Freedom of Religion, or Freedom FROM Religion?

[Outraged Citizen]

Very simple. I want opinions on the current state of religion in this country. I agree with both sides. While seperation of Church and State makes reasonable sense, unreasonable people twist it to suit their agendas. Public schools should not have "Prayer Assemblies", where all the students are joined in prayer. But I will be livid the day one of my daughter's gets in trouble for praying over her meal in the school cafeteria.

Extremists atheists (because I never believe that any group of individuals can be all lumped together in opinion...) want to push their beliefs onto the general public. They want to see no sign of any religion, of any kind. They take this so far as to want to change our nation's motto. What would you have it be? "One Nation, Unless You Disagree"?

Leave my country alone. If you want to know what Seperation of Church and State was for, look in a history book, it's perfectly clear.

[crin63]

Our country was founded on the fundamentals of Christianity. Preachers like George Whitefield and Jonathan Edwards fundamentally shaped our country with their preaching of God's word. What was it, 28 of the signers of the Declaration of Independence were preachers.

Congress commissioned the printing of a Bible for use in our schools, in fact I think that was the very 1st thing congress ever commissioned to be printed. We use to have national days of prayer and thanksgiving.

The capitol building used to be used for church services and the Marine Corp band played the hymns.

If it were the religious beliefs of our founders I would have no problem with prayer assemblies.

Separation of church and state was meant to be freedom from a state church like the Church of England. Our founders never meant for religion to be kept out of government or our schools. The separation of church and state as commonly argued is just a perversion of leftists to quash morality in this country. That's the only way they can achieve their goals.

[Sweetchuck]

Our country was founded on the fundamentals of Christianity. Preachers like George Whitefield and Jonathan Edwards fundamentally shaped our country with their preaching of God's word. What was it, 28 of the signers of the Declaration of Independence were preachers.

Congress commissioned the printing of a Bible for use in our schools, in fact I think that was the very 1st thing congress ever commissioned to be printed. We use to have national days of prayer and thanksgiving.

The capitol building used to be used for church services and the Marine Corp band played the hymns.

If it were the religious beliefs of our founders I would have no problem with prayer assemblies.

Separation of church and state was meant to be freedom from a state church like the Church of England. Our founders never meant for religion to be kept out of government or our schools. The separation of church and state as commonly argued is just a perversion of leftists to quash morality in this country. That's the only way they can achieve their goals.

Our forefathers were also shitting in pits behind their houses, fucking and fathering children with their negro slaves and applying hot iron rods to snakebites.

You advocating that also?

[Outraged Citizen]

I think you both misinterpret what "Freedom of Religion" means. Honestly, it was meant that the government could not regulate or support one religion, or ban any peacable religion.

And not all atheists are extremist. Some simply do not believe in God, (ANY DEITY) and don't want to be harassed by fundamental christians. Yes, that was where our nation originated, but our forefathers chose to escape to where a man could choose a religion for himself....not where a man would never have to see any form of religion. If a muslim child wants to pray to the east in school, and he does it in a non-disruptive manner, I believe he has that right.

[Palin Rider]

Extremists atheists (because I never believe that any group of individuals can be all lumped together in opinion...) want to push their beliefs onto the general public. They want to see no sign of any religion, of any kind. They take this so far as to want to change our nation's motto. What would you have it be? "One Nation, Unless You Disagree"?

FYI, our motto was "E Pluribus Unum" (of many, one) until the McCarthy era, when fear of the "godless commies" prompted Congress to change it to "In God We Trust."

I prefer, "In God We Trust, All Others Pay Cash."

[Missileman]

Our country was founded on the fundamentals of Christianity.

Then you should have no problem enumerating these principles. I suspect you'll find it a very short list. In fact, our nation's arguably greatest principle is contradictory to the fundamentals of Christianity and renders your claim false.

[Noir]

It goes both ways.

However, freedom *of* religion is only in respect to beliefs, not acts. You may believe because of your religion that Blacks are lesser people, Homosexuals should be wiped from the face of the earth or that a mans sins can only be forgiven if he has sex with a virgin. But the state can, and should try and get in the way when any of these religious beliefs infringe upon the secular human rights of others if/when they are put into action.

[Abbey Marie]

Our forefathers were also shitting in pits behind their houses, fucking and fathering children with their negro slaves and applying hot iron rods to snakebites.

You advocating that also?

How delicately put.

One question: Do I own the slaves, or am I just having sex with them? The former is immoral and unconstitutional; the latter depends on the particular circumstances, I suppose.

Annnnyway, other than the slaves, I would hope that I would have the right to do the other things if I wanted, free of government interference. Particularly if the Constitution explicitly said I had a right to freedom from the establishment of flush toilets and forced submission to modern medical care.

But I digress... The real point is this: That our forefathers used their backyards as toilets, and had primitive medical treatments, are more indicative of the inventions available in times they lived, than any predilection on their part for a yard full of feces. Conversely, their attitudes on religion, and the freedom to practice it thereof, were not dependent on anything but their actual convictions.

[Outraged Citizen]

First, let's discuss the problems in this thread.

E Pluribus Unum was never actually established by any legislation as the national motto. This is a common misconception, because it was on the Seal of the U.S., and on our currency. But, to quote the Congressional Record of 1956: "At the present time the United States has no national motto. The committee deems it most appropriate that 'In God we trust' be so designated as U.S. national motto."

In God We Trust has also been around a lot longer than McCarthy, first being used on the 2 cent coin in 1866.

Just providing facts.

And as for our country not being founded on Christianity, we could debate that until the end of time, but let's concede that Noir is right. Do you still actually think that it is offensive for someone to bow their heads and offer a silent prayer of thanks to the deity of their choice for the blessing of food? Or do you think the government has the right to decide if this is allowed?

Communism.

[Palin Rider]

First, let's discuss the problems in this thread.

E Pluribus Unum was never actually established by any legislation as the national motto. This is a common misconception, because it was on the Seal of the U.S., and on our currency. But, to quote the Congressional Record of 1956: "At the present time the United States has no national motto. The committee deems it most appropriate that 'In God we trust' be so designated as U.S. national motto."

The legislation issue is, to me, a fine point, because E Pluribus Unum appeared on the official seal of the United States as early as 1782.

In God We Trust has also been around a lot longer than McCarthy, first being used on the 2 cent coin in 1866.

Just providing facts.

My understanding is that it did not appear on every denomination for quite a while, and in fact a number of people (including Teddy Roosevelt) considered its use on money to be blasphemy.

[Sweetchuck]

How delicately put.

One question: Do I own the slaves, or am I just having sex with them? The former is immoral and unconstitutional; the latter depends on the particular circumstances, I suppose.

Annnnyway, other than the slaves, I would hope that I would have the right to do the other things if I wanted, free of government interference. Particularly if the Constitution explicitly said I had a right to freedom from the establishment of flush toilets and forced submission to modern medical care.

But I digress... The real point is this: That our forefathers used their backyards as toilets, and had primitive medical treatments, are more indicative of the inventions available in times they lived, than any predilection on their part for a yard full of feces. Conversely, their attitudes on religion, and the freedom to practice it thereof, were not dependent on anything but their actual convictions.

You got my point, I think. It simply was that we live in an exponentially different society than we did 250 or whatever years ago.

Our forefathers planted a seed. We shouldn't kill the plant to preserve the seed.

... man, what a fucking analogy.

[Outraged Citizen]

You got my point, I think. It simply was that we live in an exponentially different society than we did 250 or whatever years ago.

Our forefathers planted a seed. We shouldn't kill the plant to preserve the seed.

... man, what a fucking analogy.

Great analogy. But will you dig up the roots to preserve the leaves? Not as good, but here's the point...We need a combination of new and old, not a complete dismissal of either.

What did I say about extremists? They's the devil, momma...

[Sweetchuck]

Great analogy. But will you dig up the roots to preserve the leaves? Not as good, but here's the point...We need a combination of new and old, not a complete dismissal of either.

What did I say about extremists? They's the devil, momma...

Totally agree.

But when I hear the religious right suggest that our forefathers wanted us to jam Christianity down everyone's throat, I'm calling bullshit.

[Outraged Citizen]

Totally agree.

But when I hear the religious right suggest that our forefathers wanted us to jam Christianity down everyone's throat, I'm calling bullshit.

Agreed.

Freedom to choose.

[SassyLady]

Our forefathers were also shitting in pits behind their houses, fucking and fathering children with their negro slaves and applying hot iron rods to snakebites.

You advocating that also?

What a stupid question.