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    Thumbs down Beware of the Huckabee/Herman Cain “fairtax“!

    .


    This is absolutely amazing. The big con for a massive expansion of what Congress may tax is still being promoted as a “fairtax“, this time by Mike Huckabee and Herman Cain.


    So, let us examine how this tax, which is a tax upon the sale of “property” would affect Mary and Joe Sixpack, ordinary working people. Mary and Joe have two children and find it necessary to earn extra money to pay their bills. Mary baby sits for neighbors in the community and cleans homes on weekends to raise extra money while Joe, who works a full time job for a company as a house painter, also paints homes and does handyman type work on his own time for people living in his community to raise extra cash.


    Well, surprise, surprise! Under the alleged fair tax Mary and Joe Sixpack’s inalienable right to sell the property they have in their labor becomes a taxable event under the Huckabee/Herman Cain “fairtax“, and Mary and Joe must first register with government to sell the property they have in their labor, and then, collect a federal tax for Congress, file federal fairtax returns under the penalty of perjury 12 times a freaken year, and they will be compelled to keep any records Congress may dream up, not to mention the threat of audits which will constantly haunt them if they dare to sell the property they have in their labor.


    In addition to filing fairtax returns 12 times a year and giving government a 23 percent cut of the action when selling the property they have in their labor, Mary and Joe also get to pay a new 23 percent tax upon their purchases under the Huckabee/Herman Cain “fairtax“.
    .

    But the “fairtax” con doesn’t stop here. If the Huckabee/Herman Cain “fairtax“ were adopted and put into practice, and if the 16th Amendment were eventually repealed under its companion legislation, H.J.RES 16 which proposes to repeal the 16th Amendment, there is another big surprise waiting for all those who think that Congress’ authority to lay and collect taxes calculated from profits, gains, salaries and other incomes is ended under the Huckabee/Herman Cain “fairtax“. The ringleaders behind H.J.RES. 16 refuse to add the following words to their repeal of the 16th Amendment:


    The Sixteenth Amendment is hereby repealed and Congress is henceforth forbidden to lay ``any`` tax or burden calculated from profits, gains, interest, salaries, wages, tips, inheritances or any other lawfully realized money.


    And without this language in H.J.RES. 16, which I have attempted to get fairtax.org to add to H.J.RES 16 for years, Congress still has authority to lay and collect taxes calculated from profits, gains, salaries and other incomes under the Huckabee/Herman Cain “fairtax“. For example, Congress would still have authority to lay and collect a tax calculated from incomes which was laid during the civil war and upheld in Springer vs. United States. In addition, Congress would still have authority to lay and collect taxes calculated from profits and gains as was laid under the Corporate Excise Tax of 1909, which was upheld in Flint vs. Stone Tracy.


    Bottom line is, the Huckabee/Herman Cain “fairtax“ does not propose to end taxes calculated from profits, gains, salaries and incomes. It proposes to have Congress lay two new taxes: a 23 percent tax upon the sale of newly manufactured property, and, a 23 percent tax upon the sale of property which working people have in their labor, in addition to excise taxes which may be calculated from profits, gains, salaries and other incomes. And this does not even take into account the massive redistribution of wealth proposed under its “family consumption allowance” ____ an entitlement which would send a monthly bonus check to those already on the public dole and not gainfully employed, which would be taxed away from our productive members of society ___ a spread the wealth idea!


    Finally, It should also be noted that Leo E. Linbeck Jr., founder of fairtax.org is also a past chairman and director of the Federal Reserve Bank of Dallas, and former director of the Federal Reserve Bank of Dallas-Houston Branch, which is part of that secretive theft ring called the federal reserve system which takes billions, upon billions of American Taxpayer dollars and launders them by sending them abroad to foreign banking pals.


    Now, I’m not big on conspiracies, but those directly connected to the federal reserve system, a private banking cartel which un-constitutionally regulates the value of our money via re-discount rates, ought to be very carefully examined, and what their members, former and present, propose for tax reform ought to be even more carefully examined so as to avoid a total enslavement of America’s businesses, industries and working class people which seems to be the case under the massive expansion of what Congress may tax as proposed under H.R. 25, and its companion legislation H.J.RES 16.


    And what is my solution for tax reform? A return to our Constitution’s ORIGINAL TAX PLAN as our founding fathers intended it to operate and could be put back into practice by adding the following 32 words to our Constitution:

    The Sixteenth Amendment is hereby repealed and Congress is henceforth forbidden to lay ``any`` tax or burden calculated from profits, gains, interest, salaries, wages, tips, inheritances or any other lawfully realized money.


    Regards,

    JWK


    Our tyrant in the White House forces the productive to pay taxes so he can spread their wealth, but he does not force his beloved 40 % who pay no income taxes to work for the taxes they get.

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    Oh geez.

  3. #3
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    Default Frequently asked questions regarding the “fairtax” answered

    Please tell me if you find any of the following questions regarding the “fairtax” answered incorrectly. The answers are based upon the ACTUAL TEXT OF H.R.25 and, H.J.RES 16


    Frequently asked questions regarding the “fairtax” answered.


    Does the “fairtax” propose to lay a 23 percent tax upon the sale of all new manufactured property? YES


    Does the “fairtax” require Mary and Joe Sixpack [as I described them at the top of the thread] to give the federal government a 23 percent cut of the action if they sell the property they have in their labor on weekends by cleaning and painting homes, making handyman repairs, baby sitting, cutting their neighbors lawns, etc.? YES


    Will Mary and Joe have to file fairtax returns 12 times a year? YES


    Will Mary and Joe still be subject to audits? YES


    Will Mary and Joe have to keep any record Congress may dream up? YES


    In addition to the 23 percent cut Mary and Joe must giver to government on the sale of their labor, will they also have to pay an additional 23 percent tax upon products they purchase. YES


    If H.J RES. 16, the “fairtax” companion legislation to repeal the 16th amendment were adopted by the States, would Congress maintain the authority to lay and collect taxes calculated from incomes? YES! As were laid during the Civil War and upheld in Springer vs. United States.


    Under the fairtax, would Congress maintain power to lay and collect taxes calculated from corporate and business profits and gains? YES As were imposed under the Corporate Excise Tax of 1909 and upheld in Flint vs. Stone Tracy.

    Will the IRS be closed down under the “fairtax”. YES, but in its place two new tax collecting agencies will be created, the Excise Tax Bureau and the Sales tax Bureau, and the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms will also be collecting taxes!

    Does the “fairtax” propose to send a monthly check to people who are not gainfully employed and on the public dole? YES


    Why is the “fairtax” called a “progressive” tax by fairtax.org? Because it proposes to redistribute wealth.


    Is the “fairtax” a proposal for a massive expansion of what Congress may tax? YES


    Regards,

    JWK



    America we have a problem! We have a group of DOMESTIC ENEMIES who have managed to seize political power and whose mission is in fact to bring “change” to America ___ the dismantling of our military defensive power; the allowance of our borders to be overrun by foreign invaders, the diluting of our election process by allowing ineligible persons to vote; the destruction of our manufacturing capabilities; the transferring of America’s technology to hostile foreign nations; the strangulation of our agricultural industry and ability to produce food under the guise of environmental necessity; the destruction of our nation’s health care delivery system, the interference with our ability to develop our natural resources, namely oil, to fuel our economy; the looting of both our federal treasury and a mandatory retirement pension fund; the brainwashing of our nation’s children in government operated schools; the trashing of our nation’s traditions and moral values; the creation of an iron fisted control unauthorized by our written Constitution over America’s businesses and industries; the devaluation of our nation’s currency, and, the future enslavement of our children and grand children via unbridled debt and inflation, not to mention an iron fisted government which intends to rule their very lives!

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    Quote Originally Posted by johnwk View Post
    Please tell me if you find any of the following questions regarding the “fairtax” answered incorrectly.
    Yes, either incorrectly or ignorantly.

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    Oh, just go back to the other long ass thread where we debated this with you, and just reread it. Save us all the trouble.
    "Government screws up everything. If government says black, you can bet it's white. If government says sit still for your safety, you'd better run for your life!"
    --Wayne Allyn Root
    www.rootforamerica.com
    www.FairTax.org

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    Thumbs down Beware of the Huckabee/Herman Cain “fairtax“ trap!

    Quote Originally Posted by DragonStryk72 View Post
    Oh, just go back to the other long ass thread where we debated this with you, and just reread it. Save us all the trouble.
    Gee, I thought by now you would have realized if the Huckabee/Cain fairtax were adopted, and its companion legislation to repeal the 16th Amendment were ratified by the States, Congress would still maintain the authority to lay and collect “excise” taxes calculated from profits, gains, and incomes, and, Mary and Joe Sixpack would also be subject to two new taxes imposed under the fairtax ___ they would have to send a 23 percent cut to the federal government when selling the property they have in their labor, and, they would also have to pay a new 23 percent tax upon their purchases (food, clothing, bait and tackle equipment, medical supplies, etc.), In other words, the “fairtax” is a trap to enlarge the taxing arm of Congress.


    JWK


    America we have a problem! We have a group of DOMESTIC ENEMIES who have managed to seize political power and whose mission is in fact to bring “change” to America ___ the dismantling of our military defensive power; the allowance of our borders to be overrun by foreign invaders, the diluting of our election process by allowing ineligible persons to vote; the destruction of our manufacturing capabilities; the transferring of America’s technology to hostile foreign nations; the strangulation of our agricultural industry and ability to produce food under the guise of environmental necessity; the destruction of our nation’s health care delivery system, the interference with our ability to develop our natural resources, namely oil, to fuel our economy; the looting of both our federal treasury and a mandatory retirement pension fund; the brainwashing of our nation’s children in government operated schools; the trashing of our nation’s traditions and moral values; the creation of an iron fisted control unauthorized by our written Constitution over America’s businesses and industries; the devaluation of our nation’s currency, and, the future enslavement of our children and grand children via unbridled debt and inflation, not to mention an iron fisted government which intends to rule their very lives!

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    Quote Originally Posted by johnwk View Post
    Gee, I thought by now you would have realized if the Huckabee/Cain fairtax were adopted, and its companion legislation to repeal the 16th Amendment were ratified by the States, Congress would still maintain the authority to lay and collect “excise” taxes calculated from profits, gains, and incomes, and, Mary and Joe Sixpack would also be subject to two new taxes imposed under the fairtax ___ they would have to send a 23 percent cut to the federal government when selling the property they have in their labor, and, they would also have to pay a new 23 percent tax upon their purchases (food, clothing, bait and tackle equipment, medical supplies, etc.), In other words, the “fairtax” is a trap to enlarge the taxing arm of Congress.
    Your "logic" didn't fly in the other thread either.

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    Quote Originally Posted by johnwk View Post
    Gee, I thought by now you would have realized if the Huckabee/Cain fairtax were adopted, and its companion legislation to repeal the 16th Amendment were ratified by the States, Congress would still maintain the authority to lay and collect “excise” taxes calculated from profits, gains, and incomes, and, Mary and Joe Sixpack would also be subject to two new taxes imposed under the fairtax ___ they would have to send a 23 percent cut to the federal government when selling the property they have in their labor, and, they would also have to pay a new 23 percent tax upon their purchases (food, clothing, bait and tackle equipment, medical supplies, etc.), In other words, the “fairtax” is a trap to enlarge the taxing arm of Congress.


    JWK


    America we have a problem! We have a group of DOMESTIC ENEMIES who have managed to seize political power and whose mission is in fact to bring “change” to America ___ the dismantling of our military defensive power; the allowance of our borders to be overrun by foreign invaders, the diluting of our election process by allowing ineligible persons to vote; the destruction of our manufacturing capabilities; the transferring of America’s technology to hostile foreign nations; the strangulation of our agricultural industry and ability to produce food under the guise of environmental necessity; the destruction of our nation’s health care delivery system, the interference with our ability to develop our natural resources, namely oil, to fuel our economy; the looting of both our federal treasury and a mandatory retirement pension fund; the brainwashing of our nation’s children in government operated schools; the trashing of our nation’s traditions and moral values; the creation of an iron fisted control unauthorized by our written Constitution over America’s businesses and industries; the devaluation of our nation’s currency, and, the future enslavement of our children and grand children via unbridled debt and inflation, not to mention an iron fisted government which intends to rule their very lives!
    See my above statement. Stop wasting everyone's time.
    "Government screws up everything. If government says black, you can bet it's white. If government says sit still for your safety, you'd better run for your life!"
    --Wayne Allyn Root
    www.rootforamerica.com
    www.FairTax.org

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    Quote Originally Posted by DragonStryk72 View Post
    See my above statement. Stop wasting everyone's time.
    Is the your best rebuttal?


    JWK

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    Quote Originally Posted by johnwk View Post
    Is the your best rebuttal?


    JWK
    Nope. See, I save rebuttal for where it matters. With you it doesn't, because you'll simply keep rehashing this same tired argument time and again, just like this thread now is a rehash of the old one on this same subject. You won't move, inch or budge at all, and just come back with the same argument again, regardless of evidence. So, no, this is not my best rebuttal, it's just the only you're worth
    "Government screws up everything. If government says black, you can bet it's white. If government says sit still for your safety, you'd better run for your life!"
    --Wayne Allyn Root
    www.rootforamerica.com
    www.FairTax.org

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    Quote Originally Posted by DragonStryk72 View Post
    Nope. See, I save rebuttal for where it matters. With you it doesn't, because you'll simply keep rehashing this same tired argument time and again, just like this thread now is a rehash of the old one on this same subject. You won't move, inch or budge at all, and just come back with the same argument again, regardless of evidence. So, no, this is not my best rebuttal, it's just the only you're worth



    What I post are documented facts which seem to annoy you and thus, your obfuscations and deflections.


    And you are correct, I “won’t move, inch or budge at all” when facts are involved. I do not attempt to change the truth to what it is not. But you are free to continue in your deflection away from the topic since that approach best serves you ultimate interests.


    JWK




    If we can make the majority of America’s families dependent upon a federal government check, [the alleged fair tax’s family consumption entitlement] we can then bribe them for their vote, keep ourselves in power and keep the remaining portion of America’s productive population enslaved to pay the bills ___Our Washington Establishment’s Marxist game plan, a plan to establish a federal plantation and redistribute the bread which America’s labor and business has produced.

    .

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    OK, just for fun, this would be the most egregious of your errors:

    Quote Originally Posted by johnwk View Post
    ... Mary and Joe Sixpack would also be subject to two new taxes imposed under the fairtax ___ they would have to send a 23 percent cut to the federal government when selling the property they have in their labor, and, they would also have to pay a new 23 percent tax upon their purchases...
    The FairTax is, at heart, a consumption tax. Agreed? With your agreement there you'll have to admit that they are not "consuming" their own labor and at that point you'll recognize that the consumer of the Sixpack's product are those who are actually paying the tax. That they happen to be the entity that collects the tax and remits it to the government is NOT the same as them paying the tax. They are not sending a "cut" to the government as the tax is levied on top of their service and fully disclosed to the consumer unlike the embedded taxation we currently have.

    Now let's see if you can answer WITHOUT using the phrase, "property they have in their labor."

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    Quote Originally Posted by johnwk View Post
    What I post are documented facts...
    Your "facts" are questionable, your interpretation is laughable.

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    Quote Originally Posted by fj1200 View Post
    Oh geez.
    Yeah, my thought as well...This time I don't have time. I'm sure you can handle it.
    UNITED STATES ARMY AVIATION

    Above the Best

    Why the Hell should I have to press “1” for ENGLISH?

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    ... Mary and Joe Sixpack would also be subject to two new taxes imposed under the fairtax ___ they would have to send a 23 percent cut to the federal government when selling the property they have in their labor, and, they would also have to pay a new 23 percent tax upon their purchases…

    Quote Originally Posted by fj1200 View Post
    OK, just for fun, this would be the most egregious of your errors:



    The FairTax is, at heart, a consumption tax. Agreed? With your agreement there you'll have to admit that they are not "consuming" their own labor and at that point you'll recognize that the consumer of the Sixpack's product are those who are actually paying the tax. That they happen to be the entity that collects the tax and remits it to the government is NOT the same as them paying the tax. They are not sending a "cut" to the government as the tax is levied on top of their service and fully disclosed to the consumer unlike the embedded taxation we currently have.

    Now let's see if you can answer WITHOUT using the phrase, "property they have in their labor."
    No. I use the word "property" because it is correct. Mary and Joe are selling the property they have in their labor and the S.C. agrees with me:

    It has been well said that

    "the property which every man has in his own labor, as it is the original foundation of all other property, so it is the most sacred and inviolable. The patrimony of the poor man lies in the strength and dexterity of his own hands, and to hinder his employing this strength and dexterity in what manner he thinks proper, without injury to his neighbor, is a plain violation of this most sacred property. It is a manifest encroachment upon the just liberty both of the workman and of those who might be disposed to employ him. As it hinders the one from working at what he thinks proper, so it hinders the others from employing whom they think proper." __ See Butchers' Union Co. v. Crescent City Co., 111 U.S. 746 (1884) quoting Smith, Wealth of Nations, Bk. I, c. 10.


    You simply do not agree with the fact that when Mary and Joe Sixpack, as I have previously described them, are selling the property they have in their labor, and, the federal government under the alleged fair tax wants a 23 percent cut of the selling price of their labor. But regardless of your interpretations and obfuscations, the fact remains the 23 percent tax calculated from the sale of Mary and Joe’s labor is an entirely different tax from that which is laid upon the sale of newly manufactured property. And regardless of your assertion about the tax involved with Mary and Joe and who pays it, the other fact remains that Mary and Joe will have to file fairtax returns 12 times a year under the penalty of perjury and send the tax to the federal government. So either way you are very much misguided when it comes to the Huckabee/Cain fairtax trap.



    JWK

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