Time for "socialist" healthcare?

[zefrendylia]

US Health Care Expensive, Inefficient: Report
By Maggie Fox
Reuters

Tuesday 15 May 2007

Americans get the poorest health care and yet pay the most compared to five other rich countries, according to a report released on Tuesday.

Germany, Britain, Australia and Canada all provide better care for less money, the Commonwealth Fund report found.

"The U.S. health care system ranks last compared with five other nations on measures of quality, access, efficiency, equity, and outcomes," the non-profit group which studies health care issues said in a statement.

Canada rates second worst out of the five overall. Germany scored highest, followed by Britain, Australia and New Zealand.

"The United States is not getting value for the money that is spent on health care," Commonwealth Fund president Karen Davis said in a telephone interview.

The group has consistently found that the United States, the only one of the six nations that does not provide universal health care, scores more poorly than the others on many measures of health care.

Congress, President George W. Bush, many employers and insurers have all agreed in recent months to overhaul the U.S. health care system - an uncoordinated conglomeration of employer-funded care, private health insurance and government programs.

The current system leaves about 45 million people with no insurance at all, according to U.S. government estimates from 2005, and many studies have shown most of these people do not receive preventive services that not only keep them healthier, but reduce long-term costs.

Davis said the fund's researchers looked at hard data for the report.

"It is pretty indisputable that we spend twice what other countries spend on average," she said.

Per capita health spending in the United States in 2004 was $6,102, twice that of Germany, which spent $3,005. Canada spent $3,165, New Zealand $2,083 and Australia $2,876, while Britain spent $2,546 per person.

Key Measures

"We focus primarily on measures that are sensitive to medical care making a difference - infant mortality and healthy lives at age 60," Davis said. "Those are pretty key measures, like how long you live and whether you are going to die before age 75."

Measures of other aspects of care such as cataract surgery or hip replacements is harder to come by, she said.

They also looked at convenience and again found the United States lacking - with a few exceptions.

"We include measures such as waiting more than four months for elective, non-emergency surgery. The United States doesn't do as well as Germany but it does a lot better than the other countries on waiting time for surgery," Davis said.

"We looked at the time it takes to get in to see your own doctor ... (or) once you go to the emergency room do you sit there for more than two hours, and truthfully, we don't do well on those measures," Davis said.

According to the report, 61 percent of U.S. patients said it was somewhat or very difficult to get care on nights or weekends, compared with 25 percent to 59 percent in other countries.

"The area where the U.S. health care system performs best is preventive care, an area that has been monitored closely for over a decade by managed care plans," the report reads.

The United States had the fewest patients - 84 percent - reporting that they have a regular doctor.

And U.S. doctors are the least wired, with the lowest percentage using electronic medical records or receiving electronic updates on recommended treatments.

----------------------------------------------------

http://www.commonwealthfund.org/publ...?doc_id=482678
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Commonwealth_Fund

What's even more disastrous are these expensive premiums (due to the profitability and inefficiency of HMOs) incur substantial costs on American employers. This increases the cost of doing business, degrades their worldwide competitive advantage, and because of NAFTA, FTAs and the like--American employers are packing up and moving overseas to places where its cheaper. As a result massive amounts of middle class and working class Americans are losing quality jobs.

[Hobbit]

I somehow doubt those countries provide 'better' health care, especially with such vague, subjective terms as 'quality' and such meaningless terms as 'access' and 'equity.' Ranking low on the equity scale means people actually have to pay for their own health care.

And one of the reasons our health care costs so much is because those socialized systems force the price of medical products (drugs, prosthetics, etc.) artificially low by threatening to revoke the patents and making it themselves. Because of this, the United States bears nearly the entire burden of paying for innovation. If the U.S. adopted the Canadian and European health care systems, we'd stop seeing new drugs on the market, and the first time a bug gains resistance to all modern antibiotics, we have a death on our hands because freeloaders don't want to pay for their own health care.

Then there's tort reform. Did you know that 85% of all obstetricians have been sued? Do you have any idea how low the chances are of defending such a suit, or the costs of that defense? Did you also know that that cost is passed on to those who purchase services from those doctors?

Socialized health care in the United States, if enacted, will be an unmitigated disaster, worldwide. We have problems, but handing those problems over to the government will only make things worse. Do you really want the same people who run the DMV running the ER?

[Said1]

And one of the reasons our health care costs so much is because those socialized systems force the price of medical products (drugs, prosthetics, etc.) artificially low by threatening to revoke the patents and making it themselves. Because of this, the United States bears nearly the entire burden of paying for innovation. If the U.S. adopted the Canadian and European health care systems, we'd stop seeing new drugs on the market, and the first time a bug gains resistance to all modern antibiotics, we have a death on our hands because freeloaders don't want to pay for their own health care.?

I'd enjoy reading the study/report etc the above was taken from, got a link to the actual stats or the opt-ed with the links the info came from?

[Trigg]

US Health Care Expensive, Inefficient: Report
By Maggie Fox
Reuters

Tuesday 15 May 2007

Americans get the poorest health care and yet pay the most compared to five other rich countries, according to a report released on Tuesday.

Germany, Britain, Australia and Canada all provide better care for less money, the Commonwealth Fund report found.

"The U.S. health care system ranks last compared with five other nations on measures of quality, access, efficiency, equity, and outcomes," the non-profit group which studies health care issues said in a statement.

Canada rates second worst out of the five overall. Germany scored highest, followed by Britain, Australia and New Zealand.

"The United States is not getting value for the money that is spent on health care," Commonwealth Fund president Karen Davis said in a telephone interview.

The group has consistently found that the United States, the only one of the six nations that does not provide universal health care, scores more poorly than the others on many measures of health care.

Congress, President George W. Bush, many employers and insurers have all agreed in recent months to overhaul the U.S. health care system - an uncoordinated conglomeration of employer-funded care, private health insurance and government programs.

The current system leaves about 45 million people with no insurance at all, according to U.S. government estimates from 2005, and many studies have shown most of these people do not receive preventive services that not only keep them healthier, but reduce long-term costs.

Davis said the fund's researchers looked at hard data for the report.

"It is pretty indisputable that we spend twice what other countries spend on average," she said.

Per capita health spending in the United States in 2004 was $6,102, twice that of Germany, which spent $3,005. Canada spent $3,165, New Zealand $2,083 and Australia $2,876, while Britain spent $2,546 per person.

Key Measures

"We focus primarily on measures that are sensitive to medical care making a difference - infant mortality and healthy lives at age 60," Davis said. "Those are pretty key measures, like how long you live and whether you are going to die before age 75."

Measures of other aspects of care such as cataract surgery or hip replacements is harder to come by, she said.

They also looked at convenience and again found the United States lacking - with a few exceptions.

"We include measures such as waiting more than four months for elective, non-emergency surgery. The United States doesn't do as well as Germany but it does a lot better than the other countries on waiting time for surgery," Davis said.

"We looked at the time it takes to get in to see your own doctor ... (or) once you go to the emergency room do you sit there for more than two hours, and truthfully, we don't do well on those measures," Davis said.

According to the report, 61 percent of U.S. patients said it was somewhat or very difficult to get care on nights or weekends, compared with 25 percent to 59 percent in other countries.

"The area where the U.S. health care system performs best is preventive care, an area that has been monitored closely for over a decade by managed care plans," the report reads.

The United States had the fewest patients - 84 percent - reporting that they have a regular doctor.

And U.S. doctors are the least wired, with the lowest percentage using electronic medical records or receiving electronic updates on recommended treatments.

----------------------------------------------------

http://www.commonwealthfund.org/publ...?doc_id=482678
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Commonwealth_Fund

What's even more disastrous are these expensive premiums (due to the profitability and inefficiency of HMOs) incur substantial costs on American employers. This increases the cost of doing business, degrades their worldwide competitive advantage, and because of NAFTA, FTAs and the like--American employers are packing up and moving overseas to places where its cheaper. As a result massive amounts of middle class and working class Americans are losing quality jobs.

Gee, I don't know. After listening to my sister who lives in Finland talk about waiting a month for an MRI and working in Florida for years and seeing the Canadians who come here for faster health care. I don't think we have it to bad.


Liked this bit
"The area where the U.S. health care system performs best is preventive care, an area that has been monitored closely for over a decade by managed care plans," the report reads."

Again, after watching what my sister has gone through, the medical community over there waits until the problem is full blown to do anything about it.

Yes, the US can have expensive health care, but how is this any different than the extreme taxes the Europeans pay for their "free care"???

[Psychoblues]

Don't expect a link or any actual study that can verify any of what was said there, Said1.

I'd enjoy reading the study/report etc the above was taken from, got a link to the actual stats or the opt-ed with the links the info came from?

Another opinion piece from a non expert on the subject.

[avatar4321]

It doesnt take a rocket scientists to understand that if you limit the amount companies can charge for medication that they arent going to spend the billions they need to develop those medications because they will never recoup the expenses of the research. Nor does it take a rocket scientist to understand that when other nations force you price down for drugs in their countries the price is going to have to go up somewhere else in order to recoup those loses or no more research will be done. Do you really need a link to understand that?

[Psychoblues]

Long past time, zyfrendylia.

US Health Care Expensive, Inefficient: Report
By Maggie Fox
Reuters

Tuesday 15 May 2007

Americans get the poorest health care and yet pay the most compared to five other rich countries, according to a report released on Tuesday.

Germany, Britain, Australia and Canada all provide better care for less money, the Commonwealth Fund report found.

"The U.S. health care system ranks last compared with five other nations on measures of quality, access, efficiency, equity, and outcomes," the non-profit group which studies health care issues said in a statement.

Canada rates second worst out of the five overall. Germany scored highest, followed by Britain, Australia and New Zealand.

"The United States is not getting value for the money that is spent on health care," Commonwealth Fund president Karen Davis said in a telephone interview.

The group has consistently found that the United States, the only one of the six nations that does not provide universal health care, scores more poorly than the others on many measures of health care.

Congress, President George W. Bush, many employers and insurers have all agreed in recent months to overhaul the U.S. health care system - an uncoordinated conglomeration of employer-funded care, private health insurance and government programs.

The current system leaves about 45 million people with no insurance at all, according to U.S. government estimates from 2005, and many studies have shown most of these people do not receive preventive services that not only keep them healthier, but reduce long-term costs.

Davis said the fund's researchers looked at hard data for the report.

"It is pretty indisputable that we spend twice what other countries spend on average," she said.

Per capita health spending in the United States in 2004 was $6,102, twice that of Germany, which spent $3,005. Canada spent $3,165, New Zealand $2,083 and Australia $2,876, while Britain spent $2,546 per person.

Key Measures

"We focus primarily on measures that are sensitive to medical care making a difference - infant mortality and healthy lives at age 60," Davis said. "Those are pretty key measures, like how long you live and whether you are going to die before age 75."

Measures of other aspects of care such as cataract surgery or hip replacements is harder to come by, she said.

They also looked at convenience and again found the United States lacking - with a few exceptions.

"We include measures such as waiting more than four months for elective, non-emergency surgery. The United States doesn't do as well as Germany but it does a lot better than the other countries on waiting time for surgery," Davis said.

"We looked at the time it takes to get in to see your own doctor ... (or) once you go to the emergency room do you sit there for more than two hours, and truthfully, we don't do well on those measures," Davis said.

According to the report, 61 percent of U.S. patients said it was somewhat or very difficult to get care on nights or weekends, compared with 25 percent to 59 percent in other countries.

"The area where the U.S. health care system performs best is preventive care, an area that has been monitored closely for over a decade by managed care plans," the report reads.

The United States had the fewest patients - 84 percent - reporting that they have a regular doctor.

And U.S. doctors are the least wired, with the lowest percentage using electronic medical records or receiving electronic updates on recommended treatments.

----------------------------------------------------

http://www.commonwealthfund.org/publ...?doc_id=482678
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Commonwealth_Fund

What's even more disastrous are these expensive premiums (due to the profitability and inefficiency of HMOs) incur substantial costs on American employers. This increases the cost of doing business, degrades their worldwide competitive advantage, and because of NAFTA, FTAs and the like--American employers are packing up and moving overseas to places where its cheaper. As a result massive amounts of middle class and working class Americans are losing quality jobs.

Hang in there, Americans are becoming more responsible for their civilisation and obligations to it every day!!!!!!!!!!! It will happen!!!!!!!!!!!

[diuretic]

Why are so many Americans opposed to single payer health care? I mean, seriously, why?

[LOki]

Why are so many Americans opposed to single payer health care? I mean, seriously, why?

I think Americans are opposed to the notion that government coercion has valid contribution towards establishing one's healthcare options. I think Americans are also opposed to the notion that the government should forcibly take one person's healthcare money (or beer money) and arbitrarily give it to someone else.

[Psychoblues]

Is your opinion collective or selective. You said, "Americans are opposed".

I think Americans are opposed to the notion that government coercion has valid contribution towards establishing one's healthcare options. I think Americans are also opposed to the notion that the government should forcibly take one person's healthcare money (or beer money) and arbitrarily give it to someone else.

I am an American and I am not one of those you of which you speak. Otherwise, you explain a lot. Thanks for the contribution to the conversation!!!!!!!!!!!

[Said1]

It doesnt take a rocket scientists to understand that if you limit the amount companies can charge for medication that they arent going to spend the billions they need to develop those medications because they will never recoup the expenses of the research. Nor does it take a rocket scientist to understand that when other nations force you price down for drugs in their countries the price is going to have to go up somewhere else in order to recoup those loses or no more research will be done. Do you really need a link to understand that?

It would be interesting to see how that system worked, from a legit source. Why is that so hard to understand? Subsidizing and price capping aren't the same thing, either sooooo I though Hobbit might like to share his info. It's not rocket science.

[loosecannon]

Why are so many Americans opposed to single payer health care? I mean, seriously, why?

Because most Americans have been trained to reflexively reject anything that smells of socialism.

The free enterprize kool aid is spiked.

[loosecannon]

I think Americans are opposed to the notion that government coercion has valid contribution towards establishing one's healthcare options. I think Americans are also opposed to the notion that the government should forcibly take one person's healthcare money (or beer money) and arbitrarily give it to someone else.

But americans defend social security as much as anything!

[diuretic]

Thanks for those responses. It appears that it's social conditioning - some might call it social engineering. I would think that it would be useful to describe or even list the desirable features of a heatlh system and then see which system provides those desirable features rather than any of us have a reflexive response.

[loosecannon]

Thanks for those responses. It appears that it's social conditioning - some might call it social engineering. I would think that it would be useful to describe or even list the desirable features of a heatlh system and then see which system provides those desirable features rather than any of us have a reflexive response.

We are ostensibly gearing up for that debate. But big medicine will undoubtedly pull the mighty wool over many eyes.