Tell me about your Alcoholic Relatives

[Sweetchuck]

I think she means ok as in 'ok, whatever'. Generally, it's been my experience that addicts can justify their behavior to themselves pretty good, and generally disagree with the overall definition of 'addict' because they can't identify with it, yet.

What do YOU mean by subjective?

Well, at the other end of the spectrum, there are people who will play the "alcoholic" card when anyone who takes a drink. Alcoholics, racists, liberals, conservatives - what defines them is often where you stand on the issue.

It's like anything else including political opinions, you can go way too deep off of either end and few people want to stay in the rational, logical area of moderation.

[Said1]

Well, at the other end of the spectrum, there are people who will play the "alcoholic" card when anyone who takes a drink. Alcoholics, racists, liberals, conservatives - what defines them is often where you stand on the issue.

It's like anything else including political opinions, you can go way too deep off of either end and few people want to stay in the rational, logical area of moderation.

Then I'd say you don't have much experience with addicts. Either way, people are able to justify the things they do and think to themselves in order to absolve themselves from taking any kind of responsibility, or to make it 'right', so I guess it's subjective to them. But I suppose I do that with various things in my life as well, right?

Of course there is various degrees with which people identify themselves as anything, but from the outside looking in, an addict is an addict and a racist is a racist etc etc. It's only subjective to those who deny it to themselves or about others close to them. This isn't really about politics anyway, its about addiction.

[Sweetchuck]

Then I'd say you don't have much experience with addicts. Either way, people are able to justify the things they do and think to themselves in order to absolve themselves from taking any kind of responsibility, or to make it 'right', so I guess it's subjective to them. But I suppose I do that with various things in my life as well, right?

Of course there is various degrees with which people identify themselves as anything, but from the outside looking in, an addict is an addict and a racist is a racist etc etc. It's only subjective to those who deny it to themselves or about others close to them. This isn't really about politics anyway, its about addiction.

Who said anything about my experience with alcoholics, and why would that be important?

Anyway, let's go back to the original questions, this is starting to veer wildly off track. What is your definition of an alcoholic (addict)? What traits, symptoms do they display which define their condition?

[Said1]

Who said anything about my experience with alcoholics, and why would that be important?

ok.

Anyway, let's go back to the original questions, this is starting to veer wildly off track. What is your definition of an alcoholic (addict)? What traits, symptoms do they display which define their condition?

Try google.

[Sweetchuck]

ok.



Try google.

I guess I'll have to continue this discussion with Google.

[DragonStryk72]

I guess I'll have to continue this discussion with Google.

Actually, no, I think I'll pick it up here, and I'll use two examples from my own family. My little brother Michael works with a man from the Middle East originally who is always offering wine to brother, and this led to Michael getting slightly drunk on a near daily basis. He realized this, and stopped immediately, giving up all alcohol for a time, then went back to normal amounts of drinking. It was nothing huge to him, but he didn't like the cycle that was showing up. That is not an addict.

My dad, now, when he was drinking, he was drinking heavily pretty much every day without anyone offering him anything, and in some cases, directly advising against it. He was down to drinking the cheapest shit beer he could find, simply because he could get the most bang for his buck, when he goes, "Pat, you're drinkin' too god damn much." He passed out in the bar just after saying this. After he sobered up a little bit, he knew he had to make a change, but didn't want to give up alcohol cold turkey, of course. So he sees these people sipping wine, and goes, "You know, you always see people sipping wine, that's what I need to do. I won't drink as much or as fast, and the wine's not as bad as the beer."

From there, he nearly drowned himself in wine. When he did finally get help, he hit hard withdrawal symptoms (bladder problems, shakes, migraines, even some hallucinations) for a long time, and even once he was done with that, knowing everything drinking had cost him, he could feel it in him that he still... want isn't the right word... had to have a drink. he's been sober 3 decades now, and he can still feel that need within him at times, not to drink, but to get horribly drunk.

To go another route, my sister is a bartender in Brooklyn, and she drinks, as does my mom. Both have been drunk a number of times, some of them together, but they are always with people they know they can trust, and it is something they reserve for every so often, as opposed to anything more problematic.

"Moderation is a wonderful thing, if taken in moderation."

Growing up in recovery, I've seen a wide variety of addicts, and it's given me, I believe, a better illustration between what a regular drinker is, what a drunk is, and what an alcoholic is.

[Sweetchuck]

Actually, no, I think I'll pick it up here, and I'll use two examples from my own family. My little brother Michael works with a man from the Middle East originally who is always offering wine to brother, and this led to Michael getting slightly drunk on a near daily basis. He realized this, and stopped immediately, giving up all alcohol for a time, then went back to normal amounts of drinking. It was nothing huge to him, but he didn't like the cycle that was showing up. That is not an addict.

My dad, now, when he was drinking, he was drinking heavily pretty much every day without anyone offering him anything, and in some cases, directly advising against it. He was down to drinking the cheapest shit beer he could find, simply because he could get the most bang for his buck, when he goes, "Pat, you're drinkin' too god damn much." He passed out in the bar just after saying this. After he sobered up a little bit, he knew he had to make a change, but didn't want to give up alcohol cold turkey, of course. So he sees these people sipping wine, and goes, "You know, you always see people sipping wine, that's what I need to do. I won't drink as much or as fast, and the wine's not as bad as the beer."

From there, he nearly drowned himself in wine. When he did finally get help, he hit hard withdrawal symptoms (bladder problems, shakes, migraines, even some hallucinations) for a long time, and even once he was done with that, knowing everything drinking had cost him, he could feel it in him that he still... want isn't the right word... had to have a drink. he's been sober 3 decades now, and he can still feel that need within him at times, not to drink, but to get horribly drunk.

To go another route, my sister is a bartender in Brooklyn, and she drinks, as does my mom. Both have been drunk a number of times, some of them together, but they are always with people they know they can trust, and it is something they reserve for every so often, as opposed to anything more problematic.

"Moderation is a wonderful thing, if taken in moderation."

Growing up in recovery, I've seen a wide variety of addicts, and it's given me, I believe, a better illustration between what a regular drinker is, what a drunk is, and what an alcoholic is.

Thank you.

I always considered my dad to be an alcoholic. I remember when he was younger, he would drink a lot. Whiskey, beer - daily. He slowed down over time and he's stopped drinking all together. I'm not sure why.

It's a very complicated issue and I don't claim to know the correct definition, but I get skeptical when people start using 'alcoholic' as a label.

[DragonStryk72]

Thank you.

I always considered my dad to be an alcoholic. I remember when he was younger, he would drink a lot. Whiskey, beer - daily. He slowed down over time and he's stopped drinking all together. I'm not sure why.

It's a very complicated issue and I don't claim to know the correct definition, but I get skeptical when people start using 'alcoholic' as a label.

Yeah, that sounds more like a drunk, and not an alcoholic, but the only way to tell the difference, honestly, is to look at what happens when the alcohol goes away.

For those that don't know what we're discussing, it breaks down like this: a drunk may be drunk quite a bit of the time, but if it comes to it, he can just stop. For an alcoholic, they really can't, mentally they are simply completely hooked, and their bodies end up going through actual withdrawal if they do stop.

[Binky]

In my mind this is what I think an alcoholic is: Someone who would rather spend countless hours in a relationship with a bottle of booze, whether it be beer, wine, whiskey etc, than they do with their family and friends. They will carry on that relationship at home, alone, or in a bar, where everyone can see how that relationship is going.......

[DragonStryk72]

In my mind this is what I think an alcoholic is: Someone who would rather spend countless hours in a relationship with a bottle of booze, whether it be beer, wine, whiskey etc, than they do with their family and friends. They will carry on that relationship at home, alone, or in a bar, where everyone can see how that relationship is going.......

Actually, my dad hated alcohol, and years spent watching AA has taught me that this holds true for most alcoholics. It isn't a matter of what they would rather be doing, that is one of the basics of addiction, because most would rather be able to carry on normally, to be able to walk away from that bottle, but they cannot, not that they don't want to.

I think they know on a deep level that the alcohol is destroying them, and the life around them, but they simply have no power over the decision.

[chloe]

I'm on vacation this week with my family and there is this member who has done nothing but sit on the beach and guzzle massive amounts of beer.

... wait, that's me.

Anyway, how do you define alcoholic? Like racist, it's a very subjective term.

Here's a net dictionary definition.

habitual intoxication; prolonged and excessive intake of alcoholic drinks leading to a breakdown in health and an addiction to alcohol such that abrupt deprivation leads to severe withdrawal symptoms
dipsomania: an intense persistent desire to drink alcoholic beverages to excess



In my family my sister throws up blood but still keeps drinking, if i didn't go get booze at the liquor store she shakes and throws up.
My dad does the same thing, plus he has violent rages and conveniantly forgets things he says and does when intoxicated, but he still keeps on drinking. So in my mind he's an alcoholic.

[Pagan]

Here's a net dictionary definition.

habitual intoxication; prolonged and excessive intake of alcoholic drinks leading to a breakdown in health and an addiction to alcohol such that abrupt deprivation leads to severe withdrawal symptoms
dipsomania: an intense persistent desire to drink alcoholic beverages to excess

In my family my sister throws up blood but still keeps drinking, if i didn't go get booze at the liquor store she shakes and throws up.
My dad does the same thing, plus he has violent rages and conveniantly forgets things he says and does when intoxicated, but he still keeps on drinking. So in my mind he's an alcoholic.

Yep, my Step Father was a raging Alcoholic, went through hell with it. But he eventually got his shit together and dried up, last 30 years of his life he was dry.

Do I get drunk, yeah 'bout once or twice a year but not falling down puke on yourself drunk. But every now and again I get drunk to remind myself why I don't drink

[chloe]

Yep, my Step Father was a raging Alcoholic, went through hell with it. But he eventually got his shit together and dried up, last 30 years of his life he was dry.

Do I get drunk, yeah 'bout once or twice a year but not falling down puke on yourself drunk. But every now and again I get drunk to remind myself why I don't drink

Your not an alcoholic, did your step dad go to AA or just stop drinking?

[Pagan]

Your not an alcoholic, did your step dad go to AA or just stop drinking?

He was ordered by the courts to go when he damn near killed me, that failed. He went back on the sauce for a couple of years then he just quit, did it himself. After a couple years dry I started visiting him and we had a good relationship for the next 30+ years when he was dry. He was a damn good man sober, simple Redneck in a small Redneck town (my roots).

Anyway AA helps some people, some people are better off on their own for they just need to hit bottom. That bottom is different for everyone, but once they hit it and decide ON THEIR OWN to clean themselves up it works. But the problem is we never know where that bottom is, so all you can do is not enable them to continue on with the addiction but be there when they are ready to rebuild.

[chloe]

He was ordered by the courts to go when he damn near killed me, that failed. He went back on the sauce for a couple of years then he just quit, did it himself. After a couple years dry I started visiting him and we had a good relationship for the next 30+ years when he was dry. He was a damn good man sober, simple Redneck in a small Redneck town (my roots).

Anyway AA helps some people, some people are better off on their own for they just need to hit bottom. That bottom is different for everyone, but once they hit it and decide ON THEIR OWN to clean themselves up it works. But the problem is we never know where that bottom is, so all you can do is not enable them to continue on with the addiction but be there when they are ready to rebuild.

Yeah I don't talk to either one of them anymore I got sick of there shit, they have done really jacked up things, unforgiveable even sober. I don't drink I used to with them but I quit and I stayed sober and they didnt. Oh I like rednecks where are you from?