To folks who claim to be a "christian"

[-Cp]

What is it, exactly, that you are "Saved from"?

[crin63]

What is it, exactly, that you are "Saved from"?

The penalty of sins.

[Pericles]

What is it, exactly, that you are "Saved from"?

Great question.

[Pericles]

The penalty of sins.

This makes no sense. The wrong we have done, cannot be undone. The wrong that we have done, cannot be struck from our record, any more than it is possible to make what happened, to not have happened. If there is to be justice, we must face the consequences of our transgressions. Nothing and no one can cancel our responsibility. The penalty we face cannot be avoided. This is what freedom means.

[-Cp]

The penalty of sins.

You are? So.. if you go murder someone, do you not still have to face prison time?

[-Cp]

The penalty of sins.

And actually, you're not.... .

We all will die and in Romans 6:23 it says:

...the wages of sin is death..

None of us can escape that...

[PostmodernProphet]

And actually, you're not.... .

We all will die and in Romans 6:23 it says:

...the wages of sin is death..

None of us can escape that...

?......so, you only like half the sentence?.....how about "For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord."

which, by the way also serves as the answer to Perc's post....

[Noir]

Look its very simple.

You have to save yourself from the eternal fires of hell that you will be sent to unless you are forgiven for the sins which god put in you and which you can only have forgiven if you believe that he came to earth in order to have himself killed so that he may pay himself for the sin that he put in man with his own blood.
Simple

[PostmodernProphet]

why would you call a convoluted and confused misrepresentation "simple"?

[Noir]

why would you call a convoluted and confused misrepresentation "simple"?

Why would you make a random statement rather than point out which bits are convoluted and misrepresented?

You will go to hell if you are not forgiven your sins, yes?
You will have commited sins in your life because god gave you the ability and you can not live a sinless life, yes?
You have your sins forgiven by accepting Jesus, Yes?
And Jesus was god sent to earth in order to die, yes?

[PostmodernProphet]

Why would you make a random statement rather than point out which bits are convoluted and misrepresented?

okay....I will highlight the parts that are misrepresented in red....



You have to save yourself from the eternal fires of hell that you will be sent to unless you are forgiven for the sins which god put in you and which you can only have forgiven if you believe that he came to earth in order to have himself killed so that he may pay himself for the sin that he put in man with his own blood.

then I will put the convoluted parts in green...You have to save yourself from the eternal fires of hell that you will be sent to unless you are forgiven for the sins which god put in you and which you can only have forgiven if you believe that he came to earth in order to have himself killed so that he may pay himself for the sin that he put in man with his own blood.

You will go to hell if you are not forgiven your sins, yes?
You will have commited sins in your life because god gave you the ability and you can not live a sinless life, yes?
You have your sins forgiven by accepting Jesus, Yes?
And Jesus was god sent to earth in order to die, yes?

see, even you can tell it's much better when you leave out the misrepresentations and the convolutions.....

[Noir]

okay....I will highlight the parts that are misrepresented in red....



You have to save yourself from the eternal fires of hell that you will be sent to unless you are forgiven for the sins which god put in you and which you can only have forgiven if you believe that he came to earth in order to have himself killed so that he may pay himself for the sin that he put in man with his own blood.

then I will put the convoluted parts in green...You have to save yourself from the eternal fires of hell that you will be sent to unless you are forgiven for the sins which god put in you and which you can only have forgiven if you believe that he came to earth in order to have himself killed so that he may pay himself for the sin that he put in man with his own blood.

Good, thats step one, now explain the misrepresentations and thus we may discuss them
And its only convoluted because the whole bloomin thing is, i'm sure you must of realised the the 'Simple' was dripping in sarcasm.

[PostmodernProphet]

Good, thats step one, now explain the misrepresentations and thus we may discuss them
And its only convoluted because the whole bloomin thing is, i'm sure you must of realised the the 'Simple' was dripping in sarcasm.

let's start with the biggie.....
God does not put sin in us.....

[Noir]

let's start with the biggie.....
God does not put sin in us.....

But surly he gave us free will, no? By giving us free will he gave us the ability to commit sin, and the ability to commit sin is the power to commit sin. To put it another way, if god wanted us to not sin he would of made it so, instead he chose to put sin in us.

[DragonStryk72]

Why would you make a random statement rather than point out which bits are convoluted and misrepresented?

You will go to hell if you are not forgiven your sins, yes?
don't know, couldn't tell you anyhow if I did know

You will have commited sins in your life because god gave you the ability and you can not live a sinless life, yes?
God gave free will, just like we have alcohol. Neither one combines well with every single person on the planet.

You have your sins forgiven by accepting Jesus, Yes?

Nope, not that easy. See, first you have to mean it, second you have to actually be truly sorry for your sins, and you still have to deal with the consequences of those sins (No, coming to jesus does not give you a pass on murder or any other crime. Breaking man made law is likely to still result in fines, penalties, and/or jail. Christ deals more with the afterlife.)
And Jesus was god sent to earth in order to die, yes?

No, and yes. He actually never said he was God, actually. Six years of catholic school spent on that book, and I can tell you, he never once said he was God, only the Son of God, and he only copped to that one after he resurrected. He actually moved to stop his disciples from calling him the Messiah.

So, yeah, if you're going to start going at the bible, you should probably go ahead and read it first. You look like much less of an ass that way