"Fast and Furious"

[Kathianne]

Looking to break into major scandal for the administration. I posted about it here:

http://www.debatepolicy.com/showthre...g-present-laws

But now major media have picked up:

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000...276380486.html

JUNE 20, 2011

A Drug-War Plan Goes Awry
Frustrated ATF agents testify that their bureau's 'Operation Fast and Furious' let weapons get into the hands of Mexican drug cartels.

By MARY ANASTASIA O'GRADY

One of the frightening things about the U.S. government's war on drugs is that it is being waged by federal bureaucracies. The legend of Elliot Ness notwithstanding, this implies that it is not only fraught with ineptitude but that before it is all over, there are going to be a lot of avoidable deaths.

Witness "Operation Fast and Furious," a Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms plan that allegedly facilitated the flow of high-powered weapons into Mexico in the hope that it might lead to the take-down of a major cartel. It did not. But it may have fueled a spike in the murder rate and led to the death of U.S. Border Patrol agent Brian Terry...

...One agent described his frustration: "Every day being out here watching a guy go into the same gun store buying another 15 or 20 AK-47s or variants or . . . five or tenDraco pistols or FN Five-seveNs . . . guys that don't have a job, and he is walking in here spending $27,000 for three Barrett .50 calibers . . . and you are sitting there every day and you can't do anything." Agents say that their concerns, expressed to supervisors, were rebuffed. There was even a threat of dismissal if they didn't get with the program.

At the same time, violence was spiking in Mexico. In an email dated April 2, 2010, the group's supervisor reported that in the month of March "our subjects" had purchased 359 firearms and that 958 people were killed in Mexico in drug violence. It was the bloodiest month since 2005 and included 11 policemen in the state of Sinaloa. As another agent interviewed for the staff report said: "We were all sick to death when we realized . . . what was going on or when we saw what was going on by the trends. We were all just, yes, we were all distraught."

Well, not all. The agents interviewed say supervisors viewed the bloodshed with chilling indifference—or worse. As the report summarizes, "An increase of crimes and deaths in Mexico caused an increase in the recovery of weapons at crime scenes. When these weapons traced back through the Suspect Gun Database to weapons that were walked under Fast and Furious, supervisors in Phoenix were giddy at the success of their operation."

...

[avatar4321]

I think some heads need to roll on this one. This is the first thing Ive seen that could be considered an impeachable offense. (No point to impeachment in this political environment though).

The fact is if the Administration has been shipping weapons to drug lords, they are responsible, in part, as accessories to any murders committed by these drug lords.

i hope whomever is running against Obama makes some ads concerning this.

[fj1200]

This is the first thing Ive seen that could be considered an impeachable offense.

How so? This may be an example of the blithering incompetence that we've all come to know and expect but not exactly a high crime or misdemeanor.

[revelarts]

How so? This may be an example of the blithering incompetence that we've all come to know and expect but not exactly a high crime or misdemeanor.

And FJ we Are Back to old debate, Incompetence vs Planned criminality.
I'd vote for Both here but Bet the planned part was higher up the food chain.
the war on drugs is beyond a joke its a crime.

there are people in the FBI, DIA and ATF even parts of the U.S. military -COUGHGARYNORTHCOUGH- that work with the Cartels. It's just a fact, and things like this are sometimes cover for getting drugs or guns into the dealers/cartels hands.

[fj1200]

And FJ we Are Back to old debate, Incompetence vs Planned criminality.
I'd vote for Both here but Bet the planned part was higher up the food chain.

Voting should take care of the former and legalities (impeachment if you're the POTUS or such) the latter.

You can have the rest of your post.

[revelarts]

The corruption might go all the way to Obama , but the people below him in command positions where there before he got there.

as for the second half of my post



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[Kathianne]

Seems this is getting steadier legs. I'm going to start a new thread, too many irrelevant videos and such now on this one.

[revelarts]

Well since your going to post elses where I'll post abit more on the bigger picture about your story of Guns Drugs and the US gov't complicity.


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[revelarts]

Link to a clip from the film the "lord of war"


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[LuvRPgrl]

The people involved in the "war on drugs" have a steady paycheck, are given a great amount of power, and I mean the physical type along with the political type, and those involved in the "boots on the ground" part, are infused with an adrenalin rush on a regular basis and get paid for it. Its something they are not going to let go of easily and will do anything and everything they can to keep the public believing the bullcrap notion that making drugs legal will be bad for our country.

Even if there was to be a slight rise in users, it would more than easily be offset by other gains of making it legal. The gains are huge, and we arent even sure if the numbers will rise, or rise significantly, as to the numbers of users.

And comparing it to booze, its a completely different animal. Booze is always made by man, drugs are often grown, hence booze can be homemade as easily as it can be in other countries, but growing poppies, and pot, etc. in the US is not nearly as easy as growing it say, in afghanastan or columbia.

Also, the use of booze was widespread for as long as man existed before it was made illegal. Drugs widespread usage didnt occur until after they were made illegal.

Lastly, people are more likely to die from drug usage, although making it legal probably wont increase those numbers, but they use it as an emotional ploy to keep voters afraid of the idea of legalizing drugs.

Looking to break into major scandal for the administration. I posted about it here:

http://www.debatepolicy.com/showthre...g-present-laws

But now major media have picked up:

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000...276380486.html

[Kathianne]

why am i not surprised at those that aren't understanding what the heck is going on here?

I felt the same in 1973, when so many didn't understand what the WaPo was publishing. Folks, there is a problem.

[revelarts]

Sorry Kath It's just to me as Gaffer (I think) said in the other thread about this. i don't think this is going to go anywhere.
I think there are other issues that have been as big or bigger that haven't changed a thing. the Iran Contra hearing ,
the Drug side,
showed that there was drugs for arms deals going on with IRAN no less. but many of the players went right on with there carrers.
Many are still darlings of the right. ANd the Left never pursued it further. That in contrast to the idea of the left supposed unending hatred of the right.
Nope, the power elite D&R might throw a few players to the dogs but the game goes on.

I don't see this has hurting much of anyone, just another small surface bubble of the cancer of the U.S. gov't complicity in the drug and illegal arms trade.

may sound outrageous to you but I challenge to read a bit on the subject before you dismiss the idea.

[LuvRPgrl]

Ironically enough, you made another thread where it is titled, "some things need to be MADE IN THE USA. Arms is one of our largest export, made in the USA.

Looking to break into major scandal for the administration. I posted about it here:

http://www.debatepolicy.com/showthre...g-present-laws

But now major media have picked up:

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000...276380486.html

[Kathianne]

Nothing ironic with either post.

[LuvRPgrl]

Nothing ironic with either post.

Mind you, Im not saying that because the arms are made in the USA, and it helps our economy, that that is any reason to support what happened.