How do we prepare for a limited government?

[avatar4321]

I've been thinking. We have a limited government coming. Whether it's from us voluntarily cutting things back or it's from us being unable to fund things because of the massive overspending or debt, there are going to have to be major cuts to government eventually. It's not sustainable long term.

Obviously, they way it happens is a choice we will have to make, but I am not entirely sure we are capable of having a limited government right now. It's something I'd love to see. But there are so many people in society that have been conditions to handouts. Even those of us who don't take handouts get alot more from the Federal Government spending than we realize.

In order to truly have a limited government, and to avoid the massive riots, death, and chaos that would come with an abrupt shift off the government teet, we need to be prepared. We need as many people as possible prepared.

We need to be rooted as strongly as we can in reality. I supposedly have a pension with my job. I realized a while ago that it's not going to be likeley that Ill ever see a dime of that pension, because quite frankly, we won't be able to afford something. It's not why i took the job to begin with. As far as I am concerned, it's not money I will ever see.

I've been thinking a bit about education as well. I don't think the public school systems are sustainable. The expenses they put out, the lack of results. I think we are going to need people creating some sort of afforable private schools. Off kids tuition or ways to work off their tuition. Something that doesn't involve government intervention.

And the colleges are going to have to change too. I don't think the financial aid is always going to be available. And how feasible is it for people to pay tens of thousands of dollars for a degree only to end up working in retail when they get out of college? Believe me, I am for education. But the current set up doesn't really seem feasible. Nor does it seem right that people need to enslave themselves in debt for the next 10-20 years to pay off a degree they cant even get a job with. Especially when they can learn things by going to the library and reading books. Or through research online or personal experimentation.

And then there are the people on the welfare roles. How do we take care of the people who geniunely need help without paying for all the people who are just mooching?

I am convinced that we need individuals stepping up and doing alot more for their fellow man. We need to come up with these ideas and infrastructure now. Because I think we are running out of time. These current methods just arent sustainable. What kind of ideas do you have? What can we do to help others without the government? What can we do to take care of our needs without the government?

And please dont make this into one group vs another. Because we are all in this together.

[bullypulpit]

Limited...? How...? According to the current crop of GOP mainstreamed lunatic fringers, the government can force a 14 year old raped, repeatedly, by her uncle to carry the result of that rape to term. Same gender couples have no right to exist. Anything goes in the name of "national security". The libertarian bent of the modern conservatism is a illusion...nothing more.

[BoogyMan]

According to the current crop of socialist/Marxist human effluence in charge of the country the only way to stop digging the hole we are in is to KEEP DIGGING!

Limited...? How...? According to the current crop of GOP mainstreamed lunatic fringers, the government can force a 14 year old raped, repeatedly, by her uncle to carry the result of that rape to term. Same gender couples have no right to exist. Anything goes in the name of "national security". The libertarian bent of the modern conservatism is a illusion...nothing more.

Limited government is coming to us whether we like it or not. I simply cannot imagine the inbreds in Washington and their disciples demanding the massive taxation that would be required to support their current plans as the realization finally sets in for them that America cannot afford their form of government and their Washington centered largess.

We will, no doubt, see families that no longer have an expectation that their children will grow up, go to college, get a good job, and move out to start their own lives. Most likely we will be seeing families hunkering down and living together much longer than we have in the past.

[Modus Ponens]

According to the current crop of socialist/Marxist human effluence in charge of the country the only way to stop digging the hole we are in is to KEEP DIGGING!

Limited government is coming to us whether we like it or not. I simply cannot imagine the inbreds in Washington and their disciples demanding the massive taxation that would be required to support their current plans as the realization finally sets in for them that America cannot afford their form of government and their Washington centered largess.

"Limited government" is not good for its own sake; what every society requires is a government of the appropriate size and strength to serve the people. We all agree that government's power cannot be unlimited. But that doesn't help us much when it comes to deciding on policy priorities.

I think it's true that we can keep taxes low and get our gov't finances in order, if you're willing to call for sufficiently deep cuts in entitlement spending. I think you should just be honest, I think Con politicians should just be honest, and call for a 50% reduction in General Welfare spending. After all, if you think that it's "inevitable," why not get out there and have the courage of your convictions? Let the Tea-Partiers go first; surely the public will swoon before their glorious vision of a government big enough only to govern the city of Washington, D.C.

We will, no doubt, see families that no longer have an expectation that their children will grow up, go to college, get a good job, and move out to start their own lives. Most likely we will be seeing families hunkering down and living together much longer than we have in the past.

You see, this is the kind of faith in the future typical of your average Con. This is the kind of future you get with their "every man for himself!" ideal of society. This is the kind of leadership offered by the Party of NO. It's just unbelievable that the public looks prepared to reward the Republicans for sitting on the sidelines doing nothing while the Democats have struggled mightily to clean up their mess. Are the American people really such fools? Do they have no memory at all?

[Missileman]

"I think it's true that we can keep taxes low and get our gov't finances in order, if you're willing to call for sufficiently deep cuts in entitlement spending. I think you should just be honest, I think Con politicians should just be honest, and call for a 50% reduction in General Welfare spending. After all, if you think that it's "inevitable," why not get out there and have the courage of your convictions? Let the Tea-Partiers go first; surely the public will swoon before their glorious vision of a government big enough only to govern the city of Washington, D.C.

There's a lot of bullshit spending to get through before we even need to look at cuts in social programs.

[Kathianne]

CATO has been studying and ran full page ads the other day:

http://www.downsizinggovernment.org/

[BoogyMan]

"Limited government" is not good for its own sake; what every society requires is a government of the appropriate size and strength to serve the people. We all agree that government's power cannot be unlimited. But that doesn't help us much when it comes to deciding on policy priorities.

I think it's true that we can keep taxes low and get our gov't finances in order, if you're willing to call for sufficiently deep cuts in entitlement spending. I think you should just be honest, I think Con politicians should just be honest, and call for a 50% reduction in General Welfare spending. After all, if you think that it's "inevitable," why not get out there and have the courage of your convictions? Let the Tea-Partiers go first; surely the public will swoon before their glorious vision of a government big enough only to govern the city of Washington, D.C.

You see, this is the kind of faith in the future typical of your average Con. This is the kind of future you get with their "every man for himself!" ideal of society. This is the kind of leadership offered by the Party of NO. It's just unbelievable that the public looks prepared to reward the Republicans for sitting on the sidelines doing nothing while the Democats have struggled mightily to clean up their mess. Are the American people really such fools? Do they have no memory at all?

If doing something equates to the spendathon buffonery you seem to be supporting, I would say that you probably are a fool. The American dream is not communal living, it is for the average individual to be able to set himself up with a life of his choosing and to see his progeny have the same kind of opportunity. It is a dream built on the work and sweat of the individuals involved, not a dream based on entitlement that oppresses those who have worked for their success.

The liberal scumbags in Washington haven't worked one day to clean up a bloody thing, they have ignored the mess created by 40 to 60 years of disasterous leadership and pressed ahead with a fools agenda that has finally brought us to the breaking point.

Rejection of a government that has taken a bad situation and looked for ways to make it worse is the fate this government has chosen for itself.

You call those who reject such idiocy fools, I will simply say that you are part of the problem.

[avatar4321]

What exactly was difficult about the "Don't make this about one group vs. another"?

I don't care whether you are Republican, Democrats, Independent, Non-affiliated, Green, whatever!

There is no way the government can continue to sustain itself with it's current spending and debt hazards. Either we are going to have to start voluntarily cutting back or the system is going to collapse leading to massive death, pain, riots, etc.

The garbage the politicians are feeding us that they will always be there to "help" us is complete bullcrap. So we need to be prepared as individuals and as a society before the whole ponzi scheme they've set up collapses on us or our children. And it will effect us no matter what party, race, creed, faith, anyone belongs to.

We can either start preparing our lives now for it. Or we can wait till it happens and let luck keep us alive.

I'd rather start preparing so we can cut back this voluntarily rather than having it collapse on us. But that involves us as individuals doing things, not waiting for the politicians because they aren't going to fix the problem. They will just punt it. There are too many people dependent on the government and they are afraid to lose their power.

We need to ween ourselves off the government. One person at a time. We have to develop self reliance, especially if we don't have it already. Having gardens to grow food might also be good. We need to be able to work and our children need to be able to work. Which means maybe playing video games isnt the best option for them all the time. We may need to sacrifice things we enjoy for our own survival and the survival of our children. And so that they might have a chance to recieve what we have foolishly squandered.

So what can we the people do as individuals to live in a way where we don't need a large, out of control Federal government?

[BoogyMan]

It doesn't matter how much you prepare on your own if the government believes at its core that the only way to deal with the issues at hand are to punitively tax the populace and continue along a path of job destruction and culture modification.

You can call for this to not be about one group vs another, but you won't be addressing anything of substance. The truth is, as I pointed out earlier, that we have had roughly 40 to 60 years of abismal leadership that has lead us to this point. What exactly about pointing that out is making this about one group or the other????

What exactly was difficult about the "Don't make this about one group vs. another"?

I don't care whether you are Republican, Democrats, Independent, Non-affiliated, Green, whatever!

There is no way the government can continue to sustain itself with it's current spending and debt hazards. Either we are going to have to start voluntarily cutting back or the system is going to collapse leading to massive death, pain, riots, etc.

The garbage the politicians are feeding us that they will always be there to "help" us is complete bullcrap. So we need to be prepared as individuals and as a society before the whole ponzi scheme they've set up collapses on us or our children. And it will effect us no matter what party, race, creed, faith, anyone belongs to.

We can either start preparing our lives now for it. Or we can wait till it happens and let luck keep us alive.

I'd rather start preparing so we can cut back this voluntarily rather than having it collapse on us. But that involves us as individuals doing things, not waiting for the politicians because they aren't going to fix the problem. They will just punt it. There are too many people dependent on the government and they are afraid to lose their power.

We need to ween ourselves off the government. One person at a time. We have to develop self reliance, especially if we don't have it already. Having gardens to grow food might also be good. We need to be able to work and our children need to be able to work. Which means maybe playing video games isnt the best option for them all the time. We may need to sacrifice things we enjoy for our own survival and the survival of our children. And so that they might have a chance to recieve what we have foolishly squandered.

So what can we the people do as individuals to live in a way where we don't need a large, out of control Federal government?

[Modus Ponens]

There's a lot of bullshit spending to get through before we even need to look at cuts in social programs.

What percentage of the budget is the wasteful spending identified by Con think tanks? That's a question I'd like answered. If you think that spending cuts can be relatively easily identified, why don't we hear Con politicians touting them - not least when they are asked point blank about it??

Anyone who tells you that we can reduce the debt by spending cuts alone, and not by new taxes, is either a fantasist or is lying to your face.

[Missileman]

What percentage of the budget is the wasteful spending identified by Con think tanks? That's a question I'd like answered. If you think that spending cuts can be relatively easily identified, why don't we hear Con politicians touting them - not least when they are asked point blank about it??

Anyone who tells you that we can reduce the debt by spending cuts alone, and not by new taxes, is either a fantasist or is lying to your face.

Spending cuts and increased revenues that can be achieved with economic growth rather than increased taxation...guess someone's been lying to your face

[Modus Ponens]

If doing something equates to the spendathon buffonery you seem to be supporting, I would say that you probably are a fool.

We believe - with reason - that if it were not for the stimulus and the bailouts, the financial system would have crashed, unemployment would have gone into the stratsophere, millions would have found themselves homeless - viz., The Great Depression II. We see you over there with your know-nothing budget-hawk hypocrisy - your man Bush doubled the debt under your watch, with never a murmur of complaint from you. Bush also oversaw of culture of crony capitalism which in multiple ways facilitated the financial debacle. The Democrats had to scramble to stop the bleeding to our economy - yes, by emergency spending measures. It wasn't pretty, but the alternative was too terrible to contemplate. If as it appears we - we - avoided the worst, all you do now is carp from the sidelines, benefitting from our success, acting as if our interventions weren't needed after all.

Pathetic. It's just more evidence, if any were required, that Cons are simply too incompetent to be trusted to govern.

The American dream is not communal living, it is for the average individual to be able to set himself up with a life of his choosing and to see his progeny have the same kind of opportunity. It is a dream built on the work and sweat of the individuals involved, not a dream based on entitlement that oppresses those who have worked for their success.

More know-nothing platitudes. You clearly have no conception of what a complex entity a modern society is; the deep and intricate ways that people are dependent upon others; the vital need that any thriving market has for the public sector; the demands that justice makes incumbent on all members, to contribute not just to their own well-being, but to the General Welfare.

Of course you'll never get it. The Cons always think first with the "what's in it for me" mentality. If your concern is with the "disasterous leadership" of the last 60 years (about the last time that real liberals were in power - so don't blame us), look no further than your self-serving mentality.

The liberal scumbags in Washington haven't worked one day to clean up a bloody thing,

Like the financial reform bill that you were lockstep against? Like cap-and-trade - which is a market instrument for reducing emissions (not that you Cons have any clue how an emissions-market works)? Like the lack of health care reform, which among other things had been killing our international competitiveness? We've tried to prepare for deficit reduction by allowing the Bush taxcuts to lapse - but it looks like you weren't about to go along with that.

Rejection of a government that has taken a bad situation and looked for ways to make it worse is the fate this government has chosen for itself.

History will record how the American electorate was fool enough to pull off the doctor who was trying to save the patient, and replace him with the perp who put the poor gal in emergency in the first place....

You call those who reject such idiocy fools, I will simply say that you are part of the problem.

History will be the judge. Sadly, it won't take long for the verdict to come in - again. The Cons are totally unfit to govern. But the independents are the least informed members of the electorate - and it looks like the Cons are going to benefit from their ignorance, one more time.

[Modus Ponens]

Spending cuts and increased revenues that can be achieved with economic growth rather than increased taxation...guess someone's been lying to your face

Yep, you're still buying the supply-side snake-oil wholesale, it appears. What a Laffer.

[Missileman]

Yep, you're still buying the supply-side snake-oil wholesale, it appears. What a Laffer.

Which is more...10% of 10,000,000 or 20% of 1,000,000?

[Missileman]

History will record how the American electorate was fool enough to pull off the doctor who was trying to save the patient, and replace him with the perp who put the poor gal in emergency in the first place....

Only if idiots are allowed to write the book. This doctor of whom you speak has poured gasoline on and set ablaze the patient whose temp was a little low.