perspective. It takes a long time to build a country from nothing. And we started with less than nothing.

I am not talking a timetable.........I'm talking about 5 years of training Iraqi soldiers. We are not building a country NOW, we are in the middle of fighting a war........a war I might add again that should be by now fought by the Iraqis. Good God, man...........how long does it take to train soldiers? I wish our men had 5 years of training. If you insits on bringing in WW2....then we tought farmers faster than that.

[manu1959]

No, that's what we are doing now. You said there were Iraqi soldiers in some parts of Iraq where it is peaceful........how about moving them into battle? I would think that if it would take x number of Iraqi soldiers to keep the peace in a town, then it would take 1/4th less of our soldiers to do the same thing. If their tours are going to be extended anyway, take them out of harms way and let the Iraqis fight for their freedom, not our soldiers.

you have secure provinces....they are secure because of the number of soliders / police there.....what makes you think they are not drawing down to approprtaie levels and shifting assets?

as for switching places? i would venture to say we fight better than the iraqis do....we proved that 5 years ago...if you switch you miught as well just leave

[lily]

as i said they have stood up in the north and south.....problem is downtown and the wild west....

We've already been through this one. Move them.


Excuse me while I go bang my head against the wall!

[manu1959]

Yeah, you're the second one that gave me that pat answer.....the last 2 years was the question........and those Iraqis standing up.

Lost intrest.......hardly, patience for the way this war is being fought....you betcha!

it is not a pat answer....you asked militarily....the military was done 5 years ago....it is a police action and counter terrorist gig...think northern ireland but worse....

[glockmail]

I am not talking a timetable.........I'm talking about 5 years of training Iraqi soldiers. We are not building a country NOW, we are in the middle of fighting a war........a war I might add again that should be by now fought by the Iraqis. Good God, man...........how long does it take to train soldiers? I wish our men had 5 years of training. If you insits on bringing in WW2....then we tought farmers faster than that.

It's the damn arabs! Hold on while I join you at the wall.

[lily]

I think the problem is that you can't rely on arabs. They're lazy, deceitful, and stupid. At least that's been my experience. Every one that I've delt with.

I've already answered this one...........then I want a refund. We've been training them, we should have "known" that they were useless.........your words not mine and stopped wasting our money and stop lying to the American public that we were training them........in fact.......we're still sending money to train them. We can fight over there forever, but until the Iraqs are ready to do the fighting for their freedom, then it's a lost cause.

[manu1959]

We've already been through this one. Move them.
Excuse me while I go bang my head against the wall!

i have already answered you why i wouldn't move them / switch them....

but for fun lets say you took all the us boys and put them up north and down south and turned the iraqi army loose in the middle...kiss the middle good by and you have three countries....