Question for atheists (from another thread)

[glockmail]

Mum's a pretty good at hiding their disappointment from their sons. They tend to fear rebellion.

[Noir]

Mum's a pretty good at hiding their disappointment from their sons. They tend to fear rebellion.

Lol, damn right, cus i'm such a rebel, its hard drugs and erratic sex antics all the way with me,

[glockmail]

Lol, damn right, cus i'm such a rebel, its hard drugs and erratic sex antics all the way with me,

Those aren't the only ways to rebel, obviously. For me it was getting drunk; for you its shunning God.

[Noir]

Those aren't the only ways to rebel, obviously. For me it was getting drunk; for you its shunning God.

So...she hid her disappointment in me being an atheist, because in showing her disappointment i may rebel by...er...shunning God?

[glockmail]

So...she hid her disappointment in me being an atheist, because in showing her disappointment i may rebel by...er...shunning God?

No she doesn't want you to do something that can't be reversed.

[PostmodernProphet]

This is pure tosh.

It is hotly debated whether Spinoza's God is panentheist, pantheist, or atheist. But by reading through Einstein's works, which i assume you have not done, it is clear to see that he uses the word 'God' to mean Nature. It is to the eternal annoyance of Atheists that scientists use the word 'God' on this poetic way, because it is certain that once they are dead then the religious will twist these words on them.
Even Steven Hawkings, who is no doubt an atheist still uses the word 'God' as Einstein did, and i bet you in 30 years time i'm having a debate with some idiot who will use a Hawking God quote =/

I expect it's possible to pretend Einstein was an atheist....so long as you ignore everything he's ever said as well as the definition of "atheist".......apparently it's sufficient for you that if he isn't a "Christian" he's an atheist.....like all the Muslims, Jews, Buddhists and Sikhs......

[PostmodernProphet]

Also can you answer my question directly rather than asking another question in reply, if you see a creator in beauty and love, Do you also see the same creator in ugliness and hatred?

what kind of answer do you want....you expect an answer that God makes things uglier and more hateful?.....I have answered he makes it less.....I know you don't like that answer, but who gives a fuck what you like, it's still a valid answer.....

[PostmodernProphet]

It is a lie, i did not say i saw less than you did, I appreciate the beauty of something based on its beauty. Thus you assume, from your prespective that i must "see less" if you really want to think that then fine, but don't start posting it and saying that i said it, when i didn't, that is truly dishonest.

You inferred something from a statement that i did not imply, that is called assuming, you have since gone on to twice claim its 'obvious' to try and justify your assumption, but i will have none of it.

/shrugs......I have stated what I believe to be completely true, how can it then be a lie?...I think what I have stated is patently obvious......quite frankly, I don't give a shit what you will "have" and don't like being called dishonest for stating what I believe....

[Noir]

I expect it's possible to pretend Einstein was an atheist....so long as you ignore everything he's ever said as well as the definition of "atheist".......apparently it's sufficient for you that if he isn't a "Christian" he's an atheist.....like all the Muslims, Jews, Buddhists and Sikhs......

LOL

I define atheism as - the belief that God (of any religion) does not exist.

You need only look at what Einstien said to know his beliefs, here are three examples

"I am a deeply religious nonbeliever. This is a somewhat new kind of religion."

I have never imputed to Nature a purpose or a goal, or anything that could be understood as anthropomorphic.What I see in Nature is a magnificent structure that we can comprehend only very imperfectly, and that must fill a thinking person with a feeling of "humility." This is a genuinely religious feeling that has nothing to do with mysticism.

It was, of course, a lie what you read about my religious convictions, a lie which is being systematically repeated. I do not believe in a personal God and I have never denied this but have expressed it clearly. If something is in me which can be called religious then it is the unbounded admiration for the structure of the world so far as our science can reveal it.

As i said, the word 'God' was used by Einstien to talk about nature and natural laws, it is nothing to do with an religious god.

Carl Sagan put it well, saying "If by 'God' you mean a set of physical laws* that govern the universe, then their clearly is a God. This God is emotionally unsatisfying...it does not make much sense to pray to gravity"

*As Einstein did.

[PostmodernProphet]

LOL

I define atheism as - the belief that God (of any religion) does not exist.

You need only look at what Einstien said to know his beliefs, here are three examples








As i said, the word 'God' was used by Einstien to talk about nature and natural laws, it is nothing to do with an religious god.

Carl Sagan put it well, saying "If by 'God' you mean a set of physical laws* that govern the universe, then their clearly is a God. This God is emotionally unsatisfying...it does not make much sense to pray to gravity"

*As Einstein did.

The quote I provided obviously shows him to be a Deist, similar to Ben Franklin and Abe Lincoln....and a Deist is obviously not an atheist.....

[Noir]

what kind of answer do you want....you expect an answer that God makes things uglier and more hateful?.....I have answered he makes it less.....I know you don't like that answer, but who gives a fuck what you like, it's still a valid answer.....

I want an answer that is the truth. I know that Darwinism was largely reviled by the Chruch when it was brought out because it showed just how uncaring and violent nature is,

Interesting that you would say that the beautiful things that god are made are more beautiful, but that the horrid things that are made are not more horrid.

[PostmodernProphet]

I want an answer that is the truth. I know that Darwinism was largely reviled by the Chruch when it was brought out because it showed just how uncaring and violent nature is,

Interesting that you would say that the beautiful things that god are made are more beautiful, but that the horrid things that are made are not more horrid.

not to be unexpected at all.....in truth, it is consistent....he makes all things more beautiful....what could be more obvious......

[Noir]

The quote I provided obviously shows him to be a Deist, similar to Ben Franklin and Abe Lincoln....and a Deist is obviously not an atheist.....

You cleary have no clue if you are calling Einstien a Deist.

Lets go through this.

deism |ˈdēizəm|
noun
belief in the existence of a supreme being, specifically of a creator who does not intervene in the universe.

Einstien Quotes

-I do not believe in a personal God and I have never denied this but have expressed it clearly.
-I am a deeply religious nonbeliever. This is a somewhat new kind of religion.
-This is a genuinely religious feeling that has nothing to do with mysticism.

I think he's pretty clear in that.

What you quoted him as saying was about Spinoza's God, and that believing in Spinoza's God somehow makes him a Deist, either you know not know anything about Spinoza's God or you are deliberately trying to mislead. Spinoza's God is on of the laws of the nature of existance, infact it plays perfectly back into what i quoted before

"If by 'God' you mean a set of physical laws* that govern the universe, then their clearly is a God. This God is emotionally unsatisfying...it does not make much sense to pray to gravity"

*As Einstein did.

Only a fool would describe Einstein as religious, it is just unfortunate that he used the religious metaphor of god when talking about the Universe, and so those who want him to be religious will mis quote him, even though there are a dozen other quotes of him saying he is not religious and does not believe in super-nautral creatures or in anything that man can not explain through science.

[Pericles]

No, a beautiful sunset is beautiful whether a God has made it or not in my view.

This is perfectly to the point. Beauty that is contrived, rather than chanced upon, is not beauty but a put-up job and a sham. Beauty that we are compelled to recognize by the machinations of another mind, is the very opposite of beauty: in fact it can only be the destruction of all meaning. But Noir has put it best, above: if it's really beautiful, this is a fact that God has no power to decide for or against.

I said "how sad" because when i asked "Can you not find beauty in nature without attributing it to a god?" You said "no" meaning that you only find it beautiful because you think that a god made it, and not because it is beautiful. Quite ironic that you would then go on to ask me about things being 'less beautiful'

Again, perfectly put. Those who cannot recognize something beautiful for its own sake, but only on account of some other being's say-so, have no real appreciation of beauty at all.

The trouble you've been having with the believers in this thread, Noir, is that they are too blind - aesthetically, and yes, even spiritually - to see the plain truth of life. You're real young, but you get it. Cheers to you.

[PostmodernProphet]

Only a fool would describe Einstein as religious, it is just unfortunate that he used the religious metaphor of god when talking about the Universe, and so those who want him to be religious will mis quote him, even though there are a dozen other quotes of him saying he is not religious and does not believe in super-nautral creatures or in anything that man can not explain through science.

you confuse "theism" and "religious"......being non-religious in itself does not make you an atheist.....Franklin and Lincoln both rejected "religion" but acknowledged "deity"....as did Einstein....

Spinoza's God is on of the laws of the nature of existance, infact it plays perfectly back into what i quoted before

next I suspect you'll be telling me Spinoza was an atheist?.....you'll disappoint Shelley's God-intoxicated man if you do that.....