Health Law Faces Threat of Undercut From Courts

[Psychoblues]

This could be significant. The people have voted and they have voted for healthcare reform. The best that could be brought out of congress was delivered up for passage and it was passed. Much of what is bad in the law was insisted upon by a conservative minority. Then they voted against it anyway. That is another subject but this will jump up like a rattlesnake and bite them on the ass in a few years.


source: New York Times
by Kevin Sack and Robert Pear
Nov. 26, 2010

WASHINGTON — As the Obama administration presses ahead with the health care law, officials are bracing for the possibility that a federal judge in Virginia will soon reject its central provision as unconstitutional and, in the worst case for the White House, halt its enforcement until higher courts can rule.

The judge, Henry E. Hudson of Federal District Court in Richmond, has promised to rule by the end of the year on the constitutionality of the law’s requirement that most Americans obtain insurance, which takes effect in 2014.

Although administration officials remain confident that it is constitutionally valid to compel people to obtain health insurance, they also acknowledge that Judge Hudson’s preliminary opinions and comments could presage the first ruling against the law.

“He’s asked a number of questions that express skepticism,” said one administration official who is examining whether a ruling against part of the law would undermine other provisions. “We have been trying to think through that set of questions,” said the official, who insisted on anonymity because he was not authorized to discuss the case freely............................................ .............................


Much, much more: http://www.nytimes.com/2010/11/27/us...h.html?_r=2&hp

Well worth the time and the read. I choose to remain more optimistic than the article reflects.

Psychoblues

[BoogyMan]

The people have voted for reform, not for the enormous albatross Mr. Obama hung around the necks of middle America.

[Kathianne]

Regardless of which partisan is trying to interpret the 'will of the people' via a voting cycle, the question is the constitutionality of compelling individuals into a contract to buy a good or service, whether they want to or not. Show me where in Article I that power given to the legislature?

[Kathianne]

Constitutional lawyers and law-makers far smarter and better educated than me will have to answer that question, Kath. The House and Senate that passed that legislation were convinced it would pass muster even if it had to go the long way around to it.

Psychoblues

I'll agree they did, won't be the first time they were wrong though and the courts trimed their wings. There are limits to those two clauses, seems that mandating contracts should be one of them.

[Psychoblues]

I'll agree they did, won't be the first time they were wrong though and the courts trimed their wings. There are limits to those two clauses, seems that mandating contracts should be one of them.

I was hoping for Medicare for everybody. I see people all the time talking about how broke that system is but it still costs less than typical private insurance plans and it applies to the oldest and sickest people in the nation. Insuring everyone in the Medicare system would alleviate that upside down pressure and everyone will benefit, IMHO.

Certainly there will be those that want out of the system and I would support their opting out so long as they would sign a waiver completely eliminating themselves from the tax-payer supported health system.

Psychoblues

[Kathianne]

I was hoping for Medicare for everybody. I see people all the time talking about how broke that system is but it still costs less than typical private insurance plans and it applies to the oldest and sickest people in the nation. Insuring everyone in the Medicare system would alleviate that upside down pressure and everyone will benefit, IMHO.

Certainly there will be those that want out of the system and I would support their opting out so long as they would sign a waiver completely eliminating themselves from the tax-payer supported health system.

Psychoblues

Ah, but those people that want to 'opt out' are amongst the healthiest people around. How to cover the sickest without the healthiest at try and sell the savings?

The 'uninsured' are not necessarily uninsurable, therein lies the problem. The vast majority are in their teen through early 30's, either looking for their first job or inbetween jobs. The 'uninsurable' are a differnt case, one we all agree needed to be included in the 'reform', but this plan went way beyond that and now they'll have to sort it out.

[Psychoblues]

The people have voted for reform, not for the enormous albatross Mr. Obama hung around the necks of middle America.

I disagree that it is such, BM. President Obama gave up on a number of good ideas like a public option, Medicare nationwide, and hundreds of specifics. It is all in the public records and ready to be made more public when the time is right for it. Right now it would be correctly ignored. Other than political junkies like us the nation is just exhausted on this subject.

Psychoblues

Regardless of which partisan is trying to interpret the 'will of the people' via a voting cycle, the question is the constitutionality of compelling individuals into a contract to buy a good or service, whether they want to or not. Show me where in Article I that power given to the legislature?

Constitutional lawyers and law-makers far smarter and better educated than me will have to answer that question, Kath. The House and Senate that passed that legislation were convinced it would pass muster even if it had to go the long way around to it.

Psychoblues

[BoogyMan]

I disagree that it is such, BM. President Obama gave up on a number of good ideas like a public option, Medicare nationwide, and hundreds of specifics. It is all in the public records and ready to be made more public when the time is right for it. Right now it would be correctly ignored. Other than political junkies like us the nation is just exhausted on this subject.

Psychoblues

PB, look around you, the only people happy about the healthcare law are the ideologues who see it as a stepping stone to the full socialization of healthcare in America.

Are you actually giving me a "pass it to know what is in it" kind of argument?

[Psychoblues]

PB, look around you, the only people happy about the healthcare law are the ideologues who see it as a stepping stone to the full socialization of healthcare in America.

Are you actually giving me a "pass it to know what is in it" kind of argument?

You do not mention the millions of progressives and liberals that reject the plans and programs passed by the Congress and President as being too accommodating to the insurance industries and not sensitive enough to the needs of the population and the healthcare providers that treat them.

Personally, I don't give a flying fuck about what any reichwinger thinks or says about this issue at this point. As much as they might disagree they had their time in the markup of the legislation. They chose to be disagreeable for the simple purpose of being disagreeable and that is made very clear in only shallow study of the speeches from the respective floors. Deep study leaves no doubt.

Psychoblues

[red states rule]

You do not mention the millions of progressives and liberals that reject the plans and programs passed by the Congress and President as being too accommodating to the insurance industries and not sensitive enough to the needs of the population and the healthcare providers that treat them.

Personally, I don't give a flying fuck about what any reichwinger thinks or says about this issue at this point. As much as they might disagree they had their time in the markup of the legislation. They chose to be disagreeable for the simple purpose of being disagreeable and that is made very clear in only shallow study of the speeches from the respective floors. Deep study leaves no doubt.

Psychoblues

At least you are acting like your leaders Obama, Reid, and Pelosi OB. You do not care what the voters say about Obamacare even after they fired many of the Dems who voted for it

So what Obamacare adds trillions to the debt?

So what is the cost of helathcare increases?

So what if care has to be rationed?

So what if a majority want Obamacare repealed?

Mere details right?

[KitchenKitten99]

You do not mention the millions of progressives and liberals that reject the plans and programs passed by the Congress and President as being too accommodating to the insurance industries and not sensitive enough to the needs of the population and the healthcare providers that treat them.

Personally, I don't give a flying fuck about what any reichwinger thinks or says about this issue at this point. As much as they might disagree they had their time in the markup of the legislation. They chose to be disagreeable for the simple purpose of being disagreeable and that is made very clear in only shallow study of the speeches from the respective floors. Deep study leaves no doubt.

Psychoblues

One of the greatest quotes of movie history can sum up these statements:

"Desperation is a STINKY cologne..."

[fj1200]

This could be significant. The people have voted and they have voted for healthcare reform.

I guess I missed it when it was on the ballot.

[SassyLady]

I guess I missed it when it was on the ballot.

I am a non-person, I did not vote for gov funded healthcare.

[Psychoblues]

I am a non-person, I did not vote for gov funded healthcare.

Just because the election was not unanimous, MKP, does not mean that you are a non person. And I know of no insurance, Medicare or whatever, that is exactly government funded.

Psychoblues

[red states rule]

This could be significant. The people have voted and they have voted for healthcare reform. The best that could be brought out of congress was delivered up for passage and it was passed. Much of what is bad in the law was insisted upon by a conservative minority. Then they voted against it anyway. That is another subject but this will jump up like a rattlesnake and bite them on the ass in a few years.


source: New York Times
by Kevin Sack and Robert Pear
Nov. 26, 2010

WASHINGTON — As the Obama administration presses ahead with the health care law, officials are bracing for the possibility that a federal judge in Virginia will soon reject its central provision as unconstitutional and, in the worst case for the White House, halt its enforcement until higher courts can rule.

The judge, Henry E. Hudson of Federal District Court in Richmond, has promised to rule by the end of the year on the constitutionality of the law’s requirement that most Americans obtain insurance, which takes effect in 2014.

Although administration officials remain confident that it is constitutionally valid to compel people to obtain health insurance, they also acknowledge that Judge Hudson’s preliminary opinions and comments could presage the first ruling against the law.

“He’s asked a number of questions that express skepticism,” said one administration official who is examining whether a ruling against part of the law would undermine other provisions. “We have been trying to think through that set of questions,” said the official, who insisted on anonymity because he was not authorized to discuss the case freely............................................ .............................


Much, much more: http://www.nytimes.com/2010/11/27/us...h.html?_r=2&hp

Well worth the time and the read. I choose to remain more optimistic than the article reflects.

Psychoblues

Every poll I have seen shows more then 50% want Obmacare repealed.

It was Dems who were preventing its passage, and that is why we had Reid and Pelosi openly handing out bribes to buy their votes. Some got "stimulus" money, others got waivers where their state would be exempt from Obamacare

Nowhere in the US Constitution does it state the Feds can force a private citizen to buy any product/service under threat of fines and jail

We see the cost of care going up, Obamacare will bust the budget and ad to the deficit, and insurance companies are cutting coverage.

All because of Obamacare

OK PB, now you can post how all of these FACTS are lies, madeup, and taken out of context as you usually do