Why men don't want to commit to steady relationships

[chloe]

I say it's a society raised on Disney Fairytale's with a meet someone, fall in love and live happily ever after. Marriage and relationships are work, but it's work that one loves. Then there's the court system that still to this day screws over the male to an obscene level. I was once married, been single now for about 15 years now and I very highly doubt I'll ever marry

Yeah I'm with you. If I ever decide to make a serious commitment there won't be a mariage contract, besides the person I would be interested in is because we share so much commonalities in our way of thinking and neither of us needs much in life to be happy. I like things simple.

[Pagan]

Yeah I'm with you. If I ever decide to make a serious commitment there won't be a mariage contract, besides the person I would be interested in is because we share so much commonalities in our way of thinking and neither of us needs much in life to be happy. I like things simple.

In all honesty the strongest and longest relationships I've seen have been with no contract of marriage. But I do say my best friends (who btw I introduced them) have been married for 30 years, but that is very, very unique these days.

[DragonStryk72]

The answer to this question is fairly simple, but it will probably surprise the hell out of you.

Most men don't want commitment because they can't afford it financially.

It's a simple fact of life, but nothing prevents the accumulation of money like a woman. Money spent on a woman is never an investment; it's an expense. A man who expects a financial return on that money is a fool.

Consider two hypothetical guys, Bob and Mark. They are roommates, both have just graduated from the same high school, and both have decided to wait a year before deciding whether to go to college. They both have jobs in the same electronics store, where they each make the same salary and each have $350 per month left over after paying all their bills.

There's where the similarity ends. Bob gets a girlfriend; Mark does not. Over the next year, Bob spends 20 hours a week and $350 a month on his girlfriend. Mark decides to take 20 hours a week and $350 a month and put it into a part-time business.

After that year, Bob's girlfriend dumps him, because she thinks he's a loser in a dead-end job with no ambition. Meanwhile Mark has been able to grow his business to a point where he can quit his electronics store job and make $90,000 per year working only 30 hours a week (because Mark's employees do most of the work). Who do you think Bob's girlfriend is seeing now? Yup, it's Mark.

Unfortunately, it doesn't end there. After their first trip to Europe, Mark becomes a Bob. He focuses most of his attention on his girlfriend, taking her on extravagant trips around the world. After a year, she leaves him for a guy she met in Aspen (a trip Mark paid for), telling Mark that somewhere he lost that entrepreneurial passion that attracted her to him in the first place. Naturally, Mark gets very depressed and loses what little interest he had left in his business. His money is spent, his passion is gone, and without the passion, he will never make the money back. He sees himself as just another failed entrepreneur getting a 2-year late start into college. This is a very common story of the "loser who could have been a multimillionaire."

How is a man to deal with this? The key is to find a female friend (not a girlfriend) who
1. Doesn't need money from you to pay for a lifestyle she wants but can't afford on her own,
2. Doesn't need to be somebody's wife or girlfriend to feel like she has stability and self-worth, and
3. Doesn't use you like an emotional dumpster every time she expects you to fix a problem.

Women like these are not common, but they're well worth holding out for.

Wow, the assumptions. $350 a month, and he just spends every dime out his ass, while in no way looking to move up, save anything, or find a better job? That's Bob's fault, and has nothing to do with the girl. And don't give me some horseshit about how much it costs to go on a date. There a plenty of romantic things you can do that do not cost money: Go to the park, go to see local street performers, cuddle up on the couch with a couple of good books or a movie, etc.. Your analogy is horridly flimsy.

Then there's the "almost all women are money grubbers who only care about your bank account". That's the woman you used, she only left cause there wasn't enough money, and only hooks up with Mark cause he has money. So you literally called almost all women in the world money grubbing whores.

You at no point talk about how Bob or Mark act as people, cause clearly that's different, too. Mark has a plan, a solid one that he works toward (He likely has run out of friends and such since he does nothing but work and put money away, but he has a plan.). Bob has no plan, and not even any short term goals for self-improvement, just sits there in his paycheck to paycheck surviving, and likely bemoaning his poverty. Yeah, that's proof of stuff. That's why no one ever marries plumbers, public defenders, teachers, or any of the other folks out there that have jobs that pay little.

The ones who are happy with their marriages might. Aren't they an endangered species?

Not according to both my friend Brian, and my buddy John, both of whom are happy in their marriages.

[Pagan]

Not according to both my friend Brian, and my buddy John, both of whom are happy in their marriages.

According to the statistics they are a rarity

[darin]

Some call what 'facing reality'?

Now - don't get me wrong - the oppression of men, especially fathers, by sexist court rulings and beyond-biased "Support" policy/payments is EVIL.

Until custodial parents must 'account' for every dollar they steal from the non-custodial parent, men will still suffer unduly.


Child support payment should be: "HALF the price difference between a 1 bedroom place and a (insert more for more kids)...nominal increases for half the increased utilities costs. Half the increased food bill - by establishing baselines and adjusting quarterly....etc...off the top of my head.

Women often get a free ride when it comes to raising kids - and they ABSOLUTELY Have the ONLY SAY when it comes to carrying the child they willingly conceive w/ the father.

Really, well some call it facing reality and not getting screwed by the system and loosing everything they have then have to continue paying for decades to come
Divorce rate -
According to enrichment journal on the divorce rate in America:
The divorce rate in America for first marriage is 41%
The divorce rate in America for second marriage is 60%
The divorce rate in America for third marriage is 73%

                        Women    Men
Under 20 years old	27.6%	11.7%
20 to 24 years old	36.6%	38.8%
25 to 29 years old	16.4%	22.3%
30 to 34 years old	8.5%  	11.6%
35 to 39 years old	5.1%	 6.5%

[chloe]

Some call what 'facing reality'?

Now - don't get me wrong - the oppression of men, especially fathers, by sexist court rulings and beyond-biased "Support" policy/payments is EVIL.

Until custodial parents must 'account' for every dollar they steal from the non-custodial parent, men will still suffer unduly.


Child support payment should be: "HALF the price difference between a 1 bedroom place and a (insert more for more kids)...nominal increases for half the increased utilities costs. Half the increased food bill - by establishing baselines and adjusting quarterly....etc...off the top of my head.

Women often get a free ride when it comes to raising kids - and they ABSOLUTELY Have the ONLY SAY when it comes to carrying the child they willingly conceive w/ the father.

I agree the courts are sexist against men, however it has not been a free ride for me raising two daughters alone on my income, my ex husband has not paid child support entering year #2 , I would be happy for him to buy our kids clothes, or pay the school fees, or help on the over $200 a month I pay from my paycheck on health care dental and vision insurance for them. But while I raised our kids alone he got engaged several times and lived with other women and helped raise there kids. I have never pursued him in court and I keep relations friendly with his family for our kids. I can tell you it's no free ride raising children but I am glad I got to and although the money would be nice having the custody of the kids is nicer. I also encouraged him to see our kids whenever he wanted to and he hardly ever took initiative. It's not a good experience divorce and I would have tried to work the marriage out but he didnt want to, he wanted to be single and date alot of women. I realize now that I made bad choices and I will pay for those choices the rest of my life, but the good part is our kids. I will never marry again that's for sure !

[PostmodernProphet]

I have trouble understanding this thread.....
I've been married for 34 years
my parents were married for 61 years
my grandparents (mother's side) were married for 65 years...(paternal grandfather died of a heart attack at age 58 or I'm sure they would have reached high numbers as well)
of the five couples we associate with most frequently, all have been married for 30 years or longer....

so, I guess I don't know who these men are that don't want steady relationships....

[chloe]

I have trouble understanding this thread.....
I've been married for 34 years
my parents were married for 61 years
my grandparents (mother's side) were married for 65 years...(paternal grandfather died of a heart attack at age 58 or I'm sure they would have reached high numbers as well)
of the five couples we associate with most frequently, all have been married for 30 years or longer....

so, I guess I don't know who these men are that don't want steady relationships....

That's really neat PMP . When I was married I enjoyed it but I guess I was a real fool, I mean I was all involved with our babies and taking care of my husbands grandma she lived with us. In retrospect I neglected my husband and he strayed and had alot of affairs so I take responsibility for that but we could have gone to marriage counseling he didnt want to so that was his choice. Raising the kids alone has not been easy, and I don't think any single custodial parent whether its a man or a woman would say it was a free ride.

[Little-Acorn]

the oppression of men, especially fathers, by sexist court rulings and beyond-biased "Support" policy/payments is EVIL.

Some courts do that, others don't. Might also vary by state.

My first wife strayed and there were other problems (not minor), so I let her go. The court ruled that my son live mostly with me. I still paid alimony, and some child support since he occasionally went to her. The difference was due mainly to my higher income. Looking back, I could not find a lot of fault with that, other then the fact that it was not based at all on past marital behavior. The theory is, it is based on the good of the child. Calif is a no-fault-divorce state.

There is no "good" divorce settlement.

Back to the subject:
The idea that men don't want to make the commitment, is mostly false. It makes this thread a non-starter. GIGO.

[Pagan]

I agree the courts are sexist against men, however it has not been a free ride for me raising two daughters alone on my income, my ex husband has not paid child support entering year #2 , I would be happy for him to buy our kids clothes, or pay the school fees, or help on the over $200 a month I pay from my paycheck on health care dental and vision insurance for them. But while I raised our kids alone he got engaged several times and lived with other women and helped raise there kids. I have never pursued him in court and I keep relations friendly with his family for our kids. I can tell you it's no free ride raising children but I am glad I got to and although the money would be nice having the custody of the kids is nicer. I also encouraged him to see our kids whenever he wanted to and he hardly ever took initiative. It's not a good experience divorce and I would have tried to work the marriage out but he didnt want to, he wanted to be single and date alot of women. I realize now that I made bad choices and I will pay for those choices the rest of my life, but the good part is our kids. I will never marry again that's for sure !

My hat goes off to you, you other than my Step Mother and one other friend of mine are the only Women who I know of who put their kids first. Both of them also didn't get support from the fathers but they never played games and knew the kids needed to have their father in their lives. But that is such a rarity these days and numerous fathers I know have gotten the shaft and the kids are nothing more than an income source for the mother, the kids are the ones who pay.

I've seen first hand fathers who's Child Support is based on "potential income" instead of what they make. The Child Support in times is actually more than they actually earn as a whole, then they are denied licenses which further destroy's their ability to earn money. Then there is zero accountability for any of the funds and the Woman use the money for themselves and nothing goes to the children.

Anyway I can rant on all day about what I've seen, but that only serves to give me ulcers.

Some courts do that, others don't. Might also vary by state.

My first wife strayed and there were other problems (not minor), so I let her go. The court ruled that my son live mostly with me. I still paid alimony, and some child support since he occasionally went to her. The difference was due mainly to my higher income. Looking back, I could not find a lot of fault with that, other then the fact that it was not based at all on past marital behavior. The theory is, it is based on the good of the child. Calif is a no-fault-divorce state.

There is no "good" divorce settlement.

Back to the subject:
The idea that men don't want to make the commitment, is mostly false. It makes this thread a non-starter. GIGO.

You're lucky, very lucky. I do know that if one has to go through a Divorce California is probably the best and most fair State to do it.

Back to the subject of "men don't want to make the commitment", yes you could say it's false. I say we're forced to not make a commitment due to the way the radical feminists have made anyone with a penis the enemy.

[Trigg]

According to the statistics they are a rarity

If over half of marriages don't end in divorce that means that happy marriages are NOT a rarity.

[PostmodernProphet]

If over half of marriages don't end in divorce that means that happy marriages are NOT a rarity.

wait a minute....did you say we were supposed to be happy too?.....

[Trigg]

wait a minute....did you say we were supposed to be happy too?.....

yep, that's the general idea.

Hubby and I have been married over 20 years, my parents and in-laws are still married. Most of our friends and family members have never been divorced.

Divorce is all too common, I'll agree. But happy long-term marriages are NOT a rarity.

[Abbey Marie]

Ahem:
My marriage- almost 21 years
My parents- 53, and would be longer if my mom hadn't passed
My in laws- 52, also stopped only by a death
Brother #1- 30 years
Brother #2- 28 years
BIL #1- 27 years
BIL#2- 7 years
Best friend- 25 years
Other good friend- 21 years
Other good friend- 19 years

All of these are 1st marriages, and from what I can see, happy.

[Palin Rider]

Since when did a handful of people someone knows become a statistically representative sample?