My, My It Seems Wikileaks Also Show That All Those Intelligence Agencies Were Right

[darin]

To think, if Saddam had merely complied with the terms of his surrender/cease fire in Gulf War I, Gulf War II wouldn't have happened.

[Kathianne]

To think, if Saddam had merely complied with the terms of his surrender/cease fire in Gulf War I, Gulf War II wouldn't have happened.

That was succinct and spot on.

[revelarts]

To think, if Saddam had merely complied with the terms of his surrender/cease fire in Gulf War I, Gulf War II wouldn't have happened.

Is that why we went to war?
Because they broke the surrender agreement? I don't think so.

But lets take that road.
The disarming Iraq of WMD's was the core part of the resolutions.

I hate to give the U.N. any credit but the U.N. Inspectors told the world that there were no W.M.D.s.
But Bush and Blair "fixed", "misread" or "were mislead by" other intel and told us otherwise. ( I say Fixed but won't debate the point with you here)
the point is the UN inspectors said they had no WMDs which was the point of the resolutions and agreements.

So were back where we started.

"MUSHROOM CLOUD!!"
"26,000 liters of VX!!"

etc etc

[BoogyMan]

Indeedy, it seems time has played with my memory (I was 12 at the time) the claim was Britons could be attacked in 45mins.

Heres the full timeline, it was at the core of the drive to get public support for the war

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/3466005.stm

I had never heard that one. You guys are much closer to Iraq than America is.

It seems the claim was a tad more generic than the original version you posted but does certainly include the 45 minute claim.

[Kathianne]

Is that why we went to war?
Because they broke the surrender agreement? I don't think so.

But lets take that road.
The disarming Iraq of WMD's was the core part of the resolutions.

I hate to give the U.N. any credit but the U.N. Inspectors told the world that there were no W.M.D.s.
But Bush and Blair "fixed", "misread" or "were mislead by" other intel and told us otherwise. ( I say Fixed but won't debate the point with you here)
the point is the UN inspectors said they had no WMDs which was the point of the resolutions and agreements.

So were back where we started.

"MUSHROOM CLOUD!!"
"26,000 liters of VX!!"

etc etc

9/11 made waiting for Saddam's death pointless and dangerous. He should have been knocked off in '92. But he wasn't. The no fly zone was always a joke, UK and US at fault with that.

[Noir]

I had never heard that one. You guys are much closer to Iraq than America is.

It seems the claim was a tad more generic than the original version you posted but does certainly include the 45 minute claim.

Yep, ofcourse our media was no so easily fooled, and reported on the JIC report objectively and cautiously....

[revelarts]

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[PostmodernProphet]

Is that why we went to war?
Because they broke the surrender agreement? I don't think so.

But lets take that road.
The disarming Iraq of WMD's was the core part of the resolutions.

I hate to give the U.N. any credit but the U.N. Inspectors told the world that there were no W.M.D.s.

????...true, they made that precise claim about six months after the war began, as I recall.....the report they gave just before the war began concluded that Saddam still was not cooperating.....you can verify this by reading the dated reports at the UN website if you don't believe me......

[NightTrain]

????...true, they made that precise claim about six months after the war began, as I recall.....the report they gave just before the war began concluded that Saddam still was not cooperating.....you can verify this by reading the dated reports at the UN website if you don't believe me......

Exactly.

Everyone involved said he had the weapons prior to the invasion, especially the UN inspectors led by Hans Blix.

The buildup on the border of coalition forces for several months allowed enough time for the removal of the weapons and off they went.

[SpidermanTUba]

Saddam used his WMDs previously, it was a documented fact. He'd used them against Iranians and against rebellious Iraqis, that was why we established the 'No Fly Zone'.

Uhh, no dude.

The U.S. was Iraqs ally back when Hussein was using chemical weapons on Iranians and Kurds. No one gave a damn who Hussein gassed until he threatened the Kuwaiti oil.

[revelarts]

There where inspections, they resumed in 2002 November well before the war start (March 19 2003) as well as the one you refer to PMP.

NightTrain In early March Blix said he had little or no problem. And they they could find nothing. What they couldn't do was come up with a paper trail of everything that was destroyed by the coalition forces. And No hidden underground facilities found after using radar in the suspected areas or mobile units after spot checks. None.



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I know major Scott Ritter is not the most popular guy here but he was right. He was there on the ground viewing the destruction and inspecting the sites. From 1991-1998 I think. We cleaned Saddam's house. Major Doug Rockke Confirms this, He was the hands on Medical Army guy chosen to deal with the stuff. He and many of his men are sick today becuase of the stuff they had to clean up, Iraqi and Coalition. But Rockke didn't/doesn't think Saddam had any more left after they where done. (Rockke's got a beef with the army not taking care of him and his men after the fact but that's another story). Basically there was no real evidence that there where any WMD's, only assertions and speculations by "various intelligence agencies" . As said so many times during the run up to war, Iraq was being asked to prove a negative. Prove to me you don't own a gun.


And again I have to point out that we didn't go to war over, his lack of cooperating with U.N. or cease fire agrements. We don't comply with all u.N. Agreements and we shouldn't. Israel doesn't comply with all U.N. resolutions and they shouldn't either. We don't go to war over none compliance of international agreements without violent provocation.. We went to war becuase BUSH and BLAIR "KNEW", and convinced us, that there were TONS of WMD's.

NiightTrain
Apparently Blix's report was misread or he's talking out of both sides of his mouth becuase he has testified that the intel that Bush and Blair used was shabby. I'm listening to the some of the testimony now he gave a a British inquiry just to make sure the summery C-span gives below is correct.
C-SPAN
http://www.c-spanvideo.org/program/295001-1

Former United Nations weapons inspector Hans Blix testified before the British Iraq Inquiry. He told the five-member panel that the invasion of Iraq was illegal and that the U.S. and Britain relied on poor intelligence sources leading up to the 2003 invasion. He said that inspectors failed to uncover any weapons of mass destruction in Iraq and that the U.S. was dismissive of opposing views. The British Iraq inquiry was an independent panel examining British involvement in the war and the circumstances which led to it, and would issue a report which would subsequently be debated in Parliament.

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I didn't want to talk about this but,
Night train "everybody" didn't know that Saddam had weapons or hard sure plans to get weapons. the Only people who claimed that where the loud minority of Bush, Blair and crew a few misinformed reporters, a few CIA yes men and significantly the Pentagons -Office of Special Plans- group craved out of the pentagon to "fix" the intel that way. There's the leaked Downing st. Memo that shows they wanted the intel for an excuse to invade. ANd would have invaded despite evidence. Blair was so concerned that the U.N. inspectors would not find anything, that Bush suggested they could possible provoke Saddam to attack a U.N. fly over to justify a war. ALREADY PLANNED TO START ON MARCH 10.

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I won't discuss the fixing of intel aspect of this again to anyone unless they listen to or read transcripts of the C-SPAN interview below.
It's the head of C-Span on April 2, 2006 with Lt. Col. Karen Kwiatkowski
U.S. Air Force, 1983-2003.
She worked in the Pentagon Middle East desk and saw the real intel and saw the "alternative" intel being feed to the masses. She's was raised republican - of the Barry Goldwater strip- but now considers herself a libertarian. And loves the military and her country.

general info
http://www.q-and-a.org/Program/?ProgramID=1069

video
http://www.q-and-a.org/Video/?ProgramID=1069

transcript
http://www.q-and-a.org/Transcript/?ProgramID=1069


Until you watch or read her I'm not replying to anything else on the fixing vs misleading intel issue. if your just going to deny her story without looking for it. And Deny the Downing St. Memo too. That's fine. But when you want to correct me on facts I'll reply. I'm open to any real info.


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[revelarts]

Oh yeah
As far as Iraq MOVING WMD's before the war.
Wheres the proof?
I've heard and read people say that they were sent to Syria.
O.K. if Syria now has WMD's why arn't inspectors there digging in the sand in factories etc. Aren't they a terrorist state as well.

If we are really after WMD's and that's where we KNOW they went.

But you may be right there may be a canisters or 2 there as well. Still it's not enough to go to war with a 2nd or 3rd world middle eastern country who are really not a threat to us and has never attacked us at all.

[NightTrain]

No, you're off base, Revel.

This exact scenario you've presented me with is precisely why I burned out with debating for a few years.

Jim and I and a few others hashed and rehashed the same debates hundreds of times at the previous board, and the board before that one with a new guy that would come in with the same tired, incorrect timelines, kooky conspiracy theories and info.

I can probably find some of my old posts and copy it here for you - there is nothing new that you've said above that I haven't already addressed a hundred times and I don't need the practice anymore.

I'll look into it tomorrow.

[Noir]

The buildup on the border of coalition forces for several months allowed enough time for the removal of the weapons and off they went.

So follow them.

[Kathianne]

No, you're off base, Revel.

This exact scenario you've presented me with is precisely why I burned out with debating for a few years.

Jim and I and a few others hashed and rehashed the same debates hundreds of times at the previous board, and the board before that one with a new guy that would come in with the same tired, incorrect timelines, kooky conspiracy theories and info.

I can probably find some of my old posts and copy it here for you - there is nothing new that you've said above that I haven't already addressed a hundred times and I don't need the practice anymore.

I'll look into it tomorrow.

Stated well. I came to the conclusion if I were to continue to enjoy reading and sharing some issues, I just wasn't going to rehash all the old topics. Been there and done that, realized that no matter how much data one found, those who wanted to cling to their tinfoil would. Now I post what I find interesting, banter a bit with those I like, and find my blood pressure much more where it should be.

I look into issues more deeply-for myself.