When did we stop educating people?

[actsnoblemartin]

when did we decide the state should tell people what to think instead of how to think on various important issues that affect us every day, and instead teach them, their is only way one way of thinking, and that those who want more rights, are racist, homophobic, and stupid, rather then looking in the mirror, they might actually see that in themselves

[gabosaurus]

Don't worry Martin. I am sure it is not entirely your fault that you didn't get educated.

[NightTrain]

Fortunately, Martin, you've never said anything like this :

You have to remember that, as an upper tier university, Cal is very selective and very expensive. You can't be stupid and get into Cal. It is only for elite students.
I attended Cal on an academic scholarship. I got two degrees there.

[gabosaurus]

Martin never said that because he can't.
What is your dispute with that statement. It is 100 percent factual. Now if you want to be envious, go right ahead.

[NightTrain]

Martin never said that because he can't.
What is your dispute with that statement. It is 100 percent factual. Now if you want to be envious, go right ahead.

Envious? Stop, you're killing me!

That's even better due to the fact that you have no idea what's wrong it it. Bravo!

[Nukeman]

when did we decide the state should tell people what to think instead of how to think on various important issues that affect us every day, and instead teach them, their is only way one way of thinking, and that those who want more rights, are racist, homophobic, and stupid, rather then looking in the mirror, they might actually see that in themselves

Actually martin the "educating" of our students stopped when we started teaching for "standardized" test. Instead of teaching general knowledge our education system depends to highly on "the test" in order to get funding and show how "smart" or "dumb" the students are in any particular area.

I hate to say it but we really need to get back to basics of reading, writing, and arithmetic... Too much emphasis is placed onthe standardized test. period!

Can you use standardized test?? sure but don't make your funding based on it. We shouldn't be teaching for the questions on the test we should be teaching the understanding of the questions on the test.

My wife and I supplement all the public school education for our children, we may not do it in test type material but we always relay to them that they need to understand WHY something is done a particual way and to look for alternate ways of doing things (there never is just one way). We also encourge them to look at the opposite or opposing view point of what they are being told/taught.

[gabosaurus]

Nukeman, I couldn't agree with you more. Unfortunately, we have state and local boards of education who have stipulated that these standardized tests are the accepted measures of knowledge. Instructors whose classes do not pass a certain ratio of students risk losing their jobs. Thus, they teach the tests instead of their subjects.
I would love to encourage more teaching that is "outside the box." That is why I am for hiring better teachers and smaller class sizes. There is more room for individual instruction and interaction.

[NightTrain]

That is why I am for hiring better teachers and smaller class sizes. There is more room for individual instruction and interaction.

What a novel thought. If only everyone else thought so, too.

[OldMercsRule]

Dunno if the problem with education is about the focus on testing, methinks the problem is lack of competition.

Modern Liberals devoted to Central Corntrol, (like Gabby), are fully invested in the party of dim wit Democrats, n' use NEA corntroled Public education as their power base fer BOTH funding, (forced from the pay checks of even Cornservative teachers), and propaganda. FORCED union dues go nearly totally to dim wit Democrats who stiffle any competition with laws et al.

They pervert the language, n' teach all aspects and acceptability of other elements of their Progressive power base, (all aspects of homosexuality; [Gay which is a propaganda based perversion of the English language]), instead of reading, 'ritin' n' 'rethmetic.

If ya look at Catholic schools, which use larger class size n' lower pay/benifits fer teachers; the achedemic results are much better then the NEA dominated schools.

Me overpriced $.02. JR

[Nukeman]

Nukeman, I couldn't agree with you more. Unfortunately, we have state and local boards of education who have stipulated that these standardized tests are the accepted measures of knowledge. Instructors whose classes do not pass a certain ratio of students risk losing their jobs. Thus, they teach the tests instead of their subjects.
I would love to encourage more teaching that is "outside the box." That is why I am for hiring better teachers and smaller class sizes. There is more room for individual instruction and interaction.

I think we as a nation need to get away from a "teaching certificate". Just becasue you went to college for a degree in teaching does not make you an educator. There are so many individuals out there that can teach and impart thier skills, yet they are denied this due to NOT having a teaching certificate, as if a piece of paper will suddenly make them a better teacher...

IMHO the biggest detriment to our education system is the Teachers Union!! Of course this is my opinion!! They rely too much on a certificate and not enough on good solid people with a background in their respective fields!

It pathetic that someone who works in their respective field for decades, and taught all new hires, is some how NOT qualified to teach in the academic setting. I for one have been in my choosen profession for 22 years and have trained MANY individual and would love to establish a new program at one of the small private colleges around me. The draw back is obtaining my MEd. which is rather cost prohibitive, would it make me a better instructor?? NO! Would it change how I impart my expertise in my field? NO! It just doesn't add anything to my credentials except a piece of paper and a lot of debt.

The debt I can ill afford at this time with MY children starting college this fall....

[logroller]

Nukeman, I couldn't agree with you more. Unfortunately, we have state and local boards of education who have stipulated that these standardized tests are the accepted measures of knowledge. Instructors whose classes do not pass a certain ratio of students risk losing their jobs. Thus, they teach the tests instead of their subjects.
I would love to encourage more teaching that is "outside the box." That is why I am for hiring better teachers and smaller class sizes. There is more room for individual instruction and interaction.

Unfortunately, this solution isn't so easy to implement in light of teachers' status and pay being directly tied to years of service, making it nearly impossible to fire a tenured teacher who continually performs poorly. Quantifying performance is a necessary step to this end. The issue is indeed rather the tests are accurate measures of performance. Another overlooked aspect is why the responsibility for performance rest solely on the teacher and school? My wife works in a primary school, and test results are sub-par, but if my wife gives homework to a poor performer-- you think the parents take any initiative to help their child? Rarely. Somewhere we became convinced that everyone deserves a college degree, even when no interest or capability is demonstrated. I'd say what we need is an early assessment of vocational skills. To quote Judge Smails "The world needs ditchdiggers too!"