When will Gabrielle Giffords be transferred to a hospital in Cuba or Canada?

[Psychoblues]

I'm reposting this because I would love for someone to tell me how these are........


Once again one sight simply lists medical malpractice insurance rates and the AAFP states that we have a Dr. shortage. The other one talks about the changes that will take place when the gov. changes the reimbursement rates on Medicare and Medicaid and ties them to satisfaction surveys.

There is No opinion here. I've sat through hospital meetings about the reimbursement changes. They are coming, that isn't fear mongering, it's fact.

It's to bad that you are so in the hip pocket of the dems that you can't differentiate between fact and fear mongering.

Yes. It is almost completely fearmongering and opinion. The ulterior motives for those reports and organizations are without doubt in opposition to healthcare reform. For what reason I would be afraid to speculate but I think it might be associated with profit and the way the systems weaknesses have been exploited in the past. IMHO when the lying and stealing is stopped and reforming is complete we will be a much better and healthier society for it.

Again, Trigg, I refer you back to the non-partisan and apolitical Wikipedia links that I gave you or do you just want to stamp your feet and keep yelling for someone to back up your clearly biased medical opinions. I am not going to go any further reading your articles and you can refuse to even consider Wikipedia. Makes no difference to me.

Psychoblues

[red states rule]

Yes. It is almost completely fearmongering and opinion. The ulterior motives for those reports and organizations are without doubt in opposition to healthcare reform. For what reason I would be afraid to speculate but I think it might be associated with profit and the way the systems weaknesses have been exploited in the past. IMHO when the lying and stealing is stopped and reforming is complete we will be a much better and healthier society for it.

Again, Trigg, I refer you back to the non-partisan and apolitical Wikipedia links that I gave you or do you just want to stamp your feet and keep yelling for someone to back up your clearly biased medical opinions. I am not going to go any further reading your articles and you can refuse to even consider Wikipedia. Makes no difference to me.

Psychoblues

So folks, PB would rather let power hungry politicans decide how health care in America is provided then meical professionals who are trained in that area

The nerve of people going to college, medical school, and investing moeny to start a medical procatice and want to make a PROFIT!!!

Yes, in PB's world medical professionals should operate a charity and give their services away after spending years foing to school and investing hundreds of thousands of dolars in their education

[Psychoblues]

Trigg, I just wanted to clear something up with you. I do agree there are some, as you say, FACTS shared in your articles. They really can't be argued with but the conclusions, forecasts, projections, etc. are every bit opinion and nothing more. And some of the FACTS as you call them are no more than observations and subsequent interpretations. There again we have opinions, not FACTS. I desparately want competent and reasonable healthcare for all Americans. We, of all nations on Earth, should be able to settle our political squabbles and achieve that. And I hope you and NukeMan haave very long and very prosperous careers. No one expects any less for you than that.

Psychoblues

[fj1200]

In the case of healthcare, probably any public utility such as power, water, roadways, etc, we may simply have to agree to disagree. I have already seen all of these come out from under direct government control and costs immediately begin to go up and then soar to the point that the population demanded in many cases to return to a more sensible approach. Most times that means at least more stringent oversight and verificational operations from the government if not a full return to governmental agency level operation and administration.

But it's not a public utility, you may want it to but that doesn't make it such. It's not a "natural monopoly" created by a government entity. The deregulation of the late '70s provided better services at lower costs.

I do not follow Dem talking points therefore I reject your accusal that I repeat them as such. If I do have any propensities towards repetition it is similar if not exactly like any poster here and that is what we all read and hear from the media and otherwise. There are no original thoughts here. Just different ways of expressing old ones. IMHO.

I can only point out what I see.

I totally disagree with you that the Patients Rights and Cost Reduction Act is any mistake on top of mistakes. I hear the whining and groaning and the lies and slurs put forth by the rightwingers that do not like the change even though most of the rightwingers supported this practically exact bill in 1996 as presented by then Senator Bob Dole. Tell me it ain't partisan or political. Although it would take some fairly elementary but at least time consuming research for me to give you links to the vast majority of the medical org's and professionals that support the legislation, I simply don't want to do that. Instead I encourage you to follow the links into Wikipedia that I have already provided and the hundreds of links that you might find from there. Understanding the healthcare crises and healthcare legislation in this country would take many PhD's and their subsequent educations to fully comprehend but the Cliff's notes versions in Wikipedia are balanced, relentlessly scoured for accuracy and very easily available to you.

What acts of regulation and furthering government controls have ended well? Medicare? Medicaid? Social Security is on sound footing? I've looked at plenty of links regarding health care but a basic knowledge of economics is all that's required to see into the crystal ball. Like I said, Wikipedia just parrots the bills intents and its new regulations.

True free market? Every indication to the world's most renowned economists and expressed by them is that mixed markets are bad enough, true free markets would eat themselves and the rest of us up to the point of total financial collapse in a very short time. You, fj, have an extremely short memory. The mortgage and financial industries didn't collapse due to regulation or governmental interference, they collapsed due to the lack of it.

"Every indication," "most renowned"? Those are quite the grand statements that just can't be refuted now can they?

And, yes they did.

[Psychoblues]

But it's not a public utility, you may want it to but that doesn't make it such. It's not a "natural monopoly" created by a government entity. The deregulation of the late '70s provided better services at lower costs.



I can only point out what I see.



What acts of regulation and furthering government controls have ended well? Medicare? Medicaid? Social Security is on sound footing? I've looked at plenty of links regarding health care but a basic knowledge of economics is all that's required to see into the crystal ball. Like I said, Wikipedia just parrots the bills intents and its new regulations.



"Every indication," "most renowned"? Those are quite the grand statements that just can't be refuted now can they?

And, yes they did.

I'm just so weary of this thread and all the round and round and round without getting anywhere. I could argue every point you're making but most of it has already been addressed. What say we call it a tie or better yet I'll just accept defeat, see if I can get myself checked into a Mexican convalescence/rehab center and rest up awhile. I'll give you some positive rep as soon as I can. The machine won't let me do it right now.

Thanks for your excellent thinking skills and committed thread responses, fj200. I hope we can do this kind of banter more often.

Psychoblues

[fj1200]

I hope we can do this kind of banter more often.

This kind is better for the soul than the other.

[Palin Rider]

This kind is better for the soul than the other.

You really suck at picking up on sarcasm, don't you?

Then again, you suck at almost every rhetorical tactic.

[Psychoblues]

You really suck at picking up on sarcasm, don't you?

Then again, you suck at almost every rhetorical tactic.

No, no, PR. Although part of my statement was sarcastic the part about the banter was not. fj and I have lots of arguments and disagreements we will never resolve but based on a few things I've seen said lately and my own purpose for yet another style of posting I really do look forward to some friendly mental jousting. Even with you, PR, you're a hard-headed bitch, too!!!!!!

Goddamit, yall be niiiiiiice!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Psychoblues

[fj1200]

You really suck at picking up on sarcasm, don't you?

Then again, you suck at almost every rhetorical tactic.

You should try posting when you have all the facts so...

PB.

[red states rule]

You should try posting when you have all the facts so...

PB.

and when he is sober

[fj1200]

and when he is sober

The first line was to PR, the salute to PB was genuine.

[red states rule]

The first line was to PR, the salute to PB was genuine.

O know that

PR and PB are both drunk. PR on the Obama Kool Aid and PB on whatever is on sale at the liguor store

Both ignore another reason to repeal Obamaccare. All the tax increases that were in the bill

So much for Dems "promise" not to raise taxes on those making less the $250,000/yr

Individual Mandate Excise Tax

Employer Mandate Tax

Surtax on Investment Income

Medicine Cabinet Tax

HSA Withdrawal Tax Hike

Flexible Spending Account Cap – aka“Special Needs Kids Tax”

Tax on Medical Device Manufacturers

Raise "Haircut" for Medical Itemized Deduction from 7.5% to 10% of AGI

Tax on Indoor Tanning Services

Elimination of tax deduction for employer-provided retirement Rx drug coverage in coordination with Medicare Part D

Blue Cross/Blue Shield Tax Hike

Excise Tax on Charitable Hospitals

Tax on Innovator Drug Companies

Tax on Health Insurers

$500,000 Annual Executive Compensation Limit for Health Insurance Executives

Employer Reporting of Insurance on W-2

Corporate 1099-MISC Information Reporting
“Black liquor” tax hike

Codification of the “economic substance doctrine”

http://www.atr.org/comprehensive-lis...amacare-a5758#

[Kathianne]

O know that

PR and PB are both drunk. PR on the Obama Kool Aid and PB on whatever is on sale at the liguor store

Both ignore another reason to repeal Obamaccare. All the tax increases that were in the bill

So much for Dems "promise" not to raise taxes on those making less the $250,000/yr

If PR spent his time forming arguments on issues, rather than blindly attacking others with immature logical fallacies, he would be an asset to the board. Not much hope in that, but whatever.

PB has been making attempts to make his positions clear in recent months. At this point in time I don't care for the personal attacks on what may or may not have been problems in the past. I think he deserves reasonable responses as long as he's giving the same. If he continues to post in generalities, I personally haven't much to add in the way of arguments, but he seems willing to give more specificity a chance.

[Palin Rider]

If PR spent his time forming arguments on issues, rather than blindly attacking others with immature logical fallacies, he would be an asset to the board. Not much hope in that, but whatever.

I make a point of responding to the true idiots around here by striking back just as hard. You expect me to ignore them, and the fact that I don't upsets you no end - but whatever.

That said, you're free to question me on an issue at any time.

[Palin Rider]

I really do look forward to some friendly mental jousting. Even with you, PR, you're a hard-headed bitch, too!!!!!

Indeed I am!