Christian faith: Calvinism is back

[SassyLady]

God loves all, but He expects us to come to Him on His terms, not our own.

According to your belief system. In mine I have always been with God and there is no "come to him on his terms".

I would not speak to freely about God not being vengeful either, as He has a righteous vengeance on those who deny Him.

Once again this is what you've been taught and believe. I choose to not believe it.

Which of us do you think goes through their day happier and more relaxed....you, who fears upsetting God or me, who knows that my God realizes we all make mistakens and loves me anyway.

Directions to San Jose as Metaphor for finding way to God.

A woman once asked God how to get to San Jose and he showed her a couple of ways to get from here to there. When asked what would happen if jshe took the first way he said there will be many traffic problems and delays. And the second way? No traffic but twice as long and you will have to leave early and spend most of the day getting there. Either way, you will get there. It is your choice. She knew she wanted to get to San Jose and made the choice about what she was willing to experience on the way. But who really cares which way she went other than her. Why is it our duty to convince her that one way is better than the other?

Coming to terms with God is like getting to San Jose. There are different ways and it is our choice how to get there as long as we stay on track to where we know we want to be. And, I'm sure there'll be people on the way that only heard God telling us how to use the first route and what we would have to deal with to get there...(my scriptures vs your scriptures, etc.) .....and there are people who heard the second way and think it would be stupid for anyone to pass up the relaxation just in order to get there earlier. Neither way is incorrect....it's just what kind of journey do you want for yourself on the way.

[BoogyMan]

According to your belief system. In mine I have always been with God and there is no "come to him on his terms".




Once again this is what you've been taught and believe. I choose to not believe it.

Which of us do you think goes through their day happier and more relaxed....you, who fears upsetting God or me, who knows that my God realizes we all make mistakens and loves me anyway.

Directions to San Jose as Metaphor for finding way to God.

A woman once asked God how to get to San Jose and he showed her a couple of ways to get from here to there. When asked what would happen if jshe took the first way he said there will be many traffic problems and delays. And the second way? No traffic but twice as long and you will have to leave early and spend most of the day getting there. Either way, you will get there. It is your choice. She knew she wanted to get to San Jose and made the choice about what she was willing to experience on the way. But who really cares which way she went other than her. Why is it our duty to convince her that one way is better than the other?

Coming to terms with God is like getting to San Jose. There are different ways and it is our choice how to get there as long as we stay on track to where we know we want to be. And, I'm sure there'll be people on the way that only heard God telling us how to use the first route and what we would have to deal with to get there...(my scriptures vs your scriptures, etc.) .....and there are people who heard the second way and think it would be stupid for anyone to pass up the relaxation just in order to get there earlier. Neither way is incorrect....it's just what kind of journey do you want for yourself on the way.

Kind lady, you are not arguing with me, you are denying scripture and therefore your argument is with God, not me.

John 14:6 points out the fact that there is but one way, truth, and life, and that no-one comes to the father except through Christ. I would also ask you to consider what proverbs 1:7 has to say about the fear of the lord.

[darin]

Christ showed his love for a reason. That is to make a way of salvation for man. There is no addition being made, just a repeating of what the Bible already teaches.

Man is not saved against his will, he has to desire salvation.

Christ 'saved' people long before the Bible was written. He left countless to their own devices in terms of 'growing' as a Christian. I'd doubt any of Christ's disciples had access to scripture other than the OT. My point is - When Christ healed somebody's heart - he gave them no instruction on behavior except something like "...and cut that shit out."

There's a solid argument made saying just as I had no real say in the sin Adam and Eve brought to my human nature - I had no choice - Christ served as the substitutional atonement regardless if I desire it or not.

Fodder for a different thread I suppose.

[BoogyMan]

Christ 'saved' people long before the Bible was written. He left countless to their own devices in terms of 'growing' as a Christian. I'd doubt any of Christ's disciples had access to scripture other than the OT. My point is - When Christ healed somebody's heart - he gave them no instruction on behavior except something like "...and cut that shit out."

There's a solid argument made saying just as I had no real say in the sin Adam and Eve brought to my human nature - I had no choice - Christ served as the substitutional atonement regardless if I desire it or not.

Fodder for a different thread I suppose.

I would enjoy that discussion as I completely disagree that man has a sinful nature, especially in light of the fact that God looked at what he created and called it good.

[PostmodernProphet]

That is true - some don't love the creator but the creator is not vindictive or vengeful and doesn't need our love to be complete or to love us. It truly is unconditional love.

the way I figure, there is a God described in the Bible who has been quite specific about what he expects of us.....I figure it makes sense that if you want to be in the paradise described by the God in the Bible then you have to do what he expects......if you want to make your own path to a God who isn't described in the Bible, then you either have to take your chances that he has a "heaven" too or make your own, along with the path....

It may suck, but it is true....

only if you buy into "might makes right"....

- I had no choice - Christ served as the substitutional atonement regardless if I desire it or not.

you can refuse the substitutional atonement.....it's what every person who states "I do not believe in Christ" does.....

[SassyLady]

Kind lady, you are not arguing with me, you are denying scripture and therefore your argument is with God, not me.

John 14:6 points out the fact that there is but one way, truth, and life, and that no-one comes to the father except through Christ. I would also ask you to consider what proverbs 1:7 has to say about the fear of the lord.

Kind gentleman .... you are right....I am not arguing with you. I am stating what my belief system is (based upon my readings) and you are stating what your belief system is (based upon your readings).

However, I find it interesting that when talking about belief systems you always revert to quoting "scripture" from a book that was written by men ages ago.....as if it's the only time God has ever communicated with man, and yet you dismiss the same premise when I use it.

I have no argument with God .... he spoke with the people you choose to believe and he spoke to the people I choose to believe. He told you what you need to hear and he has told me what I need to hear.

Who cares how we get to San Jose, as long as we both get there?

[revelarts]

Kind gentleman .... you are right....I am not arguing with you. I am stating what my belief system is (based upon my readings) and you are stating what your belief system is (based upon your readings).

However, I find it interesting that when talking about belief systems you always revert to quoting "scripture" from a book that was written by men ages ago.....as if it's the only time God has ever communicated with man, and yet you dismiss the same premise when I use it.

I have no argument with God .... he spoke with the people you choose to believe and he spoke to the people I choose to believe. He told you what you need to hear and he has told me what I need to hear.

Who cares how we get to San Jose, as long as we both get there?

I take it you have some regard for the words of Jesus. I'd be very careful before i decided that other teachers word superseded his.
He said:
Matthew 7:13-15
You enter in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leads to destruction, and many there be which go in that way:
Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leads unto life, and few there be that find it.
Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.

[SassyLady]

the way I figure, there is a God described in the Bible who has been quite specific about what he expects of us.....I figure it makes sense that if you want to be in the paradise described by the God in the Bible then you have to do what he expects......if you want to make your own path to a God who isn't described in the Bible, then you either have to take your chances that he has a "heaven" too or make your own, along with the path....

Bingo!!


As for an alternate heaven .... remember, I don't believe in heaven or hell nor do I believe God is as described in the Bible. I guess I've read too many other sources to believe the Bible is the be all/end all regarding God.

[SassyLady]

I take it you have some regard for the words of Jesus. I'd be very careful before i decided that other teachers word superseded his.

I regard the words written in the Bible the same as I do words written anywhere. Do the words resonate with me or not? If they do then I put more emphasis on them than others. The words of the Bible do not resonate with me as much as words from other sources.

Here is an example of what resonates with me:

New Revelation #3 says "No path to God is more direct than any other path. No religion is the one true religion. No people are the chosen people and no prophet is the greatest prophet." Now what would happen in the world today if the world simply embraced that new notion and nothing else new, just that one? If we just simply embraced that one as the one new concept that we chose to add to our old religions it would open the way for each of us to express and to experience our own religion as fully as we are today but simply stop us from making each other wrong and condemning each other for not doing their religion the same way we do ours.

http://www.iloveulove.com/spirituali...ggodsaveme.htm

[-Cp]

you can refuse the substitutional atonement.....it's what every person who states "I do not believe in Christ" does.....

So by that logic, then even demons are saved, right? I mean, after all, they "Believe in Him and tremble"..

[darin]

I take it you have some regard for the words of Jesus. I'd be very careful before i decided that other teachers word superseded his.
He said:
Matthew 7:13-15
You enter in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leads to destruction, and many there be which go in that way:
Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leads unto life, and few there be that find it.
Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.

I know folk who throw out that scripture against anyone who doesn't agree with them.

I think it's healthy to think on a few things:

1) Is our love for the Bible limiting what God can do? (Id est, Is God BIGGER than the Bible or the other way around?)
2) Did the early church suffer by not having a Bible?
3) Did early Christians fail to "grow in Christ" without a Bible?
4) Did the early church, without a Bible, have it MORE or LESS right than the mega-church organizations we have today?

[bullypulpit]

<center><h1>BRRRRRRAAAAAAP!</h1></center>

[bullypulpit]

<center><img src=http://forcomradesandlovers.files.wordpress.com/2009/11/calvin.jpg?w=300&h=225</center>

<center><h1>ALL CAVINISTS WILL BOW DOWN AND WORSHIP THE GREAT AND MIGHTY CALVIN IF THEY KNOW WHAT'S GOOD FOR THEM!</h1></center>

[bullypulpit]

the way I figure, there is a God described in the Bible who has been quite specific about what he expects of us.....I figure it makes sense that if you want to be in the paradise described by the God in the Bible then you have to do what he expects......if you want to make your own path to a God who isn't described in the Bible, then you either have to take your chances that he has a "heaven" too or make your own, along with the path....

Ummm...How did God make his wishes known and to whom did (s)he make these wishes known?

[PostmodernProphet]

So by that logic, then even demons are saved, right? I mean, after all, they "Believe in Him and tremble"..

no, believing he exists and believing in him as your savior are distinguishable....