Why Can't the Pro-Abortionists be Honest?

[red states rule]

No. We need to cut spending and pay it off ourselves.

Abortion needs to be stopped because life is precious and all of us have a fundamental right to life.

I agree with both but in the meantime we need workers paying taxes to at least keep up with the interest payments

[J.T]

Nothing more than a lump of cells with no potential to ever become a human being.

wait... first it becomes something 'with no potential to ever become a human being'... and then it goes on to become a human being?

Abortionism truly is a religion

Once the renunciation has been made, the mind, instead of operating freely, becomes the servant of a higher and unquestioned purpose. To deny the truth is an act of service...Any genuine intellectual contact which you have with him involves a challenge to his fundamental faith, a struggle for his soul.
-Arthur Koestler

[Missileman]

wait... first it becomes something 'with no potential to ever become a human being'... and then it goes on to become a human being?

Abortionism truly is a religion

Once the renunciation has been made, the mind, instead of operating freely, becomes the servant of a higher and unquestioned purpose. To deny the truth is an act of service...Any genuine intellectual contact which you have with him involves a challenge to his fundamental faith, a struggle for his soul.
-Arthur Koestler

Nice how you totally remove the context and then make another strawman. Are you capable of anything else, because so far, it's all you've brought to the table.

[gabosaurus]

Nice how you totally remove the context and then make another strawman. Are you capable of anything else, because so far, it's all you've brought to the table.

I think strawmen are all he is capable of bringing to the table.

[fj1200]

when the communal group has UNWANTED children, that, and that alone spells the inevitable end of that community to function well, and ultimately it's demise.

That was my crack at A liberal argument for abortion, valuing the community over the individual. Whether it's a harbinger of the demise of society is a function of their short-term thinking.

Except for the fact that 15% of these fertilized eggs never implant and another 15% are lost through spontaneous abortion without any outside interefence whatsoever. Your premise is flawed.

Not so, outside interference is the premise. When fertilized eggs do not make it to full term, for whatever reason, with no outside interference then so be it.

[Missileman]

Not so, outside interference is the premise. When fertilized eggs do not make it to full term, for whatever reason, with no outside interference then so be it.

So you would cede yourself authority over the other 70% of pregnancies?

[fj1200]

So you would cede yourself authority over the other 70% of pregnancies?

No, two parents were blessed with that authority.

[LuvRPgrl]

Except for the fact that 15% of these fertilized eggs never implant and another 15% are lost through spontaneous abortion without any outside interefence whatsoever. Your premise is flawed.

Nope, those are merely two examples of a human not being able to survive certain elements, just as some babies die right after birth, are stillborn, etc etc.

If the fertilized egg failed to implant, then either the baby fetus didnt perform well enough to get implanted, or the mothers body failed in its job to implant it, in which case, the baby wasnt taken care of properly enough to survive, not any different than if the mothers body kills the infant under a large host of other possibilities. In which, these are cases in which the fertilized egg baby was not provided with proper nutrition or protection from the elements of nature, which can include parts of the mothers body.

Reading further, FJ's response may be better than mine...

That's a huge distortion of what I wrote and you know it. I suppose the lie you just told was easier to write than a coherent, logical response to the rest of the post. As I recall, it's not an unusual tactic for you.

You do support mandatory blood testing if a cop "suspects" one of drunk driving. With so many crooked cops, its impossible to deny that some completely sober people driving will be forced to give blood. See revelarts
video on cops confiscating money when the driver has done NOTHING ILLEGAL

[red states rule]

I think strawmen are all he is capable of bringing to the table.

The world according to liberals like Gabby

[PostmodernProphet]

As for the second question, which part of "not a viable human being" wasn't clear?

relevance?.....

Nice how you totally remove the context and then make another strawman. Are you capable of anything else, because so far, it's all you've brought to the table.

translation "how am I going to claw my way out of this one".....face it Miss......you believe that which does go on to be born, grow up, have children of it's own.....has no potential to be a human being......

So you would cede yourself authority over the other 70% of pregnancies?

if by "ceding authority" you mean keeping people from killing their unborn children.......positively!.......

[LuvRPgrl]

That's a really nice cop out, but I'd say it's a question that needs to be answered before passing any judgement on men and women. After all, if your god can find it just to kill billions of the unborn, I find it hard to believe the same god would find a man or woman immoral for killing one. ?

Since it is a hypothetical where U acknowledge the existence of a creatopr of human life, it is His, the lifes belong to him, not to the women and men who go through the process of procreation, hence it is His right to do what He wants with that life.
Again, assuming there is a God and Heaven, those lifes are better off anyways, But dont go claiming, then the babies we abort are better off also, because it simply isn't our call to make.

You'd have to include situations where the mother's life is in peril AND because I find it unacceptable to force a woman to bear an unwanted child only to have that child neglected by the birth mother or in some state-run institution, you'd also have to include adoption reform and make it easy and FREE for a couple to adopt.?

The circumstances of what will occur afterbirth does not affect the morality or lack of, regarding the act of abortion

What plans do you have to imprison these women who don't want to carry to term? Will you go so far as to strap them down and regulate their diet and prevent them from smoking, drinking, or doing drugs til they pop? I mean the world sure as hell doesn't need any more crack babies, right?

yet another irrelevant issue as to the morality.....abortion

[Missileman]

No, two parents were blessed with that authority.

Does that imply you're okay with the decision of the two parents if they decide to abort?

Nope, those are merely two examples of a human not being able to survive certain elements, just as some babies die right after birth, are stillborn, etc etc.

If the fertilized egg failed to implant, then either the baby fetus didnt perform well enough to get implanted, or the mothers body failed in its job to implant it, in which case, the baby wasnt taken care of properly enough to survive, not any different than if the mothers body kills the infant under a large host of other possibilities. In which, these are cases in which the fertilized egg baby was not provided with proper nutrition or protection from the elements of nature, which can include parts of the mothers body.

Reading further, FJ's response may be better than mine...

The latter 15% of failed pregancies are often the result of chromosomal abnormality. Why can't you understand that if the blueprint (DNA) is severely flawed, the result of the construction is NOT going to be a human being?

You do support mandatory blood testing if a cop "suspects" one of drunk driving. With so many crooked cops, its impossible to deny that some completely sober people driving will be forced to give blood. See revelarts
video on cops confiscating money when the driver has done NOTHING ILLEGAL

I support mandatory blood testing IF, there is probable cause, i.e. erratic driving, smell of alcohol, failed sobriety test, and the suspect then refuses to comply with a breath test to establish proof of DUI. Your contention that a sober person is going to meet all those requirements is PURE BULLSHIT FANTASY! A sober person will comply with the breath test.

Since it is a hypothetical where U acknowledge the existence of a creatopr of human life, it is His, the lifes belong to him, not to the women and men who go through the process of procreation, hence it is His right to do what He wants with that life.
Again, assuming there is a God and Heaven, those lifes are better off anyways, But dont go claiming, then the babies we abort are better off also, because it simply isn't our call to make.

Assuming you consider your god to be just, and assuming your god implants a soul into a human being at the moment of conception (a popular argument), the fact that some 30% of these souls never see the light of day implies that abortion is a just act, unless you can also believe your god is capable of being unjust, at which point one would have to ask who in their right mind would worship such a deity.

yet another irrelevant issue as to the morality.....abortion

So you'd have no problem imprisoning a pregnant woman and forcing her to carry to term. You have a lot of nerve railing about morality.

[LuvRPgrl]

The latter 15% of failed pregancies are often the result of chromosomal abnormality. Why can't you understand that if the blueprint (DNA) is severely flawed, the result of the construction is NOT going to be a human being?

SO? How would that prove the organism wasn't human, or an individual?
Just because it died at a young age, and never was very fit, not too much unlike someone born with severe defects, just not quite as severe as the ones that die early

[logroller]

SO? How would that prove the organism wasn't human, or an individual?
Just because it died at a young age, and never was very fit, not too much unlike someone born with severe defects, just not quite as severe as the ones that die early

There really isn't a clear or perfect answer to the whole abortion issue-- that's why govt should stay the f out of it. That includes funding it. Its an elective procedure and unless the fetus can live outside the womb, its not an individual.
Is it Human? I'd say aborting an unwanted child isn't all that "human." Let see-- a head, two arms, two legs, ten fingers, ten toes. That's what a human is right? Or is it something more? Humans, by and large, are a loving social being. Of course humans, mankind, whatever you want call us have a duality, where man is selfish, even willing to kill for self-preservation. It's a fine line to walk and there's always faults, but through the freedom of choice we succeed or fail, both as individuals and as a society. Impose your will on another and both fail.

So far as severe defects, is that the responsibility of the public? I have a family cancer risk. Which I could premise as a defect-- should govt treat my cancer should I get it?

Don't get me wrong, I think abortion is a stupid behavior; but stupid exists, and will continue to as long govt protects people from their own behavior!

[Missileman]

SO? How would that prove the organism wasn't human, or an individual?
Just because it died at a young age, and never was very fit, not too much unlike someone born with severe defects, just not quite as severe as the ones that die early

We're not talking about a cleft pallet or a club foot, we're talking about a no head, no organs, no form whatsoever type result.