Two Views of History

[TheSage]

I agree Dillo, but it has been that way for the last 40 years. Its not just Bush, I think its the beaucrats in washington doing a lot of covering because they are all incompitent.

Beaucrats are a very entrenched part of our government. They are extremely hard to fire and can't be voted out. They each have their own agenda and have to continually justify their position of power in order to keep that power. A lot of the secrecy comes from that group and I'm sure the president and congress can't do alot with or about them. I wonder how many things go on even the president is not aware of.

It's not just bush, but bush definitely is included in this cabal. That asshat, Bush, is excited about the dems in congress, so he can more easily destroy our borders for his corporate friends. He's smiley about it. What a complete piece of shit. I know it hurts to admit it, but bend over and take it like a man.

Thanks for getting him in the mood, dillo.

[Evil]

It's not just bush, but bush definitely is included in this cabal. That asshat, Bush, is excited about the dems in congress, so he can more easily destroy our borders for his corporate friends. He's smiley about it. What a complete piece of shit. I know it hurts to admit it, but bend over and take it like a man.

Thanks for getting him in the mood, dillo.

I guess everyone has agendas eh noahide avenger?

[TheSage]

I guess everyone has agendas eh noahide avenger?

Are you changing the topic? If I respond will I be accused of changing the subject? Are you just generally being a shit head today? what's up, cuz? Help a brother 'ssess the fascism level.

[Evil]

Are you changing the topic? If I respond will I be accused of changing the subject? Are you just generally being a shit head today? what's up, cuz? Help a brother 'ssess the fascism level.

This my friend is exactly why you seem to be looking in from the outside every few days or so. Just gotta push the envelope that little bit every single time, but you need to remember that there will be only so many times that things will be overlooked.

[TheSage]

This my friend is exactly why you seem to be looking in from the outside every few days or so. Just gotta push the envelope that little bit every single time, but you need to remember that there will be only so many times that things will be overlooked.

That's me, the forum envelope pusher. Wanna buy an envelope?

[jimnyc]

That's me, the forum envelope pusher. Wanna buy an envelope?

I'll take 2. Do they come with hookers?

[Gunny]

I reject both….

I like history based on verifiable facts myself.

ITA.

One thing that boggles the mind with me though, is even knowing the age-old axiom "those who do not learn from their mistakes are doomed to repeat them," we preat them nonetheless.

But I don't put much credence in it being the product of conspiracy.

[Gunny]

What about facts which are correct but which only tell half the story? WHat about facts which come out later and reveal something different? Do you factor those in, or just keep believing what you previously believed?

Simple. Research the topic from varying sources and find the common denominators.

Facts that are later disclosed and verified should naturally be included, and if it alters my stance on a given topic so be it.

[Gunny]

That's the point---there is an effort to withhold the truth-whether it be incompetence or something more sinister. When you get a whole mess of people to agree to cover someones ass, you got trouble. I don't give a shit if the truth hurts--we need it--badly !

My question in response to this would have to be the most glaringly obvious ... where do you get a "whole mess of people" willing to agree to cover someone's ass?

Not in this country. Two Americans can't keep a secret much less a "whole mess of people." Someone's always going to sell out. The bigger and more far-reaching the alleged conspiracy, the bigger the number of sell outs.

[Gunny]

I agree Dillo, but it has been that way for the last 40 years. Its not just Bush, I think its the beaucrats in washington doing a lot of covering because they are all incompitent.

Beaucrats are a very entrenched part of our government. They are extremely hard to fire and can't be voted out. They each have their own agenda and have to continually justify their position of power in order to keep that power. A lot of the secrecy comes from that group and I'm sure the president and congress can't do alot with or about them. I wonder how many things go on even the president is not aware of.

Yeah, look what happened as a result of Clinton trying to get rid of Linda Tripp. He paid dearly for messing with the bureaucracy.

[Gunny]

It's not just bush, but bush definitely is included in this cabal. That asshat, Bush, is excited about the dems in congress, so he can more easily destroy our borders for his corporate friends. He's smiley about it. What a complete piece of shit. I know it hurts to admit it, but bend over and take it like a man.

Thanks for getting him in the mood, dillo.

How is Bush trying to take advantage of the change in power structure to get one of his plans passed "conspiratorial?"

Control by one vote might gain the Dems control over positions of power, but it hardly is going to give them any real advantage when it comes to legislation.

There's nothing to bend over and take. The only conservative I know of that agrees with Bush on illegal immigration hasn't even posted in this thread.

[TheSage]

How is Bush trying to take advantage of the change in power structure to get one of his plans passed "conspiratorial?"

Control by one vote might gain the Dems control over positions of power, but it hardly is going to give them any real advantage when it comes to legislation.

There's nothing to bend over and take. The only conservative I know of that agrees with Bush on illegal immigration hasn't even posted in this thread.

A better question would be: Why is the President, allegedly sworn to protect our nation and constitution, so determined to destroy our border? His tactical excitement is of course, understandable, as you mentioned. Why WOULDN'T he be happy about the new anti-american congress which supports his anti-american agenda?

[TheSage]

The bigger and more far-reaching the alleged conspiracy, the bigger the number of sell outs.

Yes. Like every crap-o-crat and repuke in government, selling out the country for the interests of their coporate friends. You're right.

[Gunny]

A better question would be: Why is the President, allegedly sworn to protect our nation and constitution, so determined to destroy our border? His tactical excitement is of course, understandable, as you mentioned. Why WOULDN'T he be happy about the new anti-american congress which supports his anti-american agenda?

You would have to ask that question of President Bush, not me. I don't know why he does what he does, nor what his motives are. Unlike some others, unless it's something obvious daylight, I don't try.

Bush caters to Mexican voters, and turns a blind eye to illegal immigration. He did it here for 8 years. No surprise that he's doing it at the National level.

It doesn't matter whether or not he's "happy" about it. The fact that keeps getting overlooked is he can't sign legislation that doesn't get put on his desk, and the Dems can't get anything through Congress the Republicans decide to stop. Without Republicna sell-outs, this will go nowhere.

It's a stall. The Dems will propose something, the Republicans will block it, and the Dems will start finger-pointing.

More significantly, if President Bush loses what support he has left from Congressional Republicans, he might as well head back to Crawford now.

[Dilloduck]

My question in response to this would have to be the most glaringly obvious ... where do you get a "whole mess of people" willing to agree to cover someone's ass?

Not in this country. Two Americans can't keep a secret much less a "whole mess of people." Someone's always going to sell out. The bigger and more far-reaching the alleged conspiracy, the bigger the number of sell outs.

Because all those involved will become richer and more powerful and the danger in engaging in what seems to be merely "common business practice"
is minimal.