View Poll Results: Were American Indians the Victims of Genocide?

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  • Yes.

    9 64.29%
  • No.

    5 35.71%
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  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by dmp View Post
    Agnapostate has been banned for one week. That word, or any variant of spelling is never cool.
    He was recently banned 7 days for doing almost the same thing. Apparently he doesn't like that rule and thinks it doesn't apply to him. He's mistaken. 7 days didn't deter him last time, so I have increased the ban to 14 days this time. Next ban for this offense will be his last.

    p.s. - Ag - don't make me lock this thread. Just continue on when you return and abide by the rules. If you try and argue your ban publicly again it won't work out in your favor. Shoot me a PM if you have a problem with this decision.
    “You know the world is going crazy when the best rapper is a white guy, the best golfer is a black guy, the tallest guy in the NBA is Chinese, the Swiss hold the America's Cup, France is accusing the U.S. of arrogance, Germany doesn't want to go to war, and the three most powerful men in America are named "Bush", "Dick", and "Colin." Need I say more?” - Chris Rock

  2. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by Agnapostate View Post
    Your stupid little anecdotes aren't even relevant in this context, since you're not even an Indian. My mother's a Mayan and has the same inaccurate belief in unrestrained social mobility based on her own rags-to-riches story from Guatemala to the U.S. (psychoanalyze that however you want). Like you, she's a victim of arrogant inflation of her own individual perceptions. You'll never see the forest as long as you belligerently insist on charting the growth of one tree and inferring that all the others must be the same.
    You know what's sad. You aren't even proud of your mother for pulling herself up and moving her family out of poverty. Presumably if she hadn't left Guatemala you wouldn't have gotten the education that you have.

    You're so busy cussing and blaming people that you just don't see that every other Indian in this country is capable of doing the very same thing your mother did. They can leave their comfort zone and improve themselves, or they can do what you want them to do and sit at home feeling sorry for themselves and blaming everyone around them for their shitty life.

  3. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trigg View Post
    You know what's sad. You aren't even proud of your mother for pulling herself up and moving her family out of poverty. Presumably if she hadn't left Guatemala you wouldn't have gotten the education that you have.

    You're so busy cussing and blaming people that you just don't see that every other Indian in this country is capable of doing the very same thing your mother did. They can leave their comfort zone and improve themselves, or they can do what you want them to do and sit at home feeling sorry for themselves and blaming everyone around them for their shitty life.
    That was my thinking with the anecdotes post. Well said!


    "The government is a child that has found their parents credit card, and spends knowing that they never have to reconcile the bill with their own money"-Shannon Churchill


  4. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by jimnyc View Post
    He was recently banned 7 days for doing almost the same thing. Apparently he doesn't like that rule and thinks it doesn't apply to him. He's mistaken. 7 days didn't deter him last time, so I have increased the ban to 14 days this time. Next ban for this offense will be his last.
    I thought he was a she? Isn't s/he a 20 year old girl?

  5. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by Agnapostate View Post

    You'll never see the forest as long as you belligerently insist on charting the growth of one tree and inferring that all the others must be the same.
    Not "must" be the same, but "can" be the same.
    If the freedom of speech is taken away
    then dumb and silent we may be led,
    like sheep to the slaughter.


    George Washington (1732-1799) First President of the USA.

  6. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by DragonStryk72 View Post
    Actually, it wasn't genocide, as we were not systematically exterminating them. We just kept kicking them off their land cause they kept picking all the goods spots. It's like in Maverick, "Next time I'll find a piece of swamp land so god awful, maybe then you people'll leave us the hell alone."

    Just so we're clear:


    gen·o·cide
       /ˈdʒɛnəˌsaɪd/ Show Spelled[jen-uh-sahyd] Show IPA
    –noun
    the deliberate and systematic extermination of a national, racial, political, or cultural group.

    no one was wiping them off the map. The numbers quoted are not just murdered Native Americans, because it was mainly diseases we brought over from Europe and Asia that did that one, and that would have been true if it had been they had started populating Europe. Colds and flus that were normal to us, and non-lethal save in the most extreme circumstance were horribly deadly. At the time, in honesty, there was nothing we could have done about that, given the medical breakthroughs of the time.

    Another culprit in the decline was the inter-tribal warfare that went on during all this, along with the numerous wars such as the revolutionary war, and French and Indian wars that cost even more lives.

    Now, were we anal-retentive megalomaniacs who were being complete twats? Yes, hells yes, and our repeated breaking of treaties with them was unconscionable, as was our hubris in believing our way of life superior to all others.

    I've been on dance team with the Calico Dancers out of Glens Falls NY in high school, had a scout leader, Mr. Carroll who was Native American. As well, I've done service projects on reservations a number of times. Yes, the Europeans of the 1500s-1900s who did these things were wrong, but I'm not the one who did it, just as no one here took part in it. Trying to push white guilt on us, however, is just cowardly. Grow up.
    Displacing populations, disrupting their habitat and sourcing for food and shelter...It's genocide.
    Fascism has come to America, wrapped in a flag and carrying a cross. His name is Trump.
    War is peace. Freedom is slavery. Ignorance is strength. - George Orwell...The New GOP motto.

  7. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by Agnapostate View Post
    Do you believe that American Indians (referring to the Americas, not just the U.S.) were the victims of genocide, or as is more likely for a rightist forum, did they just "lose the war" because they were primitive forest dwellers facing guns?
    What we did to the natives was the worst crime this nation has ever perpetuated - and that includes slavery. (the sin of slavery being partially atoned for by the spilling of the blood of half a million Americans)

  8. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by DragonStryk72 View Post
    Actually, it wasn't genocide, as we were not systematically exterminating them. We just kept kicking them off their land cause they kept picking all the goods spots.

    We "kicked them off their land" in many cases by marching them to death - but hey, that's not genocide.

    no one was wiping them off the map. The numbers quoted are not just murdered Native Americans, because it was mainly diseases we brought over from Europe and Asia that did that one, and that would have been true if it had been they had started populating Europe.
    Yeah I'm sure their removal to all that good farmland out in western deserts (its really good when it isn't irrigated) had nothing to do with their decline in numbers. Its not like people need food.

  9. #69
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    I don't care about the ban and have no comment on it. I'm close to throwing in the towel here; I don't make a habit of posting on boards that are characterized by arbitrary censorship as an established practice. I will post a few comments during this visit.

    1. As expounded by Noel Ignatiev in his book How the Irish Became White, the Irish ethnic group assimilated by replicating many of the external behavioral patterns of their Anglo-Protestant superiors, including their racism against "non-whites." It was the same process that the "Five Civilized Tribes" underwent in adopting Anglo-Protestant culture, language, apparel, and habits (such as black slave ownership), even though they were eventually subject to ethnic cleansing in the end.

    2. While you may excitedly listen to Glenn Beck and Rush Limbaugh's pronouncements of victim-blaming, that the poor are poor because of their unwillingness to work hard and pull themselves up by their bootstraps, you have a weighty record to deal with in that the patterns in continental Europe flatly contradict this. The social democracies of Scandinavia in particular are characterized by more expansive welfare states, but have higher employment and social mobility levels coupled with reduced poverty levels. I've posted considerable evidence that corroborates this; it is rejected because it does not mesh with your naive, ideologically biased view of the world.

    3. This is not the topic, regardless. The topic is whether American Indians were victims of genocide, and I believe that I have effectively defended the conclusion that they were. If anyone is interested in contributing to that subject, please post your thoughts.
    The history of human thought recalls the swinging of a pendulum which takes centuries to swing. After a long period of slumber comes a moment of awakening. -Peter Kropotkin

  10. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by Agnapostate View Post
    I don't care about the ban and have no comment on it. I'm close to throwing in the towel here; I don't make a habit of posting on boards that are characterized by arbitrary censorship as an established practice.
    Don't care and won't comment, then you comment in the very next sentence. We don't practice arbitrary censorship here as you put it, more like you practice arbitrary skirting the rules and trolling. I will be nice for this last time and only lock this thread but your shenanigans will be kept on a very short leash. And threatening to leave isn't exactly going to tug on anyone's heart here.
    “You know the world is going crazy when the best rapper is a white guy, the best golfer is a black guy, the tallest guy in the NBA is Chinese, the Swiss hold the America's Cup, France is accusing the U.S. of arrogance, Germany doesn't want to go to war, and the three most powerful men in America are named "Bush", "Dick", and "Colin." Need I say more?” - Chris Rock

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