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  1. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thunderknuckles View Post
    Here's where the whole problem began. Thousands of years of human common fucking sense pushed aside due to faulty intellectualism. It's like saying a train isn't a train because it hasn't pulled out of the station yet.
    Negative. It's the application of common sense that leads to the conclusion that it takes more than a lump of cells with human DNA to comprise a human being. And to be more precise in your analogy, it's more like saying the iron ore in the ground isn't a train because it hasn't been turned into a train yet.

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    Quote Originally Posted by J.T View Post
    Both prevent pregnancy. Abortion is the termination of a pregnancy.

    Interestingly, most zygotes never implant in the first place.

    Anyway, destroying the zygote is like dismembering the internet today. It's possible each will give rise to a sentient mind at some point (indeed one of the two systems is expected to, if all goes well), but that mind- that person- doesn't exist yet. It is impossible to harm a non-existent person- so, seeing as nobody but the woman taking Plan B and the parties using the condom are effected by their actions, I don't see how it's anyone's business what they do with them.
    They both prevent human life. Abortion is the same way. A fetus cannot survive on it's own at six weeks or even up to 12 weeks. Abortion is another way for human life to be prevented. Plan B also prevents the fertilized egg from implanting, by your definition wouldn't it already be a human? If a fetus at six weeks cannot survive on its on, and is aborted, isn't that the same thing as preventing a fertilized egg from implanting which it also can survive without doing?

  3. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Missileman View Post
    Negative. It's the application of common sense that leads to the conclusion that it takes more than a lump of cells with human DNA to comprise a human being. And to be more precise in your analogy, it's more like saying the iron ore in the ground isn't a train because it hasn't been turned into a train yet.
    See what I mean about faulty intellectualism!?

    Iron ore can become anything an intelligent human being wants it to become. The cells dividing in a mother's womb are a human life. It has no choice. That is what it is. That is it's preordained destiny unless one chooses to destroy it.

    By the way, I'm OK with abortion when it is needed. I just wish people would stop with the bullshit argument about when a life becomes a life as if the cells dividing in a mother's womb could accidentally become a tonka toy.

  4. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Missileman View Post
    a person born without eyes isn't a complete organism


    Quote Originally Posted by Missileman View Post
    Negative. It's the application of common sense that leads to the conclusion that it takes more than a lump of cells with human DNA to comprise a human being. And to be more precise in your analogy, it's more like saying the iron ore in the ground isn't a train because it hasn't been turned into a train yet.
    At what age did you stop being (a dog? a cat?) and suddenly become a human?


    When you were old enough to vote Democrat?



  5. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by maineman View Post
    I guess you need to learn how to accept the fact that many people, including the supreme court, don't agree with your definition of when a clump of cells crosses the line and becomes a human being.

    sorry.

    for me, it's kinda like calling a fertilized egg a chicken.
    Clump of cells eh?



    How do you tell a communist? Well, it's someone who reads Marx and Lenin. And how do you tell an anti-Communist? It's someone who understands Marx and Lenin.

    Ronald Reagan

  6. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by maineman View Post
    why are the anti-abortionists unwilling to compromise? Why can they not say, let's outlaw all abortions after quickening? that would save thousands and thousands of those fetuses that they consider human beings.
    Amzing how people like you who support the murder of the unborn were never aborted themselves


    How do you tell a communist? Well, it's someone who reads Marx and Lenin. And how do you tell an anti-Communist? It's someone who understands Marx and Lenin.

    Ronald Reagan

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    Quote Originally Posted by LuLu View Post
    They both prevent human life.
    No, they both prevent impregnation. Plan B doesn't prevent the creation of a new human being. It prevents implantation of the newly created child in your uterine wall.
    Abortion is the same way.
    The termination of a pregnancy prevents pregnancy?

    A fetus cannot survive on it's own at six weeks or even up to 12 weeks.
    Or for the next five years... longer, in some cases.

    Abortion is another way for human life to be prevented.
    So I can somehow magically and retroactively prevent your existence by killing you tomorrow?
    If a fetus at six weeks cannot survive on its on, and is aborted, isn't that the same thing as preventing a fertilized egg from implanting which it also can survive without doing?
    By your argument, they're both the same as killing a 3-year-old or a Democrat on welfare, since none of them can survive on their own.



  8. #23
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    It is very easy to be pro choice

    You are not the one getting killed


    How do you tell a communist? Well, it's someone who reads Marx and Lenin. And how do you tell an anti-Communist? It's someone who understands Marx and Lenin.

    Ronald Reagan

  9. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by maineman View Post
    why are the anti-abortionists unwilling to compromise? Why can they not say, let's outlaw all abortions after quickening? that would save thousands and thousands of those fetuses that they consider human beings.
    quickening....""to reach the stage of pregnancy at which the child shows signs of life."......works for me....of course, that would mean abortion would be illegal before any woman was aware she was pregnant, but I can live with that compromise.....

    Quote Originally Posted by maineman View Post
    I guess you need to learn how to accept the fact that many people, including the supreme court, don't agree with your definition of when a clump of cells crosses the line and becomes a human being.

    sorry.

    for me, it's kinda like calling a fertilized egg a chicken.
    it isn't a rhinoceros.....

    Quote Originally Posted by Missileman View Post
    I was of course trying to see if we can arrive at a list of things that differentiate a human being from a single cell with human DNA...the dictionary quotes don't help that. For instance, I think a human being requires a brain, especially given that it separates us from other species.
    "nothing" makes for a short list.....

    Quote Originally Posted by Missileman View Post
    Hey asshole...go fuck yourself! Do you want to have a debate or just sling shit? I'm capable of either.

    Our brain (intelligence) does separate us from other animals. And FYI you ignorant fuck, an organism doesn't have to be multicellular. Further, a human being could be something less than a complete organism, for instance a person born without eyes isn't a complete organism, but still a human being.
    now, Miss....don't be so nasty....we already know you're the last person to be qualified as a human being, you don't have to demonstrate it.....

    Quote Originally Posted by LuLu View Post
    Abortion is the same way.
    no, it simply isn't......there is no denying, scientifically, that the fetus is life.....you can pretend, for the sake of killing it, that it's life isn't as good as a "human being's" life.....but that is just pretending for the sake of killing it......
    ...full immersion.....

  10. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thunderknuckles View Post
    See what I mean about faulty intellectualism!?

    Iron ore can become anything an intelligent human being wants it to become. The cells dividing in a mother's womb are a human life. It has no choice. That is what it is. That is it's preordained destiny unless one chooses to destroy it.

    By the way, I'm OK with abortion when it is needed. I just wish people would stop with the bullshit argument about when a life becomes a life as if the cells dividing in a mother's womb could accidentally become a tonka toy.
    If EVERY fertilized egg became a human being, you'd have a valid argument. Some 15% of pregnancies miscarry, mostly because the cells dividing in the mother's womb are becoming something definitely NOT a viable human being.

  11. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Missileman View Post
    If EVERY fertilized egg became a human being, you'd have a valid argument. Some 15% of pregnancies miscarry, mostly because the cells dividing in the mother's womb are becoming something definitely NOT a viable human being.
    likewise, since not every adult reaches the age of 75 we should feel free to kill them before they reach that age?.....

    Quote Originally Posted by Missileman View Post
    viable human being.
    tell me though......how do you distinguish the rights of a "viable human being" from those of a "human being".....

    "Viable or viability is the ability of a thing (a living organism, an artificial system, an idea, etc.) to maintain itself or recover its potentialities" - wiki

    should any human being not able to maintain itself be subject to termination at will?.....is a day old birthed child "viable".......isn't your application of the term to this situation arbitrary?......
    Last edited by PostmodernProphet; 06-11-2011 at 08:19 AM.
    ...full immersion.....

  12. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by PostmodernProphet View Post
    it isn't a rhinoceros.....
    it isn't lots of things. most importantly, it isn't a chicken.

  13. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Missileman View Post
    Negative. It's the application of common sense that leads to the conclusion that it takes more than a lump of cells with human DNA to comprise a human being. And to be more precise in your analogy, it's more like saying the iron ore in the ground isn't a train because it hasn't been turned into a train yet.
    I'm sure you have seen early ultrasounds, if not early aborted fetuses. Do they really look like a clump of cells to you? Because most of us can see hands feet, heads, faces, hearts, etc.

    Btw, as an aside to MM- the term is "pro-life", and your attempt to change it won't work.
    After the game, the king and the pawn go into the same box - Author unknown

    “Unfortunately, the truth is now whatever the media say it is”
    -Abbey

  14. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by maineman View Post
    it isn't lots of things. most importantly, it isn't a chicken.
    Coming form you that is remarkable. Given your birth was an unnatural birth

    A human being gave birth to you

    Quote Originally Posted by Abbey View Post
    I'm sure you have seen early ultrasounds, if not early aborted fetuses. Do they really look like a clump of cells to you? Because most of us can see hands feet, heads, faces, hearts, etc.

    Btw, as an aside to MM- the term is "pro-life", and your attempt to change it won't work.
    Where is that clump of cells they are talking about?



    How do you tell a communist? Well, it's someone who reads Marx and Lenin. And how do you tell an anti-Communist? It's someone who understands Marx and Lenin.

    Ronald Reagan

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    Quote Originally Posted by PostmodernProphet View Post
    no, it simply isn't......there is no denying, scientifically, that the fetus is life.....you can pretend, for the sake of killing it, that it's life isn't as good as a "human being's" life.....but that is just pretending for the sake of killing it......
    If what they advocate (killing a young human) isn't wrong, why do they have to lie about it and dehumanize their victims?


    http://surplusknowledge.com/index.ph...d=53&Itemid=60

    Quote Originally Posted by Missileman View Post
    If EVERY fertilized egg became a human being
    If canine familiaris zygotes ever start magically turning into humans, Mr Hovind, I will buy you a beer for disproving evolutionary science and debunking the bible (for the 284,845,571,845,971th time in history) with that singular discovery.

    Until then, I'm calling you a dishonest sack of shit.


    The fact is that abortionism is a religion. These people have their dogmas (humans are not humans until they decide they want them around, for instance) and they accept these dogmas on faith. They are incapable of honesty because faith, not reason, guides them.

    Once the renunciation has been made, the mind, instead of operating freely, becomes the servant of a higher and unquestioned purpose. To deny the truth is an act of service...Any genuine intellectual contact which you have with him involves a challenge to his fundamental faith, a struggle for his soul.
    -Arthur Koestler

    Some 15% of pregnancies miscarry,
    100% of humans die (well, 99.9999% if you accept the religious folks' fairy stories). What's your point?
    mostly because the cells dividing in the mother's womb are becoming something definitely NOT a viable human being.

    So they're not human because they're not viable human beings?


    I see you moved the goalposts halfway through your post in order to create a false equivalency, and I must ask: why are you incapable of being honest?

    If 'viable' is part of the definition of 'human' now, what species was my grandmother after she died? How long after her death did her DNA morph into that of some other species?

    What about people on respirators or in Iron Lungs? What species do they turn into?

    Abortionism has the strangest fairy stories of any religion I've ever heard of.



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