ICE Union: Americans Should ‘Brace Themselves’

[J.T]

I proved they do thanks to the lefts idea of "Motor Voter"

Gabby refuses to accept the facts which is typical for her

and the cost of illegals to the US taxpayer is staggering

Why would they enforce the borders when they're planning to do away with them altogether?

Only true regime change (that is, the abolition of Capitalism as a socio-political system) will lead to the enforcement of national sovereignty.

America needs to return to the socialism of the 50's (something akin to 'right' [social democratic] Shachtmanism)

[fj1200]

Why would they enforce the borders when they're planning to do away with them altogether?

Only true regime change (that is, the abolition of Capitalism as a socio-political system) will lead to the enforcement of national sovereignty.

America needs to return to the socialism of the 50's (something akin to 'right' [social democratic] Shachtmanism)

Which would inevitably return us to the "prosperity" of the 30's. We need to return to Capitalism.

[J.T]

Which would inevitably return us to the "prosperity" of the 30's.

Yes, because the policies of the 50's retroactively, through a rip in the space-time continuum effected the conditions of the 30's

We need to return to Capitalism.

You mean sending children into the mines, Hoovervilles and slums, the wholesale massacre of workers by mobsters hired by the capitalists...?

Americans suffered under capitalism and prospered together under socialism. America needs a new Social Democratic party to restore her former greatness through proper socialism.

[fj1200]

Yes, because the policies of the 50's retroactively, through a rip in the space-time continuum effected the conditions of the 30's

I wouldn't expect you to understand. The pain of the 30's came about due to the higher tax rates pushed through by Hoover/FDR and the pain of protectionism. You think high taxes and rejecting globalism are ingredients for success; history shows otherwise.

The 50's are long gone.

What accounts for the rise in income inequality since the 1970s? According to most economists, the answer lies in structural changes in the economy — in particular, technological changes that have raised the demand for highly skilled workers and thereby boosted their pay. Opposing this prevailing view, however, is Princeton economist and New York Times columnist Paul Krugman, winner of the 2008 Nobel Prize in economics. According to Krugman and a group of like-minded scholars, structural explanations of inequality are inadequate. They argue instead that changes in economic policies and social norms have played a major role in the widening of the income distribution.

Krugman and company have a point. For the quarter century or so after World War II, incomes were much more compressed than they are today. Since then, American society has experienced major changes in both political economy and cultural values. And both economic logic and empirical evidence provide reasons for concluding that those changes have helped to restrain low-end income growth while accelerating growth at the top of the income scale.

However, Krugman and his colleagues offer a highly selective and misleading account of the relevant changes. Looking back at the early postwar decades, they cherry-pick the historical record in a way that allows them to portray that time as an enlightened period of well-designed economic policies and healthy social norms. Such a rosy-colored view of the past fails as objective historical analysis. Instead, it amounts to ideologically motivated nostalgia.

Once those bygone policies and norms are seen in their totality, it should be clear that nostalgia for them is misplaced. The political economy of the early postwar decades, while it generated impressive results under the peculiar conditions of the time, is totally unsuited to serve as a model for 21st-century policymakers. And as to the social attitudes and values that undergirded that political economy, it is frankly astonishing that self-described progressives could find them attractive.

http://www.cato.org/pub_display.php?pub_id=9941

You mean sending children into the mines, Hoovervilles and slums, the wholesale massacre of workers by mobsters hired by the capitalists...?

Americans suffered under capitalism and prospered together under socialism. America needs a new Social Democratic party to restore her former greatness through proper socialism.

That's not my Capitalism. Capitalism is what has given us our superior living standards compared to most of the world and IMO allows other countries to ride our coattails. The pain of today is not because of free markets it is because we have been continually dumping social mores onto business to such an extent that we have lost our competititive advantage. As a friend of mine said, "when socialism fails, blame capitalism and demand more socialism."

[J.T]

That's not my Capitalism.

Yes, it is. For it is the only true capitalism. Wait, let me guess, you love the word 'capitalism' but you want socialism- you know, things like OSHA, workplace safety laws, environmental protections, minimum wages, and a decent standard of living the the masses...

Capitalism is what has given us our superior living standards compared to most of the world and IMO allows other countries to ride our coattails.

Wrong again. Socialism has done this. Look at the Congo, modern China, or our past colonies (eg: our invasion of Guatemala) to see what capitalism really is.

Do you even know what capitalism and socialism are?

The pain of today is not because of free markets

You realize that free markets don't exist under capitalism, right? Just ask John D. Rockefeller how capitalists view markets.

Competition is a sin
-John D. Rockefeller

The capitalist sets forth to destroy the market and instill monopoly and fascism.

If you want markets and competition, you must muzzle capitalism- and then you don't have true capitalism. You have some degree market socialism. In the U.S., it took the form of something akin to 'Right' (Social Democratic) Shachtmanism.

[fj1200]

Yes, it is. For it is the only true capitalism. Wait, let me guess, you love the word 'capitalism' but you want socialism- you know, things like OSHA, workplace safety laws, environmental protections, minimum wages, and a decent standard of living the the masses...

Nope, you should read some books that don't pollute your mind.

Wrong again. Socialism has done this. Look at the Congo, modern China, or our past colonies (eg: our invasion of Guatemala) to see what capitalism really is.

Do you even know what capitalism and socialism are?

That is utterly laughable. How many failures of socialism do you need to see?

You realize that free markets don't exist under capitalism, right? Just ask John D. Rockefeller how capitalists view markets.

Competition is a sin
-John D. Rockefeller

The capitalist sets forth to destroy the market and instill monopoly and fascism.

If you want markets and competition, you must muzzle capitalism- and then you don't have true capitalism. You have some degree market socialism. In the U.S., it took the form of something akin to 'Right' (Social Democratic) Shachtmanism.

They wouldn't be a Capitalist then now would they? Your arguments are so full of holes that I wouldn't know where to start.

[logroller]

I wouldn't expect you to understand. The pain of the 30's came about due to the higher tax rates pushed through by Hoover/FDR and the pain of protectionism. You think high taxes and rejecting globalism are ingredients for success; history shows otherwise.

The 50's are long gone.


http://www.cato.org/pub_display.php?pub_id=9941



That's not my Capitalism. Capitalism is what has given us our superior living standards compared to most of the world and IMO allows other countries to ride our coattails. The pain of today is not because of free markets it is because we have been continually dumping social mores onto business to such an extent that we have lost our competititive advantage. As a friend of mine said, "when socialism fails, blame capitalism and demand more socialism."

A painfully successful tactic.

Yes, it is. For it is the only true capitalism. Wait, let me guess, you love the word 'capitalism' but you want socialism- you know, things like OSHA, workplace safety laws, environmental protections, minimum wages, and a decent standard of living the the masses...

Wrong again. Socialism has done this. Look at the Congo, modern China, or our past colonies (eg: our invasion of Guatemala) to see what capitalism really is.

Do you even know what capitalism and socialism are?





You realize that free markets don't exist under capitalism, right? Just ask John D. Rockefeller how capitalists view markets.

Competition is a sin
-John D. Rockefeller

The capitalist sets forth to destroy the market and instill monopoly and fascism.

If you want markets and competition, you must muzzle capitalism- and then you don't have true capitalism. You have some degree market socialism. In the U.S., it took the form of something akin to 'Right' (Social Democratic) Shachtmanism.

You should define what YOU mean before condescending another. What, to you, is "true" capitalism? And more specifically, what is "false capitalism"? You may very well believe your opinion to true, but the facts I'm aware of dispute your opinion. Here's a little factoid I found informative:

The word "capitalism" was not used by Adam Smith-- it was Karl Marx who later coined the term. "Liassez faire" economics, as the theory is still identified meant, as the French term suggests, that government should leave the economy alone. This was a direct attack on mercantilism of the period. The essential tenants of capitalism, as developed by Smith, included:

(1) The means of production, land and capital, are privately owned. "Capital", here, means the plant and equipment used to produce goods and services.

(2) The economy is organized and coordinated through the interaction of buyers and sellers (or producers) in markets.

(3) Suppliers, the owners of land and capital as well as laborers, pursue their own self-interests in seeking maximum gain and profits from the use of their resources. Buyers of goods and services similarly spend their money to yield the greatest satisfaction.

(4) With suppliers and buyers pursuing self-interest the market is constructed in which the value (or price) of goods and services is determined through the "haggling" of seller and buyer.

(5) With a competitive market of buyers and sellers following self-interest, the economy is self-regulating and there is little role for government. The sovereign is necessary mainly to protect society from foreign attack, uphold the rights of private property, guarantee contracts, and assist, where necessary, in the building of "infrastructure", to include roads, canals, and similar "public" goods.

http://www.mgmtguru.com/mgt301/301_Lecture1Page5.htm

[fj1200]

Nice rebut, but alas... no rep, it must be spread.

[J.T]

The word "capitalism" was not used by Adam Smith-


The essential tenants of capitalism, as developed by Smith

So he defined a word he never used?

with a competitive market of buyers and sellers following self-interest, the economy is self-regulating

Your magical invisible hand? Yeah, flaming rivers and lead in everything. A terrific system

[fj1200]

So he defined a word he never used?
Your magical invisible hand? Yeah, flaming rivers and lead in everything. A terrific system

Still redefining words to suit your own viewpoint eh?

Nevertheless, true Socialism, the world's leading killer of man:

169,202,000 Murdered

[J.T]

Capitalism and the magical self-regulating market: Umm, the Cuyahoga River's on Fire ... Again

Those who do not remember history...

[fj1200]

True Socialism, the cure for breathing/dissent.

[logroller]

So he defined a word he never used?

Well obviously if he didn't use the word, he can't very well define it. You, however, did use the word-- incorrectly, I might add.


" I have never known much good done by those who affected to trade for the public good." -Adam Smith

[J.T]

Well obviously if he didn't use the word, he can't very well define it.

So now you say your earlier post was b.s.?

You, however, did use the word-- incorrectly, I might add.

Oh?

Do you even know what capitalism is? Do you know what socialism is? Do you know what communism is?

" I have never known much good done by those who affected to trade for the public good." -Adam Smith

Our rivers don't catch fire anymore and we no longer allow slavery. Also, things made in America generally don't contain toxic heavy metals.

But don't let facts or reality get in your way....

[fj1200]

Do you even know what capitalism is? Do you know what socialism is? Do you know what communism is?

...

But don't let facts or reality get in your way....

You pretty much ignore ALL conflicting viewpoints don't you? Capitalism... Socialism... the 50's...

True Socialism: If you disagree with it... make it disappear.