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    Default Of the Bill of Rights?

    I see new stuff every day where the Bill of Rights are being picked apart.

    Just making a place for me to drop some of the info.

    <object width="640" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/ROmD64hrv9c&rel=0&border=1&color1=0xb1b1b1&color2= 0xd0d0d0&hl=en_US&feature=player_embedded&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowScriptAccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/ROmD64hrv9c&rel=0&border=1&color1=0xb1b1b1&color2= 0xd0d0d0&hl=en_US&feature=player_embedded&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" allowScriptAccess="always" width="640" height="385"></embed></object>
    It is proper to take alarm at the first experiment on our liberties. The freeman of America did not wait till usurped power had strengthened itself by exercise, and entangled the question in precedents. James Madison
    Live as free people, yet without employing your freedom as a pretext for wickedness; but live at all times as servants of God.
    1 Peter 2:16

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    Can you give us a summary? I can't see videos due to a firewall at work.

    (Yeah, I know, get to work you lazy bum!)
    "The social contract exists so that everyone doesn’t have to squat in the dust holding a spear to protect his woman and his meat all day every day. It does not exist so that the government can take your spear, your meat, and your woman because it knows better what to do with them." - Instapundit.com

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    Quote Originally Posted by Little-Acorn View Post
    Can you give us a summary? I can't see videos due to a firewall at work.

    (Yeah, I know, get to work you lazy bum!)
    Chuck Colson commenting on Speech given by H Clinton where she used the term Freedom of worship instead of freedom of Religion and joins the worship right with supposed homosexual rights. Chuck Colson breaks down the difference between worship and religion and the idea of elevating sexual perversion to an inalienable right and it's possibly significance in future U.S. policies.
    It is proper to take alarm at the first experiment on our liberties. The freeman of America did not wait till usurped power had strengthened itself by exercise, and entangled the question in precedents. James Madison
    Live as free people, yet without employing your freedom as a pretext for wickedness; but live at all times as servants of God.
    1 Peter 2:16

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    Quote Originally Posted by Little-Acorn View Post
    Can you give us a summary? I can't see videos due to a firewall at work.

    (Yeah, I know, get to work you lazy bum!)
    Basically, it says:
    -gays are evil
    -religion is under attack
    -God's marriage (polygamy) is a sin
    -We need to install a theocracy to restore the Constitution


    He needs to read his bible. There is no freedom of religion. All who worship other gods are to be slain under his god's law.

    Quote Originally Posted by DragonStryk72 View Post
    incest where it is actually bad in a provable sense (creates mutations in the genetic code, that sort of thing).
    Wrong.

    1) Incest does not create mutations. It merely increases the odds that regressive or rare genes will become common and be expressed through homogeneity. This is why we inbreed or horses and hounds when they have desirable traits.

    2) It generally takes multiple generations of incest to become a real problem.

    3) Yours is a eugenic argument. You claim we should limit who can reproduce with whom based on the expected genetic fitness of their progeny. How far are you willing to go with this line of argument? Should those who carry the alleles for genetic illnesses to forbidden from reproducing? Prevented through sterilization? It can be shown that letting the genetically flawed continue to reproduce causes demonstrable harm at a greater rate than incest can cause significant harm when taking place among the general population. Therefore, by your argument, they must be prevented from reproducing.

    Quote Originally Posted by dmp View Post
    The man in the video is spot-on-correct to compare homosexuality with incest and pedofilia.
    I hadn't pegged you for a fan or Sharia

    Quote Originally Posted by revelarts View Post
    elevating sexual perversion to an inalienable right and it's possibly significance in future U.S. policies.
    So you're not a fan of Loving v. Virginia?

    Quote Originally Posted by DragonStryk72 View Post
    Yes, the bible does mention incest back in Genesis

    God chose incest twice: once at creation and once after the flood, when a small number of people had to commit incest in order to populate the earth.



    Quote Originally Posted by dmp View Post
    The bible mentions, specifically, incest as a sin? I'd like to see that.
    Read Leviticus.

    http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/...18&version=NIV

    (NOT the 10 commandments, of which we are no longer bound per se)
    So... where are incest and homosexuality forbidden in the NT?


    Quote Originally Posted by revelarts View Post
    I agree with your point DMP but not quite how you get there.

    perversion = against or twisting of nature. Homosexuality fits the bill.
    Fail
    http://www.amazon.com/Biological-Exu.../dp/0312192398

    Quote Originally Posted by revelarts View Post
    <object fro="1" height="385" width="480">


    <embed fro="1" style="width: 476px ! important; height: 385px ! important; z-index: 820695213 ! important; float: left ! important;" src="http://www.youtube.com/v/u6H63CD7uQA&hl=en_US&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" height="385" width="476">⃕

    </object>

    good stuff plain and simple


    America never thrived under capitalism. It thrived under something more akin to social democracy.

    Then your AgitProp toon talks about ism forbidding unions. This is hilarious, as it was the capitalists who hired the mafia to gun down union members and their families to break the strikes and the very concept of the union grew out of socialist and communist thought.

    Then it talks about yellow unions- a product of the capitalists.

    Your ism sounds like corporatism.

    Quote Originally Posted by revelarts View Post
    the gov't, any gov't derives it's just powers from the consent of the governed.
    So the gov't has no authority over Charles Manson?

    Quote Originally Posted by Missileman View Post
    The rights I enjoy ARE derived from the COTUS .
    So If I change COTUS...?



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    The only particular issue I have with his opinion is his insistence on putting homosexuality up with pedophilia and incest. They are not nearly the same thing, where in pedophilia, obviously one of the participants is not old to have informed consent and in incest where it is actually bad in a provable sense (creates mutations in the genetic code, that sort of thing).

    Homosexuality most often is between two consenting adults, in which it falls under life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. It is allowed by the ideals we stand by, that the government has no right to tell you how to live your life, or with whom. It is not the same as allowing sexual predators to do whatever they want, and it never will be.
    "Government screws up everything. If government says black, you can bet it's white. If government says sit still for your safety, you'd better run for your life!"
    --Wayne Allyn Root
    www.rootforamerica.com
    www.FairTax.org

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    The government absolutely has and takes the responsibility to tell us how to live. While we have certain rights, (and even some of those aren't rights anymore), there exist privledges. Of those is 'marrige'...Driving...hrm...Seat belt or helmet laws, etc...things like that.

    The Gov't is well within its rights to set down restrictions for those things. Let the people decide.

    re: Homosexuality, etc...

    Sin is sin. Homosexuality hurts people physically and emotionally. One data point that proves that is the life-expectency of those who choose that lifestyle. There are other data points; domestic violence rates, etc, which corroborate the distructive nature of the lifestyle. The man in the video is spot-on-correct to compare homosexuality with incest and pedofilia - at least in terms of sinfulness...although I don't know the bible speaks specificially of incest.
    “… the greatest detractor from high performance is fear: fear that you are not prepared, fear that you are in over your head, fear that you are not worthy, and ultimately, fear of failure. If you can eliminate that fear—not through arrogance or just wishing difficulties away, but through hard work and preparation—you will put yourself in an incredibly powerful position to take on the challenges you face" - Pete Carroll.

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    Quote Originally Posted by dmp View Post
    The government absolutely has and takes the responsibility to tell us how to live. While we have certain rights, (and even some of those aren't rights anymore), there exist privledges. Of those is 'marrige'...Driving...hrm...Seat belt or helmet laws, etc...things like that.

    The Gov't is well within its rights to set down restrictions for those things. Let the people decide.

    re: Homosexuality, etc...

    Sin is sin. Homosexuality hurts people physically and emotionally. One data point that proves that is the life-expectency of those who choose that lifestyle. There are other data points; domestic violence rates, etc, which corroborate the distructive nature of the lifestyle. The man in the video is spot-on-correct to compare homosexuality with incest and pedofilia - at least in terms of sinfulness...although I don't know the bible speaks specificially of incest.
    Actually, marriage was considered an inherent right as of the Constitution. And by what you're saying, we might as well throw regular old marriage out the window, cause that ends badly 2/3 of the time these days. You really want to go there, we can go there, but there won't be anything left to do with your life by the time we're. I can easily use your logic there as a means to illegalize drinking, smoking, guns, marriage, sex, driving, flying, the list goes on and on.

    the government has NO right to tell us how to live our lives. None at all, unless you can show it to me in the Declaration of Independence or the Constitution.

    Yes, the bible does mention incest back in Genesis, and if we want really want to go down that road, I can oblige again. Everyone on this forum would be "put to death" before we hit the end (if you've ever eaten meat on a Friday or cursed at your parents, prepare to die). Actually, if you want to go biblical, you have no right judge, or make a call on what God would think or say on the matter, both of those were denied directly Jesus.

    Now, as to a point, you are telling me that to consenting women having sex with each other is exactly the same as raping a child? Those are one and the same? This seems to be your claim.

    The attempts to put homosexuality up there with bestiality, incest, and pedophilia is the most debase sort of argument, one used to paint them as vile creatures as opposed to human beings.
    "Government screws up everything. If government says black, you can bet it's white. If government says sit still for your safety, you'd better run for your life!"
    --Wayne Allyn Root
    www.rootforamerica.com
    www.FairTax.org

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    No, Marriage isn't a right. Show me where it's a right? We have controls in place covering various aspects; to be qualified for a legal marriage.

    The bible mentions, specifically, incest as a sin? I'd like to see that.

    Here's where your blatant ignorance of Christianity shows up. You (And to be fair, LOTS of churches, etc) take specific instructions under specific circumstances and apply it to a wide audience and paint with a broad brush.

    (shrug)

    If you think "that's what I seem to be saying" then you sir, are an idiot or a liar. No reasonable person could arrive at that conclusion.

    I'm saying, as far as I understand sin, Lying, homosexuality, murder - ALL hurt the person doing it. God's idea of what SIN is (NOT the 10 commandments, of which we are no longer bound per se) centers around keeping us from doing things that harm ourselves and/or others.

    Homosexuality, murder, lying, Hate, Liberalism (snicker) all fall under that umbrella.
    “… the greatest detractor from high performance is fear: fear that you are not prepared, fear that you are in over your head, fear that you are not worthy, and ultimately, fear of failure. If you can eliminate that fear—not through arrogance or just wishing difficulties away, but through hard work and preparation—you will put yourself in an incredibly powerful position to take on the challenges you face" - Pete Carroll.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by DragonStryk72 View Post
    Actually, marriage was considered an inherent right as of the Constitution..
    PROOF?

    Quote Originally Posted by DragonStryk72 View Post
    And by what you're saying, we might as well throw regular old marriage out the window, cause that ends badly 2/3 of the time these days..
    What do you consider badly?


    Quote Originally Posted by DragonStryk72 View Post
    You really want to go there, we can go there, but there won't be anything left to do with your life by the time we're. I can easily use your logic there as a means to illegalize drinking, smoking, guns, marriage, sex, driving, flying, the list goes on and on..
    You would be taking his logic toooo far


    Quote Originally Posted by DragonStryk72 View Post
    the government has NO right to tell us how to live our lives. None at all, unless you can show it to me in the Declaration of Independence or the Constitution..
    actually it does have a limited "power" to do so, but not a right, govt doesnt have rights

    Quote Originally Posted by DragonStryk72 View Post
    Yes, the bible does mention incest back in Genesis, and if we want really want to go down that road, I can oblige again. Everyone on this forum would be "put to death" before we hit the end (if you've ever eaten meat on a Friday or cursed at your parents, prepare to die). Actually, if you want to go biblical, you have no right judge, or make a call on what God would think or say on the matter, both of those were denied directly Jesus..
    As another stated, your knowledge of the Bible is very limited, You dont understand even the basics in terms of the context of passages you are referring to. Please show me where Jesus said you cant judge someone



    Quote Originally Posted by DragonStryk72 View Post
    Now, as to a point, you are telling me that to consenting women having sex with each other is exactly the same as raping a child? Those are one and the same? This seems to be your claim..
    As another said, it is extremely sad that you can make that jump from what he said


    Quote Originally Posted by DragonStryk72 View Post
    The attempts to put homosexuality up there with bestiality, incest, and pedophilia is the most debase sort of argument, one used to paint them as vile creatures as opposed to human beings.
    Homos arent vile creatures, but their sexual activity certainly is vile
    I DONT CLAIM TO KN0OW ANYTHING ABOUT HUMAN NATURE
    N
    OIR DO I KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT CRITICAL THINKING

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    Like I said at the beginning of this thread. I'm using this as kind of a running line on the bill of rights, but our rights acknowledge in the constitution more broadly. Not really expecting much comment. some items are kind of stream of consciousness and what i'm reading and viewing on the matter.


    I hit this interesting speed bump in the federalist paper # 84.

    "...The creation of crimes after the commission of the fact, or, in other words, the subjecting of men to punishment for things which, when they were done, were breaches of no law, and the practice of arbitrary imprisonments, have been, in all ages, the favorite and most formidable instruments of tyranny. The observations of the judicious Blackstone,1 in reference to the latter, are well worthy of recital: "To bereave a man of life, Usays he,e or by violence to confiscate his estate, without accusation or trial, would be so gross and notorious an act of despotism, as must at once convey the alarm of tyranny throughout the whole nation; but confinement of the person, by secretly hurrying him to jail, where his sufferings are unknown or forgotten, is a less public, a less striking, and therefore A MORE DANGEROUS ENGINE of arbitrary government." And as a remedy for this fatal evil he is everywhere peculiarly emphatical in his encomiums on the habeas-corpus act, which in one place he calls "the BULWARK of the British Constitution....""


    the assumption was that we would never do that here. Never put some one in jail with a trail or in secret. But sadly we have, and have attempted to find ways to justify it legally in congress and the courts. Both Bush and Obama are DOING this day. there are people in jail in bases in Afghanistan and still in secret prisons around the world. I don't believe the secret prisons are close like Obama says.

    " ...so gross and notorious an act of despotism...And as a remedy for this fatal evil .... the habeas-corpus act, ,... he calls "the BULWARK of the British Constitution...."

    whoah how far have we fallen, EVEN HAMILTON UNDERSTOOD THIS but some of us now have mistakenly called on the gov't to do it and don't see the danger of allowing gov't the authority to do it.
    Last edited by revelarts; 08-11-2010 at 02:15 PM.
    It is proper to take alarm at the first experiment on our liberties. The freeman of America did not wait till usurped power had strengthened itself by exercise, and entangled the question in precedents. James Madison
    Live as free people, yet without employing your freedom as a pretext for wickedness; but live at all times as servants of God.
    1 Peter 2:16

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    Quote Originally Posted by DragonStryk72 View Post
    Actually, marriage was considered an inherent right as of the Constitution. And by what you're saying, we might as well throw regular old marriage out the window, cause that ends badly 2/3 of the time these days. You really want to go there, we can go there, but there won't be anything left to do with your life by the time we're. I can easily use your logic there as a means to illegalize drinking, smoking, guns, marriage, sex, driving, flying, the list goes on and on.

    the government has NO right to tell us how to live our lives. None at all, unless you can show it to me in the Declaration of Independence or the Constitution.

    Yes, the bible does mention incest back in Genesis, and if we want really want to go down that road, I can oblige again. Everyone on this forum would be "put to death" before we hit the end (if you've ever eaten meat on a Friday or cursed at your parents, prepare to die). Actually, if you want to go biblical, you have no right judge, or make a call on what God would think or say on the matter, both of those were denied directly Jesus.

    Now, as to a point, you are telling me that to consenting women having sex with each other is exactly the same as raping a child? Those are one and the same? This seems to be your claim.

    The attempts to put homosexuality up there with bestiality, incest, and pedophilia is the most debase sort of argument, one used to paint them as vile creatures as opposed to human beings.
    I was thinking the same thing with the exception that I disagree with your assumption that marriage is an inherent Right of the Constitution.
    “When bad men combine, the good must associate; else they will fall, one by one, an unpitied sacrifice in a contemptible struggle.” Edumnd Burke

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    FYI
    Obama riding Bush train to removing all civil liberties ...for your safety

    http://www.activistpost.com/2011/12/...istration.html

    20 Examples of the Obama Administration Assault on Domestic Civil Liberties

    December 2, 2011

    By Bill Quigley - Activist Post
    ..Here are twenty examples of serious assaults on the domestic rights to
    freedom of speech,
    freedom of assembly,
    freedom of association,
    the right to privacy,
    the right to a fair trial,
    freedom of religion,
    and freedom of conscience
    that have occurred since the Obama administration has assumed power. Consider these and then decide if there is any fundamental difference between the Bush presidency and the Obama presidency in the area of domestic civil liberties....

    Patriot Act

    On May 27, 2011, President Obama, over widespread bipartisan objections, approved a Congressional four year extension of controversial parts of the Patriot Act that were set to expire. In March of 2010, Obama signed a similar extension of the Patriot Act for one year. These provisions allow the government, with permission from a special secret court, to seize records without the owner’s knowledge, conduct secret surveillance of suspicious people who have no known ties to terrorist groups and to obtain secret roving wiretaps on people.

    Criminalization of Dissent and Militarization of the Police
    ...Protest police sport ninja turtle-like outfits and are accompanied by helicopters, special tanks, and even sound blasting vehicles first used in Iraq. Wireless fingerprint scanners first used by troops in Iraq are now being utilized by local police departments to check motorists. Facial recognition software introduced in war zones is now being used in Arizona and other jurisdictions. Drones just like the ones used in Kosovo, Iraq and Afghanistan are being used along the Mexican and Canadian borders. These activities continue to expand under the Obama administration.

    Wiretaps
    Wiretaps for oral, electronic or wire communications, approved by federal and state courts, are at an all-time high. Wiretaps in year 2010 were up 34% from 2009, according to the Administrative Office of the US Courts.

    Criminalization of Speech
    Muslims in the US have been targeted by the Obama Department of Justice for inflammatory things they said or published on the internet. First Amendment protection of freedom of speech, most recently stated in a 1969 Supreme Court decision, Brandenberg v Ohio, says the government cannot punish inflammatory speech, even if it advocates violence unless it is likely to incite or produce such action. A Pakistani resident legally living in the US was indicted by the DOJ in September 2011 for uploading a video on YouTube. The DOJ said the video was supportive of terrorists even though nothing on the video called for violence. ...

    Domestic Government Spying on Muslim Communities
    In activities that offend freedom of religion, freedom of speech, and several other laws, the NYPD and the CIA have partnered to conduct intelligence operations against Muslim communities in New York and elsewhere. The CIA, which is prohibited from spying on Americans, works with the police on “human mapping”, commonly known as racial and religious profiling to spy on the Muslim community. Under the Obama administration, the Associated Press reported in August 2011, informants known as “mosque crawlers,” monitor sermons, bookstores and cafes.

    Top Secret America
    In July 2010, the Washington Post released “Top Secret America,” a series of articles detailing the results of a two year investigation into the rapidly expanding world of homeland security, intelligence and counter-terrorism. It found 1,271 government organizations and 1,931 private companies work on counterterrorism, homeland security and intelligence at about 10,000 locations across the US. Every single day, the National Security Agency intercepts and stores more than 1.7 billion emails, phone calls and other types of communications. The FBI has a secret database named Guardian that contains reports of suspicious activities filed from federal, state and local law enforcement. According to the Washington Post the FBI Guardian database contained 161,948 files as of December 2009. From that database there have been 103 full investigations and at least five arrests the FBI reported. The Obama administration has done nothing to cut back on the secrecy.

    Other Domestic Spying
    There are at least 72 fusion centers across the US which collect local domestic police information and merge it into multi-jurisdictional intelligence centers, according to recent report by the ACLU. These centers share information from federal, state and local law enforcement and some private companies to secretly spy on Americans. These all continue to grow and flourish under the Obama administration.

    Abusive FBI Intelligence Operations
    The Electronic Frontier Foundation documented thousands of violations of the law by FBI intelligence operations from 2001 to 2008 and estimate that there are over 4000 such violations each year. President Obama issued an executive order to strengthen the Intelligence Oversight Board, an agency which is supposed to make sure the FBI, the CIA and other spy agencies are following the law. No other changes have been noticed.

    Wikileaks
    The publication of US diplomatic cables by Wikileaks and then by main stream news outlets sparked condemnation by Obama administration officials who said the publication of accurate government documents was nothing less than an attack on the United States. The Attorney General announced a criminal investigation and promised “this is not saber rattling.” Government officials warned State Department employees not to download the publicly available documents. A State Department official and Columbia officials warned students that discussing Wikileaks or linking documents to social networking sites could jeopardize their chances of getting a government job, a position that lasted several days until reversed by other Columbia officials. At the time this was written, the Obama administration continued to try to find ways to prosecute the publishers of Wikileaks.

    Censorship of Books by the CIA
    In 2011, the CIA demanded extensive cuts from a memoir by former FBI agent Ali H. Soufan, in part because it made the agency look bad. Soufan’s book detailed the use of torture methods on captured prisoners and mistakes that led to 9-11. Similarly, a 2011 book on interrogation methods by former CIA agent Glenn Carle was subjected to extensive black outs. The CIA under the Obama administration continues its push for censorship.

    Blocking Publication of Photos of U.S. Soldiers Abusing Prisoners
    In May 2009, President Obama reversed his position of three weeks earlier and refused to release photos of US soldiers abusing prisoners. In April 2009, the US Department of Defense told a federal court that it would release the photos. The photos were part of nearly 200 criminal investigations into abuses by soldiers.



    Technological Spying

    The Bay Area Transit System, in August 2011, hearing of rumors to protest against fatal shootings by their police, shut down cell service in four stations. Western companies sell email surveillance software to repressive regimes in China, Libya and Syria to use against protestors and human rights activists. Surveillance cameras monitor residents in high crime areas, street corners and other governmental buildings. Police department computers ask for and receive daily lists from utility companies with addresses and names of every home address in their area. Computers in police cars scan every license plate of every car they drive by. The Obama administration has made no serious effort to cut back these new technologies of spying on citizens.

    Use of “State Secrets” to Shield Government and Others from review
    When the Bush government was caught hiring private planes from a Boeing subsidiary to transport people for torture to other countries, the Bush administration successfully asked the federal trial court to dismiss a case by detainees tortured because having a trial would disclose “state secrets” and threaten national security. When President Obama was elected, the state secrets defense was reaffirmed in arguments before a federal appeals court. It continues to be a mainstay of the Obama administration effort to cloak their actions and the actions of the Bush administration in secrecy.

    In another case, it became clear in 2005 that the Bush FBI was avoiding the Fourth Amendment requirement to seek judicial warrants to get telephone and internet records by going directly to the phone companies and asking for the records. The government and the companies, among other methods of surveillance, set up secret rooms where phone and internet traffic could be monitored. In 2008, the government granted the companies amnesty for violating the privacy rights of their customers. Customers sued anyway. But the Obama administration successfully argued to the district court, among other defenses, that disclosure would expose state secrets and should be dismissed. The case is now on appeal.

    Material Support
    The Obama administration successfully asked the US Supreme Court not to apply the First Amendment and to allow the government to criminalize humanitarian aid and legal activities of people providing advice or support to foreign organizations which are listed on the government list as terrorist organizations. The material support law can now be read to penalize people who provide humanitarian aid or human rights advocacy. The Obama administration Solicitor General argued to the court “when you help Hezbollah build homes, you are also helping Hezbollah build bombs.” The Court agreed with the Obama argument that national security trumps free speech in these circumstances.

    Chicago Anti-war Grand Jury Investigation
    In September 2010, FBI agents raided the homes of seven peace activists in Chicago, Minneapolis and Grand Rapids seizing computers, cell phones, passports, and records. More than 20 anti-war activists were issued federal grand jury subpoenas and more were questioned across the country. Some of those targeted were members of local labor unions, others members of organizations like the Arab American Action Network, the Columbia Action Network, the Twin Cities Anti-War Campaign and the Freedom Road Socialist Organization. Many were active internationally and visited resistance groups in Columbia and Palestine. Subpoenas directed people to bring anything related to trips to Columbia, Palestine, Jordan, Syria, Israel or the Middle East. In 2011, the home of a Los Angeles activist was raided and he was questioned about his connections with the September 2010 activists. All of these investigations are directed by the Obama administration.

    Punishing Whistleblowers
    The Obama administration has prosecuted five whistleblowers under the Espionage Act, more than all the other administrations in history put together. They charged a National Security Agency advisor with ten felonies under the Espionage Act for telling the press that government eavesdroppers were wasting hundreds of millions of dollars on misguided and failed projects. After their case collapsed, the government, which was chastised by the federal judge as engaging in unconscionable conduct allowed him to plead to a misdemeanor and walk. The administration has also prosecuted former members of the CIA, the State Department, and the FBI. They even tried to subpoena a journalist and one of the lawyers for the whistleblowers.

    Bradley Manning
    Army private Bradley Manning is accused of leaking thousands of government documents to Wikileaks. These documents expose untold numbers of lies by US government officials, wrongful killings of civilians, policies to ignore torture in Iraq, information about who is held at Guantanamo, cover ups of drone strikes and abuse of children and much more damaging information about US malfeasance. Though Daniel Ellsberg and other whistleblowers say Bradley is an American hero, the US government has jailed him and is threatening him with charges of espionage which may be punished by the death penalty. For months Manning was held in solitary confinement and forced by guards to sleep naked. When asked about how Manning was being held, President Obama personally defended the conditions of his confinement saying he had been assured they were appropriate and meeting our basic standards.

    Solitary Confinement
    At least 20,000 people are in solitary confinement in US jails and prisons, some estimate several times that many. Despite the fact that federal, state and local prisons and jails do not report actual numbers, academic research estimates tens of thousands are kept in cells for 23 to 24 hours a day in supermax units and prisons, in lockdown, in security housing units, in “the hole”, and in special management units or administrative segregation. Human Rights Watch reports that one-third to one-half of the prisoners in solitary are likely mentally ill. In May 2006, the UN Committee on Torture concluded that the United States should “review the regimen imposed on detainees in supermax prisons, in particular, the practice of prolonged isolation.” The Obama administration has taken no steps to cut back on the use of solitary confinement in federal, state or local jails and prisons.

    Special Administrative Measures
    Special Administrative Measures (SAMS) are extra harsh conditions of confinement imposed on prisoners (including pre-trial detainees) by the Attorney General. The U.S. Bureau of Prisons imposes restrictions such segregation and isolation from all other prisoners, and limitation or denial of contact with the outside world such as: no visitors except attorneys, no contact with news media, no use of phone, no correspondence, no contact with family, no communication with guards, 24 hour video surveillance and monitoring. The DOJ admitted in 2009 that several dozen prisoners, including several pre-trial detainees, mostly Muslims, were kept incommunicado under SAMS. If anything, the use of SAMS has increased under the Obama administration.

    These twenty concrete examples document a sustained assault on domestic civil liberties in the United States under the Obama administration. Rhetoric aside, how different has Obama been from Bush in this area?

    Bill is a human rights lawyer and law professor at Loyola University New Orleans. He also serves as Associate Legal Director of the Center for Constitutional Rights. He can be reached at Quigley77@gmail.com
    It is proper to take alarm at the first experiment on our liberties. The freeman of America did not wait till usurped power had strengthened itself by exercise, and entangled the question in precedents. James Madison
    Live as free people, yet without employing your freedom as a pretext for wickedness; but live at all times as servants of God.
    1 Peter 2:16

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    Quote Originally Posted by dmp View Post
    The government absolutely has and takes the responsibility to tell us how to live. While we have certain rights, (and even some of those aren't rights anymore), there exist privledges. Of those is 'marrige'...Driving...hrm...Seat belt or helmet laws, etc...things like that.

    The Gov't is well within its rights to set down restrictions for those things. Let the people decide.

    re: Homosexuality, etc...

    Sin is sin. Homosexuality hurts people physically and emotionally. One data point that proves that is the life-expectency of those who choose that lifestyle. There are other data points; domestic violence rates, etc, which corroborate the distructive nature of the lifestyle. The man in the video is spot-on-correct to compare homosexuality with incest and pedofilia - at least in terms of sinfulness...although I don't know the bible speaks specificially of incest.
    One has to be a Christian to Sin

    I also have been around Homosexuals pretty much my entire adult life along with having friends and family that are gay. So I believe I have a pretty good take on this matter and this is complete BS being spewed about Homosexuality hurts people physically and emotionally. Fact is most all of your sexual perverts and child molesters are so called Heterosexuals, how about those Child Molesting Priests eh?

    What does some of the most twisted monsters in history like Stalin, Hitler, Ed Gein, etc. have in common?

    Raised in obsessive religous homes.

    So why don't you stop spewing this trip eh?

    If someone is gay they're no threat to me nor is it any of my nor anyone else's business.

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    Quote Originally Posted by dmp View Post
    The government absolutely has and takes the responsibility to tell us how to live. While we have certain rights, (and even some of those aren't rights anymore), there exist privledges. Of those is 'marrige'...Driving...hrm...Seat belt or helmet laws, etc...things like that.

    The Gov't is well within its rights to set down restrictions for those things. Let the people decide.

    re: Homosexuality, etc...

    Sin is sin. Homosexuality hurts people physically and emotionally. One data point that proves that is the life-expectency of those who choose that lifestyle. There are other data points; domestic violence rates, etc, which corroborate the distructive nature of the lifestyle. The man in the video is spot-on-correct to compare homosexuality with incest and pedofilia - at least in terms of sinfulness...although I don't know the bible speaks specificially of incest.
    List your one data point and it's source and you WILL be laughed off the boards.

    The government absolutely has and takes the responsibility to tell us how to live. - Nothing could be more twisted than this misinterpretation of reality. Nothing.

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    Quote Originally Posted by dmp View Post
    The government absolutely has and takes the responsibility to tell us how to live.
    Bullshit, dimples. Give just an iota of proof of that or are you simply bloviating once again?

    Psychoblues

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