Why Can't the Pro-Abortionists be Honest?

[J.T]

If one's position is defensible, shouldn't you be able to defend it with logical, cogent, well-thought-out arguments? Shouldn't you be able to discuss the matter in an honest and intelligent manner?

A blastocyst/foetus/etc is an organism. It is alive and it is genetically human.* These are verifiable, objective, demonstrable scientific facts. It is all a matter of basic biology.

Therefore, the child is by definition a living human organism. We are, therefore, dealing with a human life. To 'abort' a pregnancy is to bring about the end of those physiological and biological processes that identify this human organism as alive- it is to bring about the child's death.

It is therefore a scientific fact that when we speak of abortion, we speak of ending human life. As we are also humans, we are therefore dealing with a case of homicide- homicide is defined as the killing of a human being by another human being.

If your position is defensible- if the ending of this life is a defensible act- then you should be able to demonstrate why this is justifiable or acceptable without denying the facts of what it is you support. When you pretend that we're not dealing with a living human being, you reveal that one or both of the following is true:
-You do not know what it is you advocate; you are guided purely by your emotion and your programming. You don't understand the subject and have no place in intelligent discussion of the matter.

-You know your position is indefensible; you must lie about what it is you advocate because you cannot honestly defend your position. You have no place in honest discussion.



*Yes, I know a foetus can die in utero without the woman's body expelling it [see: stone foetus] and that humans aren't the only species to experience pregnancy. Given the context, such things should go unsaid. Let us exercise a little critical thinking here.

[maineman]

why are the anti-abortionists unwilling to compromise? Why can they not say, let's outlaw all abortions after quickening? that would save thousands and thousands of those fetuses that they consider human beings.

[Missileman]

If one's position is defensible, shouldn't you be able to defend it with logical, cogent, well-thought-out arguments? Shouldn't you be able to discuss the matter in an honest and intelligent manner?

A blastocyst/foetus/etc is an organism. It is alive and it is genetically human.* These are verifiable, objective, demonstrable scientific facts. It is all a matter of basic biology.

Therefore, the child is by definition a living human organism. We are, therefore, dealing with a human life. To 'abort' a pregnancy is to bring about the end of those physiological and biological processes that identify this human organism as alive- it is to bring about the child's death.

It is therefore a scientific fact that when we speak of abortion, we speak of ending human life. As we are also humans, we are therefore dealing with a case of homicide- homicide is defined as the killing of a human being by another human being.

If your position is defensible- if the ending of this life is a defensible act- then you should be able to demonstrate why this is justifiable or acceptable without denying the facts of what it is you support. When you pretend that we're not dealing with a living human being, you reveal that one or both of the following is true:
-You do not know what it is you advocate; you are guided purely by your emotion and your programming. You don't understand the subject and have no place in intelligent discussion of the matter.

-You know your position is indefensible; you must lie about what it is you advocate because you cannot honestly defend your position. You have no place in honest discussion.



*Yes, I know a foetus can die in utero without the woman's body expelling it [see: stone foetus] and that humans aren't the only species to experience pregnancy. Given the context, such things should go unsaid. Let us exercise a little critical thinking here.

Before any argument can take place, we'll have to define human being.

[Mr. P]

Not AGAIN. Control that seed and the women, damn!

[fj1200]

... then you should be able to demonstrate why this is justifiable or acceptable without denying the facts of what it is you support.

Because the choice of communal society is for the betterment of communal society. If an individual values their own life and choices more than the future life of their own progeny then that decision will result in the betterment of society because communal resources will not be wasted on an unwanted child.

[J.T]

why are the anti-abortionists unwilling to compromise?

Because they oppose homicide.

Why aren't the anti-rapists willing to 'compromise'?

Do you always ask such stupid questions?

Why can they not say, let's outlaw all abortions after quickening?

Why is it okay to kill you before your mother notices you kicking and not after? What changes that makes killing you go from being an okay thing to being a not-okay thing?

they consider human beings.

Sorry, but age, race, and the colour of your skin don't decide whether or not you're human. That bullshit won't fly here.

Before any argument can take place, we'll have to define human being.

Do we have to define 'is', too?

human being

noun
Definition of HUMAN BEING

: human






²human

noun
Definition of HUMAN

: a bipedal primate mammal (Homo sapiens) : man; broadly : hominid

— hu·man·like adjective



human being

 
–noun 1.any individual of the genus Homo, especially a member of the species Homo sapiens.

Noun

S: (n) homo, man, human being, human (any living or extinct member of the family Hominidae

[maineman]

I guess you need to learn how to accept the fact that many people, including the supreme court, don't agree with your definition of when a clump of cells crosses the line and becomes a human being.

sorry.

for me, it's kinda like calling a fertilized egg a chicken.

[Missileman]

Do we have to define 'is', too?

human being

noun
Definition of HUMAN BEING

: human






²human

noun
Definition of HUMAN

: a bipedal primate mammal (Homo sapiens) : man; broadly : hominid

— hu·man·like adjective



human being

 
–noun 1.any individual of the genus Homo, especially a member of the species Homo sapiens.

Noun

S: (n) homo, man, human being, human (any living or extinct member of the family Hominidae

I was of course trying to see if we can arrive at a list of things that differentiate a human being from a single cell with human DNA...the dictionary quotes don't help that. For instance, I think a human being requires a brain, especially given that it separates us from other species.

[LuLu]

So how do you feel about birth control and Plan B?

[Mr. P]

I guess you need to learn how to accept the fact that many people, including the supreme court, don't agree with your definition of when a clump of cells crosses the line and becomes a human being.

sorry.

for me, it's kinda like calling a fertilized egg a chicken.

Or an acorn an Oak Tree.

[Missileman]

Or an acorn an Oak Tree.

Or a bag of flour a cake.

[fj1200]

for me, it's kinda like calling a fertilized egg a chicken.

... or a balut a duck. Oh wait, it is a duck.

[J.T]

I guess you need to learn how to accept the fact that many people, including the supreme court, don't agree with your definition of when a clump of cells crosses the line and becomes a human being.

SCOTUS doesn't get to decide at what shade one's skin makes them a human being.

'They don't look like us' won't fly here.

I was of course trying to see if we can arrive at a list of things that differentiate a human being from a single cell with human DNA...the dictionary quotes don't help that.

Yes, it does. A human being is a human. A human is a genetically human organism. A lymphocyte or a skin cell is not an organism.

This is basic biology.

you reveal that one or both of the following is true:
-You do not know what it is you advocate; you are guided purely by your emotion and your programming. You don't understand the subject and have no place in intelligent discussion of the matter.

-You know your position is indefensible; you must lie about what it is you advocate because you cannot honestly defend your position. You have no place in honest discussion.

So, which is it with you. Are ignorant, a liar, or both?

For instance, I think a human being requires a brain

You're wrong.

Here ya go:
http://faculty.clintoncc.suny.edu/fa...bio_1_menu.htm

http://www.amazon.com/Developing-Hum.../dp/1416037063

especially given that it separates us from other species.

Really? We're the only species with a brain?

I see you have no fucking clue what you're talking about.

The brain is the center of the nervous system in all vertebrate and most invertebrate animals.<sup class="reference" id="cite_ref-Shepard_0-0">[1]</sup>

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brain

Perhaps you should rejoin the discussion when you know what you're talking about. Until then, it's clear you have no place at the table. You are dismissed until you can ground your position in something other than ignorance.

So how do you feel about birth control and Plan B?

Both prevent pregnancy. Abortion is the termination of a pregnancy.

Interestingly, most zygotes never implant in the first place.

Anyway, destroying the zygote is like dismembering the internet today. It's possible each will give rise to a sentient mind at some point (indeed one of the two systems is expected to, if all goes well), but that mind- that person- doesn't exist yet. It is impossible to harm a non-existent person- so, seeing as nobody but the woman taking Plan B and the parties using the condom are effected by their actions, I don't see how it's anyone's business what they do with them.

[Missileman]

Yes, it does. A human being is a human. A human is a genetically human organism. A lymphocyte or a skin cell is not an organism.

This is basic biology.



So, which is it with you. Are ignorant, a liar, or both?

You're wrong.

Here ya go:
http://faculty.clintoncc.suny.edu/fa...bio_1_menu.htm

http://www.amazon.com/Developing-Hum.../dp/1416037063



Really? We're the only species with a brain?

I see you have no fucking clue what you're talking about.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brain

Perhaps you should rejoin the discussion when you know what you're talking about. Until then, it's clear you have no place at the table. You are dismissed until you can ground your position in something other than ignorance.

Hey asshole...go fuck yourself! Do you want to have a debate or just sling shit? I'm capable of either.

Our brain (intelligence) does separate us from other animals. And FYI you ignorant fuck, an organism doesn't have to be multicellular. Further, a human being could be something less than a complete organism, for instance a person born without eyes isn't a complete organism, but still a human being.

[Thunderknuckles]

Before any argument can take place, we'll have to define human being.

Here's where the whole problem began. Thousands of years of human common fucking sense pushed aside due to faulty intellectualism. It's like saying a train isn't a train because it hasn't pulled out of the station yet.