Why Can't the Pro-Abortionists be Honest?

[Missileman]

For you to ask the question was a serious misread of my other posts here.



Then once you get past the 30% mark then the vast majority of feti(?) have reached viability and you know they will advance to birth if left to their natural development. At what point are you willing to give them the benefit of a right to the property that they have in their life?

I draw the line at first trimester. Others will draw it differently.

[J.T]

The mass of cells is human, IMO though, you don't get a human being until a significant amount of development occurs.

Your opinion doesn't matter because there is no room for opinion when it comes to established and verifiable scientific facts. You can cry about Earth being 6000 years old and flat all you want, but you remain an idiotic and dishonest moron.

The reality is simple. The Zygote constitutes a new human organism created by the fusion of a spermatozoon and an ovum. This new organism is a living system. Life begins at conception- at the time at which a new living creature comes into existence. This is biology; there is no room for your religion.

I draw the line at first trimester.

Why? What fundamental aspect of your nature changes that made crushing your skull in cold blood go from being an okay thing to being a not-okay thing

[Missileman]

If one's position is defensible, shouldn't you be able to defend it with logical, cogent, well-thought-out arguments? Shouldn't you be able to discuss the matter in an honest and intelligent manner?

A blastocyst/foetus/etc is an organism. It is alive and it is genetically human.* These are verifiable, objective, demonstrable scientific facts. It is all a matter of basic biology.

Therefore, the child is by definition a living human organism. We are, therefore, dealing with a human life. To 'abort' a pregnancy is to bring about the end of those physiological and biological processes that identify this human organism as alive- it is to bring about the child's death.

It is therefore a scientific fact that when we speak of abortion, we speak of ending human life. As we are also humans, we are therefore dealing with a case of homicide- homicide is defined as the killing of a human being by another human being.

If your position is defensible- if the ending of this life is a defensible act- then you should be able to demonstrate why this is justifiable or acceptable without denying the facts of what it is you support. When you pretend that we're not dealing with a living human being, you reveal that one or both of the following is true:
-You do not know what it is you advocate; you are guided purely by your emotion and your programming. You don't understand the subject and have no place in intelligent discussion of the matter.

-You know your position is indefensible; you must lie about what it is you advocate because you cannot honestly defend your position. You have no place in honest discussion.



*Yes, I know a foetus can die in utero without the woman's body expelling it [see: stone foetus] and that humans aren't the only species to experience pregnancy. Given the context, such things should go unsaid. Let us exercise a little critical thinking here.

Before any argument can take place, we'll have to define human being.

[Mr. P]

Not AGAIN. Control that seed and the women, damn!

[maineman]

I guess you need to learn how to accept the fact that many people, including the supreme court, don't agree with your definition of when a clump of cells crosses the line and becomes a human being.

sorry.

for me, it's kinda like calling a fertilized egg a chicken.

[Mr. P]

I guess you need to learn how to accept the fact that many people, including the supreme court, don't agree with your definition of when a clump of cells crosses the line and becomes a human being.

sorry.

for me, it's kinda like calling a fertilized egg a chicken.

Or an acorn an Oak Tree.

[Missileman]

Or an acorn an Oak Tree.

Or a bag of flour a cake.

[fj1200]

for me, it's kinda like calling a fertilized egg a chicken.

... or a balut a duck. Oh wait, it is a duck.

[J.T]

I guess you need to learn how to accept the fact that many people, including the supreme court, don't agree with your definition of when a clump of cells crosses the line and becomes a human being.

SCOTUS doesn't get to decide at what shade one's skin makes them a human being.

'They don't look like us' won't fly here.

I was of course trying to see if we can arrive at a list of things that differentiate a human being from a single cell with human DNA...the dictionary quotes don't help that.

Yes, it does. A human being is a human. A human is a genetically human organism. A lymphocyte or a skin cell is not an organism.

This is basic biology.

you reveal that one or both of the following is true:
-You do not know what it is you advocate; you are guided purely by your emotion and your programming. You don't understand the subject and have no place in intelligent discussion of the matter.

-You know your position is indefensible; you must lie about what it is you advocate because you cannot honestly defend your position. You have no place in honest discussion.

So, which is it with you. Are ignorant, a liar, or both?

For instance, I think a human being requires a brain

You're wrong.

Here ya go:
http://faculty.clintoncc.suny.edu/fa...bio_1_menu.htm

http://www.amazon.com/Developing-Hum.../dp/1416037063

especially given that it separates us from other species.

Really? We're the only species with a brain?

I see you have no fucking clue what you're talking about.

The brain is the center of the nervous system in all vertebrate and most invertebrate animals.<sup class="reference" id="cite_ref-Shepard_0-0">[1]</sup>

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brain

Perhaps you should rejoin the discussion when you know what you're talking about. Until then, it's clear you have no place at the table. You are dismissed until you can ground your position in something other than ignorance.

So how do you feel about birth control and Plan B?

Both prevent pregnancy. Abortion is the termination of a pregnancy.

Interestingly, most zygotes never implant in the first place.

Anyway, destroying the zygote is like dismembering the internet today. It's possible each will give rise to a sentient mind at some point (indeed one of the two systems is expected to, if all goes well), but that mind- that person- doesn't exist yet. It is impossible to harm a non-existent person- so, seeing as nobody but the woman taking Plan B and the parties using the condom are effected by their actions, I don't see how it's anyone's business what they do with them.

[red states rule]

I guess you need to learn how to accept the fact that many people, including the supreme court, don't agree with your definition of when a clump of cells crosses the line and becomes a human being.

sorry.

for me, it's kinda like calling a fertilized egg a chicken.

Clump of cells eh?

[maineman]

it isn't a rhinoceros.....

it isn't lots of things. most importantly, it isn't a chicken.

[red states rule]

it isn't lots of things. most importantly, it isn't a chicken.

Coming form you that is remarkable. Given your birth was an unnatural birth

A human being gave birth to you

I'm sure you have seen early ultrasounds, if not early aborted fetuses. Do they really look like a clump of cells to you? Because most of us can see hands feet, heads, faces, hearts, etc.

Btw, as an aside to MM- the term is "pro-life", and your attempt to change it won't work.

Where is that clump of cells they are talking about?

[PostmodernProphet]

it isn't lots of things. most importantly, it isn't a chicken.

it's a chicken....the DNA will prove it....it's just not a laying hen....

[Missileman]

Do we have to define 'is', too?

human being

noun
Definition of HUMAN BEING

: human






²human

noun
Definition of HUMAN

: a bipedal primate mammal (Homo sapiens) : man; broadly : hominid

— hu·man·like adjective



human being

 
–noun 1.any individual of the genus Homo, especially a member of the species Homo sapiens.

Noun

S: (n) homo, man, human being, human (any living or extinct member of the family Hominidae

I was of course trying to see if we can arrive at a list of things that differentiate a human being from a single cell with human DNA...the dictionary quotes don't help that. For instance, I think a human being requires a brain, especially given that it separates us from other species.

[LuLu]

So how do you feel about birth control and Plan B?