Taliban High Commander Captured

[Kathianne]

Good news and questions:

http://legalinsurrection.blogspot.co...tured-now.html

Monday, February 15, 2010
Taliban Second-In-Command Captured, Now What?
Good news. The NY Times is reporting that the second in command of the Afghan Taliban, Mullah Baradar, has been captured in Pakistan.

The capture was undertaken by the Pakistanis with help from the CIA:
Details of the raid remain murky, but officials said that it had been carried out by Pakistan’s military spy agency, the Directorate for Inter-Services Intelligence, or ISI, and that C.I.A. operatives had accompanied the Pakistanis.

The New York Times learned of the operation on Thursday, but delayed reporting it at the request of White House officials, who contended that making it public would end a hugely successful intelligence-gathering effort. The officials said that the group’s leaders had been unaware of Mullah Baradar’s capture and that if it became public they might cover their tracks and become more careful about communicating with each other.

The Times is publishing the news now because White House officials acknowledged that the capture of Mullah Baradar was becoming widely known in the region.

According the The Times' report, Baradar is being interrogated by both Pakistanis and Americans. If that is true, that is more good news...

Did the U.S. deliberately not take possession of Baladar so as to avoid the now-thorny issue of Baradar's right to counsel and to remain silent?

And if so, what does that say about our policies regarding people, such as the failed Detroit airplane bomber, who are in our possession?...

[Jeff]

Good news and questions:

http://legalinsurrection.blogspot.co...tured-now.html

Hopefully the Pakistan’s military will keep him and get info from him, keep him away from Obama and the other bleeding hearts liberals in this country, If he came here he may be put on trial in NYC once his usefulness is all worn out then bring him here put him in time square with the survivors of 9/11 , that would be a real reality TV show

[Kathianne]

Hopefully the Pakistan’s military will keep him and get info from him, keep him away from Obama and the other bleeding hearts liberals in this country, If he came here he may be put on trial in NYC once his usefulness is all worn out then bring him here put him in time square with the survivors of 9/11 , that would be a real reality TV show

He's being questioned in Pakistan, I heard on my way to school that he's talking. The CIA is also involved. Isn't this 'rendition' in deed?

[Jeff]

He's being questioned in Pakistan, I heard on my way to school that he's talking. The CIA is also involved. Isn't this 'rendition' in deed?

LOL, I bet he is talking, NO Obama screaming about the poor guys rights, LOL

[Kathianne]

LOL, I bet he is talking, NO Obama screaming about the poor guys rights, LOL

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Jeff again.

Yeah, somehow I doubt Pakistan is going to lose sleep over his rights.

[Jeff]

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Jeff again.

Yeah, somehow I doubt Pakistan is going to lose sleep over his rights.

I have a feeling he is more than happy at this point to spill his guts, maybe for real

[crin63]

Might have to give Obama props over this one. It appears he is letting the Pakistani's and CIA do their jobs without mirandizing the terrorist. Although Obama will probably find a place for him to teach somewhere in the U.S.

[revelarts]

Alright, I'll be the spoiler here, sorry.
I've got my own question for you folks.

Are We at war with the Taliban as "terrorist" or "insurgents"?
If they are fighting for national control of the country are they terrorist, insurgents or soldiers. If soldiers then they are due all the rights and privileges of our own solders under the Geneva convention? It looks likes the CIA and ISI have got that guy so it's not really a military mission strictly speaking. It's an intelligence op. Which is to get intel not necessarily get a conviction. However if he's a leader in a war over control of Afghanistan then he can be held until the wars over. But it seems that the CIA/ISI have Rendered the guy. Something we said we weren't going to do anymore. (Promise broken #??? Obama.) But the U.S. military's hands are clean at this point. And the good old CIA is doing ??? in our name.

There have been more than enough military and intelligence people that have said torture is counter productive. Including John McCain. Should we at this point be getting excited about prisoners getting roughed up. I know on a visceral level we want to get back at those that have been fighting our soldiers. But to my knowledge the Taliban never blew up anything outside of Afghanistan and Pakistan. Are we turning into the barbarians what we say we are better than?
I ask the Christians here again. Please give me some torture scriptures to support the idea that it's the best thing to do to our enemies?

[Abbey Marie]

Alright, I'll be the spoiler here, sorry.
I've got my own question for you folks.

Are We at war with the Taliban as "terrorist" or "insurgents"?
If they are fighting for national control of the country are they terrorist, insurgents or soldiers. If soldiers then they are due all the rights and privileges of our own solders under the Geneva convention? It looks likes the CIA and ISI have got that guy so it's not really a military mission strictly speaking. It's an intelligence op. Which is to get intel not necessarily get a conviction. However if he's a leader in a war over control of afghanistan then he can be held until the wars over. But it seems that the CIA/ISI haved a Rendered the guy. Something we said we weren't going to do anymore. (Promise broken #??? Obama.) But the U.S. military's hands are clean at this point. And the good old CIA is doing ??? in our name.

There have been more than enough military and intelligence people that have said torture is counter productive. Including John McCain. Should we at this point be getting excited about prisoners getting roughed up. I know on a visceral level we want to get back at those that have been fighting our soldiers. But to my knowledge the Taliban never blew up anything outside of Afghanistan and Pakistan. Are we turning into the barbarians what we say we are better than?
I ask the Christians here again. Please give me some torture scriptures to support the idea that it's the best thing to do to our enemies?

Ah, the Christians again. Its utterly amazing how religion (read: Christian religion) is supposed to be kept totally separate from government, until it is handy to throw it in the mix. No Nativities in the town square, but let's hold Christians responsible for gov't policy. Oy vey.

[revelarts]

I support nativity scenes on public property.

But that's not the question? I honestly wonder how some of my brothers and sister square the notion of torturing or roughing up prisoners with the Bible and church teachings?

I know of a few people personally that are, frankly, more republican than Christian on many issues. But there are many liberal Christians who are more democrats than Christians too on a lot of issues as well.

but I'm only asking a very simply question. I'm not blaming Christians for torture just asking how they can support it or promote it. And some gleefully so.

[Mr. P]

Alright, I'll be the spoiler here, sorry.
I've got my own question for you folks.

Are We at war with the Taliban as "terrorist" or "insurgents"?
If they are fighting for national control of the country are they terrorist, insurgents or soldiers. If soldiers then they are due all the rights and privileges of our own solders under the Geneva convention? It looks likes the CIA and ISI have got that guy so it's not really a military mission strictly speaking. It's an intelligence op. Which is to get intel not necessarily get a conviction. However if he's a leader in a war over control of Afghanistan then he can be held until the wars over. But it seems that the CIA/ISI have Rendered the guy. Something we said we weren't going to do anymore. (Promise broken #??? Obama.) But the U.S. military's hands are clean at this point. And the good old CIA is doing ??? in our name.

There have been more than enough military and intelligence people that have said torture is counter productive. Including John McCain. Should we at this point be getting excited about prisoners getting roughed up. I know on a visceral level we want to get back at those that have been fighting our soldiers. But to my knowledge the Taliban never blew up anything outside of Afghanistan and Pakistan. Are we turning into the barbarians what we say we are better than?
I ask the Christians here again. Please give me some torture scriptures to support the idea that it's the best thing to do to our enemies?

Lemme ax you a question and see if you can answer without reference to any scriptures: If a member of you immediate family, child, wife, were say, kidnapped and the kidnapper was caught and revealed that the member of your family was buried and had 24 hrs of air and there was about 12 hrs left, but wouldn't tell were they were buried. What interrogation technique would you use to find the site your family member is buried at before they ran out of air?

Personally, I'd water board the bastard..How about you?

[Abbey Marie]

I support nativity scenes on public property.

But that's not the question? I honestly wonder how some of my brothers and sister square the notion of torturing or roughing up prisoners with the Bible and church teachings?

I know of a few people personally that are, frankly, more republican than Christian on many issues. But there are many liberal Christians who are more democrats than Christians too on a lot of issues as well.

but I'm only asking a very simply question. I'm not blaming Christians for torture just asking how they can support it or promote it. And some gleefully so.

I am saying that whether I promote/support it or not, has nothing to do with my religion. My religion is not a part of gov't; it is a wholly separate thing, not to be uttered in the same breath. Isn't that correct? For example, my taxes may go to fund abortions, though I am vehemently opposed to them. It matters not what I "believe" regarding abortions. We are told time and again, right here on this board, too, that my religious beliefs and values must be irrelevant to our gov't. The ACLU has taught me that oh so well. So, if our gov't chooses to torture, it must be no concern to us as Christians. You cannot have it both ways.

[revelarts]

Lemme ax you a question and see if you can answer without reference to any scriptures: If a member of you immediate family, child, wife, were say, kidnapped and the kidnapper was caught and revealed that the member of your family was buried and had 24 hrs of air and there was about 12 hrs left, but wouldn't tell were they were buried. What interrogation technique would you use to find the site your family member is buried at before they ran out of air?

Personally, I'd water board the bastard..How about you?

Mr. P.
I asked you guys a question 1st. These worse case, ticking time bomb, scenarios keep coming up. But does the guy the CIA/ISI just captured fall into that category. No one's mentioned a time bomb once in the case of this Afghan leader. But torture has still been promoted and cheered here as the way to go. So is the ticking time bomb, loss of air, type scenario really the ONLY "good" reason you think there is to torture someone?

In the case you outline above I might do worse than water board, if in my blind rage i thought it might save them, which it may not. But c'mon honestly Mr. P events like that are rarer than Hailey's comet.

I've axswered your question please answer mine?

[Mr. P]

Mr. P.
I asked you guys a question 1st. These worse case ticking time bomb scenario keeps coming up. But does the guy the CIA/ISI just captured fall into that category. No one's mentioned it once in the case of this Afghan leader. But torture has still been promoted and cheered here as the way to go. So is the ticking time bomb, loss of air, type scenario really the ONLY "good" reason you think there is to torture someone?

In the case you outline above I might do worse than water board, if in my blind rage i thought it might save them, which it may not. But c'mon honestly Mr. P events like that are rarer than Hailey's comet.

I've axswered your question please answer mine?

I answered, I'd water board. Been there and have had it done to me...You? IT'S NOT torture. But it is 100% DAMN effective! That's my scripture on it.

[hjmick]

They caught a guy who has been living openly in Karachi for a while now. I'm not impressed.