Are We Alone In the Universe? New Analysis Says Maybe

[LuvRPgrl]

Yes and most still do not agree with you

and yet you didnt answer my question even on this topic

Ok the United states went to the moon..

The United states practiced massive slavery against people who had done no harm to us..

OLD NEWS

We also wiped out tens of thousands ( at a minimum ) of Native Americans..

MORE OLD NEWS

We launched a pre-emptive war against Iraq and also waged war in Somalia and Bosnia where no one had done any harm to us..

SO, YOU THINK IF SPACE ALIENS SHOW UP, THAT MOST OF THEM WILL BE BEING TREATED HARSHLY BY A MINORITY OF THEM BECAUSE THE MINORITY HAS WEAPONRY THAT THE OPPRESSED DONT?
I DONT, JUST LIKE WHEN WE WENT TO THE MOON, WE DECLARED IT IS PROPERTY OF THE ENTIRE WORLD.
Try reading a little history, it also says in a plaque memorilizing the landing that we come in peace to all, no weapons were taken up there.

Even during the moon landings we were at war in Vietnam and while personally I think that war was a just cause the fact is the enemy had done no harm to us.

SEE ANSWER ABOVE

There is no evidence that advanced technology and brilliant scientific genius means benign, peaceful intent. .

AHHH, JUST BECAUSE YOU SAY SO. NO MATTER WHAT SOMEONE PRESENTS YOU WILL SIMPLY SAY ITS NOT "EVIDENCE".
You do realize that the downfall of the nazis was their infelxable thinking. SOUND FAMILIAR??

And of course you keep ignoring that ET's would by definition be radically different from us in every respect to include psychologically and emotionally. Destroying an indigenous species could be quite AMORAL and not the least bit aggressive to them.

And yet, in the most civilized and advanced culture on earth, even the animals are attaining higher status then humans in other "less advanced" cultures.
"by definition" hahahahh, BY YOUR DEFINITION nobody elses, I dont see why aliens couldnt be exactly like us, similiar or so bizarre its beyond our imagination.
i dont limit the posssibilities like you do.

I have it on good authority they are from Venus......

Is that a Martian authority?

[soupnazi630]

OLD NEWS

MORE OLD NEWS


SO, YOU THINK IF SPACE ALIENS SHOW UP, THAT MOST OF THEM WILL BE BEING TREATED HARSHLY BY A MINORITY OF THEM BECAUSE THE MINORITY HAS WEAPONRY THAT THE OPPRESSED DONT?
I DONT, JUST LIKE WHEN WE WENT TO THE MOON, WE DECLARED IT IS PROPERTY OF THE ENTIRE WORLD.
Try reading a little history, it also says in a plaque memorilizing the landing that we come in peace to all, no weapons were taken up there.

SEE ANSWER ABOVE


AHHH, JUST BECAUSE YOU SAY SO. NO MATTER WHAT SOMEONE PRESENTS YOU WILL SIMPLY SAY ITS NOT "EVIDENCE".
You do realize that the downfall of the nazis was their infelxable thinking. SOUND FAMILIAR??




And yet, in the most civilized and advanced culture on earth, even the animals are attaining higher status then humans in other "less advanced" cultures.
"by definition" hahahahh, BY YOUR DEFINITION nobody elses, I dont see why aliens couldnt be exactly like us, similiar or so bizarre its beyond our imagination.
i dont limit the posssibilities like you do.

If it is old news why did you ask for it assuming you already knew it.

It proves you wrong.

Higher technology and advanced science does not equal benign or peaceful intent as the my post proves. In addition rhetoric or a plaque about coming in peace does not mean that war has been left behind or aggression forgotten.

No I did not mean a minority of Ets would be mistreated by THEIR majority I meant what I said.

What I stated is that there is no evidence of such beings being peaceful and we should not assume they are and even our own history does not support your view.

Yes your view is limiting the possibilities by assumptions without evidence.

Another species could well be peaceful but there is simply no reason to assume they will be. We need to be aware that any possibility exists.

BTW animals have no higher status they are still animals.

[LuvRPgrl]

If it is old news why did you ask for it assuming you already knew it..

BUZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ
YOU JUST WON THE "SPEAK BEFORE READING WHAT YOU ARE SPEAKING ABOUT" AWARD OF THE YEAR.
Go back and read post 33, I put a stipulation on it that technology of a certain level must be achieved.

It proves you wrong.

Higher technology and advanced science does not equal benign or peaceful intent as the my post proves. In addition rhetoric or a plaque about coming in peace does not mean that war has been left behind or aggression forgotten..

And yet there is an INTERNATI0NAL SPACE PROGRAM that is nothing but peaceful.

No I did not mean a minority of Ets would be mistreated by THEIR majority I meant what I said..

You gave an example of a society where a more powerful minority maintained control and were violent against the majority.

What I stated is that there is no evidence of such beings being peaceful and we should not assume they are and even our own history does not support your view..

there is no evidence of any such being being violent either. History shows that those countries involved in active space exploration have cohabitatedd peacefully. Which also includes satellites that have been in orbit for decades.

Yes your view is limiting the possibilities by assumptions without evidence..

Your definition of evidence sounds kinda muslm to me, its your opinion that you consider evidence.

Another species could well be peaceful but there is simply no reason to assume they will be. We need to be aware that any possibility exists..

re read again. I didnt say they WOULD be peaceful, I was saying that those who claim they WOULD be violent might be wrong.

BTW animals have no higher status they are still animals.[/QUOTE]Again, your opinion. Millions of others disagree, ever hear of PETA.? Im not saying they are right, just....

[Little-Acorn]

To think our biological systems just sorta happened, is honestly just as stupid to think coffee beans, milk, vanilla beans and water, if left in their containers will magically 'given millions of years' somehow form into a delicious vanilla non-fat latte.

There are no delicious vanilla non-fat lattes. >:-O

Maybe life is out there, and we simply missed it.

Consider two factors: size and time.

SIZE

Is there a chance that the "life out there" is so small (compared to our own) among the vastness of the universe, that we are unlikely to see it even if we are looking right at it?

Brings to mind a cartoon (always a good reference ) on the subject that I once saw. Some guy is sitting at a table. On the floor beside him is a tiny space capsule the size of a pea, with a tiny door open on it. He's looking through a microscope, and a bunch of cells in the viewfinder are lining up to spell out the words, "Take us to your leader".

TIME

Some people say the Earth is maybe 4.5 billion years old, and the rest of the universe is much older. How long has Man existed on the planet? For that matter, how long has ANY "life as we know it" existed here, from single cells thru trilobites thru T-rexes thru man? Just a tiny fraction of the life of the planet. And if we start tossing nukes around or some other thing, that could all be gone in a thousand years or less.

"Life as we know it" has only existed HERE for a blink of an eye, in the history of the universe. Who's to say some other life form didn't develop or get created (insert your own favorite theory of origin here), half a universe-lifespan ago, grow, invent machines, spread through a galaxy or two, then goof and wipe themselves out like we might, all in their own relative blink of an eye, say ten billion years ago? Would there be ANY evidence of that left now? Even if there were, what are the chances of our finding it? We've been listening (and broadcasting) for less than a hundred years. And we've sent out what, a grand total of three spacecraft to exit our own SOLAR SYSTEM, and only in the last 20-30 years?

We have ZERO evidence that we are the only ones who are here, or have ever been. Course, there's zero evidence that we aren't, too. There's a very good chance that, if there was ever "life" in the universe, we (inevitably) missed it, and it's long gone now. If it ever existed.

What chances are there that, many billions of years in the future, other beings someplace will be saying the same thing... never knowing they are referring to US?

[LuvRPgrl]

Maybe life is out there, and we simply missed it.

Consider two factors: size and time.

SIZE

Is there a chance that the "life out there" is so small (compared to our own) among the vastness of the universe, that we are unlikely to see it even if we are looking right at it?

Brings to mind a cartoon (always a good reference ) on the subject that I once saw. Some guy is sitting at a table. On the floor beside him is a tiny space capsule the size of a pea, with a tiny door open on it. He's looking through a microscope, and a bunch of cells in the viewfinder are lining up to spell out the words, "Take us to your leader".

TIME

Some people say the Earth is maybe 4.5 billion years old, and the rest of the universe is much older. How long has Man existed on the planet? For that matter, how long has ANY "life as we know it" existed here, from single cells thru trilobites thru T-rexes thru man? Just a tiny fraction of the life of the planet. And if we start tossing nukes around or some other thing, that could all be gone in a thousand years or less.

"Life as we know it" has only existed HERE for a blink of an eye, in the history of the universe. Who's to say some other life form didn't develop or get created (insert your own favorite theory of origin here), half a universe-lifespan ago, grow, invent machines, spread through a galaxy or two, then goof and wipe themselves out like we might, all in their own relative blink of an eye, say ten billion years ago? Would there be ANY evidence of that left now? Even if there were, what are the chances of our finding it? We've been listening (and broadcasting) for less than a hundred years. And we've sent out what, a grand total of three spacecraft to exit our own SOLAR SYSTEM, and only in the last 20-30 years?

We have ZERO evidence that we are the only ones who are here, or have ever been. Course, there's zero evidence that we aren't, too. There's a very good chance that, if there was ever "life" in the universe, we (inevitably) missed it, and it's long gone now. If it ever existed.

What chances are there that, many billions of years in the future, other beings someplace will be saying the same thing... never knowing they are referring to US?

Good post.
Regarding size, I'm not sure if that can happen though, science has gotten bits of material down to smaller than an electron or proton or nucleus of an atom. I forget what they are called, but they can distinguish these things that are clinging together making up the nucleus. Im just not sure if anything can get much smaller, but then again, no matter how small of a particle you discover, there is always the question, what is that made of...

But in terms of missing others, not only possible, but more likely than not. That is, if you are running on the notion there is no creator. If there is a creator, either possiblity is just as likely, since its his choice.
It seems space travel to another solar system just isnt possible within our current realm. Wormholes, or something has to be discovered.

But I have also been contemplating the notion about something else being alive, could be right in front of us, and still we cant see them. Kinda like we cant see glass. Maybe they are comosed of something we just cant discern.
Not to mention, our body is composed of 99.999999999999999999999999999999999% space. It entirely possible that the old scientific addage that two things cant occupy the same space at the same time, might not be true. Suppose some other particles are capable of filliing in between the atoms whirling around, and they can be a part of a larger organism.
Its possible they could pass right through us, and we dont even know it, the molecules or atoms, or protons could be composed of a substance that makes it impossible for their atomic parts to collide with ours, kinda the opposite of gravity.
In fact, there might not be any gravity at all. Maybe everything is held together by some universal force that pushes things together.

Oh, and there is NOTHING that is Vanilla and delicous in the same sentence, CHOCOLATE BABY, CHOCOLATE !!

[Gaffer]

Good post.
Regarding size, I'm not sure if that can happen though, science has gotten bits of material down to smaller than an electron or proton or nucleus of an atom. I forget what they are called, but they can distinguish these things that are clinging together making up the nucleus. Im just not sure if anything can get much smaller, but then again, no matter how small of a particle you discover, there is always the question, what is that made of...

But in terms of missing others, not only possible, but more likely than not. That is, if you are running on the notion there is no creator. If there is a creator, either possiblity is just as likely, since its his choice.
It seems space travel to another solar system just isnt possible within our current realm. Wormholes, or something has to be discovered.

But I have also been contemplating the notion about something else being alive, could be right in front of us, and still we cant see them. Kinda like we cant see glass. Maybe they are comosed of something we just cant discern.
Not to mention, our body is composed of 99.999999999999999999999999999999999% space. It entirely possible that the old scientific addage that two things cant occupy the same space at the same time, might not be true. Suppose some other particles are capable of filliing in between the atoms whirling around, and they can be a part of a larger organism.
Its possible they could pass right through us, and we dont even know it, the molecules or atoms, or protons could be composed of a substance that makes it impossible for their atomic parts to collide with ours, kinda the opposite of gravity.
In fact, there might not be any gravity at all. Maybe everything is held together by some universal force that pushes things together.

Oh, and there is NOTHING that is Vanilla and delicous in the same sentence, CHOCOLATE BABY, CHOCOLATE !!

I think some of what your talking about is discussed in the theory of dark matter, which they haven't been able to prove yet. The speculations are endless. And everything we know is limited to human experience and understanding. That's why scifi is so cool. The thing about reality is that it's always different than we imagine it.

Cool posts from both of you.

[LuvRPgrl]

I think some of what your talking about is discussed in the theory of dark matter, which they haven't been able to prove yet. The speculations are endless. And everything we know is limited to human experience and understanding. That's why scifi is so cool. The thing about reality is that it's always different than we imagine it.

Cool posts from both of you.

I find it fascinating,,,,thanks

[Little-Acorn]

There is matter (which is us), there is dark matter (which is currently science fiction), and there is antimatter (which seems to be real but stay away from it).

Matter is made of protons, electrons, neutrons, and a bunch of teenyweenies we're still discovering, or at least postulating.
Antimatter is made, respectively, of antiprotons, positrons, and I'm not sure what the anti of a neutron is. An antiproton looks like a proton but has a negative charge, a positron looks like an electron but has a positive charge.

When matter meets antimatter, they annihilate, which I believe means they both change into pure energy. You don't want to be around when that happens. Even in an atomic bomb, only a very small fraction of the reacting matter is changed to energy... but that's enough to level a city. In a matter-antimatter annihiliation, ALL the mass is changed into energy, resulting in a bang that is orders of magnitude larger than the biggest atom bomb ever made (and we've made some big ones - Hiroshima and Nagasaki were pipsqueaks).

Not sure if scientists have ever actually isolated and measured antimatter. The mathematical equations that describe real matter, indicate that antimatter should also exist. Can you see it? And, what do you keep it in?

And as I said, who wants to be within a thousand miles of the stuff?

[Gaffer]

There is matter (which is us), there is dark matter (which is currently science fiction), and there is antimatter (which seems to be real but stay away from it).

Matter is made of protons, electrons, neutrons, and a bunch of teenyweenies we're still discovering, or at least postulating.
Antimatter is made, respectively, of antiprotons, positrons, and I'm not sure what the anti of a neutron is. An antiproton looks like a proton but has a negative charge, a positron looks like an electron but has a positive charge.

When matter meets antimatter, they annihilate, which I believe means they both change into pure energy. You don't want to be around when that happens. Even in an atomic bomb, only a very small fraction of the reacting matter is changed to energy... but that's enough to level a city. In a matter-antimatter annihiliation, ALL the mass is changed into energy, resulting in a bang that is orders of magnitude larger than the biggest atom bomb ever made (and we've made some big ones - Hiroshima and Nagasaki were pipsqueaks).

Not sure if scientists have ever actually isolated and measured antimatter. The mathematical equations that describe real matter, indicate that antimatter should also exist. Can you see it? And, what do you keep it in?

And as I said, who wants to be within a thousand miles of the stuff?

Yeah where would it be found since it can't exist around matter? I wonder if there's a neutral matter? Something that's friends with both.

[LuvRPgrl]

Yeah where would it be found since it can't exist around matter? I wonder if there's a neutral matter? Something that's friends with both.

that would be me.
Anti matter is Gabby, OCA....
Neutral matter would be Noir

Acorn, just wondering if you got any info on the mathematical equation.

[Little-Acorn]

Anti matter is Gabby,

Yes, I've noticed that.

Sometimes she inhabits a thread for a brief time. But as soon as somebody shows up and starts posting facts, and/or asks her to back up any of her statements, she vanishes and is not heard from again.

"Annihilation" to a tee......

Acorn, just wondering if you got any info on the mathematical equation.

Sorry, no, just read about the generalities in various books.

There's always the old standby: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antimatter

[Gunny]

Native Americans, irrelevant.
Proverbial last words, again irrelevant.

As for the Nazi's, I did say most scientists, not all. I could name thousands of scientists in the 40's who were not violent.

Both comments are completely relevant to YOUR posts. I would have had no reason to make them otherwise. You are missing the entire point.

An infinite universe is not confined to the scientific laws of Man. Your stuck inside a box saying that something infinite and undefined MUST fall within the scientific laws of Man.

And sorry, most scientists are as unscrupulous as it gets when it comes to life of any sort. Nazi's were just an example. Medical science DID benefit greatly from some of the Nazi experimentation. Doesn't make it ethical.

If it is old news why did you ask for it assuming you already knew it.

It proves you wrong.

Higher technology and advanced science does not equal benign or peaceful intent as the my post proves. In addition rhetoric or a plaque about coming in peace does not mean that war has been left behind or aggression forgotten.

No I did not mean a minority of Ets would be mistreated by THEIR majority I meant what I said.

What I stated is that there is no evidence of such beings being peaceful and we should not assume they are and even our own history does not support your view.

Yes your view is limiting the possibilities by assumptions without evidence.

Another species could well be peaceful but there is simply no reason to assume they will be. We need to be aware that any possibility exists.

BTW animals have no higher status they are still animals.

Agreed. Why should any ET consider us anything more than we consider cattle? Grilled, medium-rare.:cow:

BUZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ
YOU JUST WON THE "SPEAK BEFORE READING WHAT YOU ARE SPEAKING ABOUT" AWARD OF THE YEAR.
Go back and read post 33, I put a stipulation on it that technology of a certain level must be achieved.


And yet there is an INTERNATI0NAL SPACE PROGRAM that is nothing but peaceful.

You gave an example of a society where a more powerful minority maintained control and were violent against the majority.


there is no evidence of any such being being violent either. History shows that those countries involved in active space exploration have cohabitatedd peacefully. Which also includes satellites that have been in orbit for decades.

Your definition of evidence sounds kinda muslm to me, its your opinion that you consider evidence.

re read again. I didnt say they WOULD be peaceful, I was saying that those who claim they WOULD be violent might be wrong.

BTW animals have no higher status they are still animals.

Again, your opinion. Millions of others disagree, ever hear of PETA.? Im not saying they are right, just....[/QUOTE]

That isn't what you said. Your argument has basically stated that an intellect superior enough to travel through space would be benevolent simply because of its superior intellect. Your revision of that statement in this post is a concession to your original argument.

[LuvRPgrl]

Both comments are completely relevant to YOUR posts. I would have had no reason to make them otherwise. You are missing the entire point..

Not missing anything. My statement was that societies of advanced technology......;Im so sorry, but stone arrowheads does not qualify as advanced technology

An infinite universe is not confined to the scientific laws of Man...

I never said it was.

Your stuck inside a box saying that something infinite and undefined MUST fall within the scientific laws of Man..

I'm stuck inside the box? hahha, thats hilarious. I destroy boxes. I know of no box I have not questioned, its in my DNA because of my most unusual upbrining. I question everything, my experience has alot of negative consequences, but thinking inside the box is not one of them.
In fact, you are stuck inside the box if you say the infinite universe is not confined to the scientific laws of Man (which actually is an oxymoron, which is it? laws of man, or laws of science?)
I say it may, or may not be. Is there any proof that there are laws of science that are not followed at any time or space of the universe.

And sorry, most scientists are as unscrupulous as it gets when it comes to life of any sort. Nazi's were just an example. Medical science DID benefit greatly from some of the Nazi experimentation. Doesn't make it ethical.

You say MOST, but you dont back it up. Nazi thing is a red herring.

AND, I also dont think the universe is infinite. And one thing is for sure, its IMPOSSIBLE TO PROVE IT IS.

[Missileman]

Im so sorry, but stone arrowheads does not qualify as advanced technology

It's all a matter of relativity. Stone arrowheads ARE advanced technology if everyone else is using a plain stick.

[LuvRPgrl]

It's all a matter of relativity. Stone arrowheads ARE advanced technology if everyone else is using a plain stick.

It was my "base" that is being used to measure other societies with. Since I said a certain level, not a comparision, but a concrete level of technology which includes space travel, and excludes arrow making.