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  1. #1
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    Default NATO Will Not Be Able To Pull Europe's Ass Out of the Fire

    It's a goner. US isn't pulling this pony alone. Turkey is a drag, Europe wants a free ride. Not going to happen:

    http://www.popularmechanics.com/tech...ance-crumbling

    Is NATO Crumbling?: Analysis
    How budget woes, lagging technology, a resurgent Russia and domestic politics are dissolving the power of a legacy military alliance.
    By Joe Pappalardo

    The war in Afghanistan is nearing the end of its ninth year, with international troops at almost full strength of 150,000, from the United States and NATO.

    Patrick Baz/AFP/Getty Images
    There will be a lot at stake at the end of November when world leaders gather for a pivotal NATO meeting in Lisbon. The meeting is meant to hash out a new Strategic Concept, an all-encompassing document issued every decade that guides the alliance's actions and priorities. The last Concept was drafted before 9/11, before the subsequent invasions of Iraq and Afghanistan and before Russia's resurgence as a regional power (and a worldwide power player.)

    NATO was smaller back then, as well, and has since adopted countries in the former Soviet Union that border Russia. It's a different world—and there is serious doubt that NATO will have the money and political fortitude to remain relevant.

    The Money

    Money troubles are nothing new to NATO, but in the midst of a worldwide recession, they're worse than ever. Right now, NATO faces a shortfall of about $700 million. Helicopters are sorely lacking, combat ships are unreliable and soldiers go into combat without the benefit of modern unmanned aerial vehicles (unless they are using the United States'.)

    Now add a grim future. The financial situation, globally, is dismal. In Europe, deficits and cutbacks are feeding street protests and layoffs. NATO members have agreed—well, never on paper—to dedicate at least 2 percent of their GDP on defense spending. But even before the financial crisis hit, only a handful of nations (yes, five of 28) were meeting that goal. The U.S. spends about 4 percent of its GDP on defense. So there's a gap there, and over the years that disconnect became a dependency. "I am specifically concerned when it comes to defense spending in Europe," NATO's secretary general Anders Fogh Rasmussen said recently. "We cannot end up in a situation where Europe cannot pull its weight when it comes to security."

    It may be too late: the military of the founding members, such as France, Germany and Britain, are becoming increasingly weak. France and Germany do not reach 2 percent threshold, and their recent diplomatic breakthrough has been the formation of a group to coordinate their upcoming military cuts. Last week France's single aircraft carrier had to turn around and return to port for repairs just days into its recent NATO mission. It will likely return to duty within a week, but the setback is more than symbolic. France is not operationally ready for serious military action.

    Britain has consistently met the 2 percent goal, but cutbacks announced this week cast some doubt over how viable the country will be as military partners. A military budget cut of nearly 10 percent is seen as fortunate: other ministries got the axe up to 25 percent. Seems reasonable, until you realize that the Ministry of Defense there already faces a 38-billion-pound shortfall in its spending plans over the next 10 years. New aircraft carriers will be built, but there will be a period when they have no carrier strike capability and overall numbers of warships and combat airplanes will be reduced. Overall, 17,000 personnel will be cut. Operations measured in years ("enduring missions") will have a limit of 6000 troops; short-term deployments are capped at 30,000...


    "The government is a child that has found their parents credit card, and spends knowing that they never have to reconcile the bill with their own money"-Shannon Churchill


  2. #2
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    As far as I'm aware, after the planned cuts our defence will be about 2.5% GDP, a modest level above that requested. But I guess it means nothing if we're the only European nation keeping to the guidelines.
    If you also agree that an animals suffering should be avoided rather than encouraged, consider what steps you can take.

  3. #3
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    Nato cant pull our ass out of the fire either.

    And we are in much more serious trouble than Europe. We just dont all realize it yet.
    If we were as industrious to become good as to make ourselves great, we should become really great by being good, and the number of valuable men would be much increased; but it is a grand mistake to think of being great without goodness; and i pronounce it as certain that there was never yet a truly great man that was not at the same time truly virtuous." - Ben Franklin

    Imagine what good we can do if we all joined together, united as followers of Christ - M. Russell Ballard

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by avatar4321 View Post
    Nato cant pull our ass out of the fire either.

    And we are in much more serious trouble than Europe. We just dont all realize it yet.
    If we need NATO, wouldn't matter anyways. Seriously.


    "The government is a child that has found their parents credit card, and spends knowing that they never have to reconcile the bill with their own money"-Shannon Churchill


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    NATO's to busy raping HIV infected women and children in Africa.

    far as western EU goes they're Titanic is going down by the head. we're much better off

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    Quote Originally Posted by namvet View Post
    NATO's to busy raping HIV infected women and children in Africa.
    I thought that was the UN.

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    Quote Originally Posted by fj1200 View Post
    I thought that was the UN.
    Yeah, but it's the sentiment not the details for some people.


    "The government is a child that has found their parents credit card, and spends knowing that they never have to reconcile the bill with their own money"-Shannon Churchill


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    Quote Originally Posted by fj1200 View Post
    I thought that was the UN.
    duh my goof

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kathianne View Post
    It's a goner. US isn't pulling this pony alone. Turkey is a drag, Europe wants a free ride. Not going to happen:

    http://www.popularmechanics.com/tech...ance-crumbling
    Bump.

    NATO still relevant?
    "when socialism fails, blame capitalism and demand more socialism." - A friend
    "You know the difference between libs and right-wingers? Libs STFU when evidence refutes their false beliefs." - Another friend
    “Don't waste your time with explanations: people only hear what they want to hear.” - Paulo Coelho


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    Quote Originally Posted by fj1200 View Post
    Bump.

    NATO still relevant?
    I guess they just needed the smoke blowing Obama, followed by the smash 'em up Trump, followed by an addled gifted Biden to really put it together. For now, color me impressed.
    Last edited by Kathianne; 03-08-2022 at 12:24 AM.


    "The government is a child that has found their parents credit card, and spends knowing that they never have to reconcile the bill with their own money"-Shannon Churchill


  11. Thanks fj1200, Gunny thanked this post
  12. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kathianne View Post
    I guess they just needed the smoke blowing Obama, followed by the smash 'em up Trump, followed by an addled gifted Biden to really put it together. For now, color me impressed.
    Yes'm.
    "when socialism fails, blame capitalism and demand more socialism." - A friend
    "You know the difference between libs and right-wingers? Libs STFU when evidence refutes their false beliefs." - Another friend
    “Don't waste your time with explanations: people only hear what they want to hear.” - Paulo Coelho


  13. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kathianne View Post
    I guess they just needed the smoke blowing Obama, followed by the smash 'em up Trump, followed by an addled gifted Biden to really put it together. For now, color me impressed.
    Irony. Turkey was the drag and Europe indifferent at the time of the OP.

    WHo resembles THAT remark most NOW?
    “When bad men combine, the good must associate; else they will fall, one by one, an unpitied sacrifice in a contemptible struggle.” Edumnd Burke

  14. Thanks Kathianne thanked this post

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