Time for "socialist" healthcare?

[Psychoblues]

You should have heard the whining, crying, and bullying during our debates in this country for Social Security Prescription Drug benefits legislation.

That's interesting that you use the phrase, "...being bullied into medical options by the government is wrong..." If that were the case in our system in Australia I would be furious. I'm not because that isn't the case. True there are checking systems to make sure the medical profession isn't ripping off the system by requiring unnecessary and expensive diagnostic tests (MRI for example) but that's a long way from "bullying". Medical decisions are made by the doctor in consultation with the patient and whatever's needed is done.

As for the "healthcare money" - no need to worry about it when there's a single payer system, it's paid by the government (with a co-payment from the patient in some cases). We pay taxes to ensure we all get access to proper heatlh care. Is that a bad thing?

As a result of all that we have a system that even attorneys can't figure out, Pharmaceutical Companies that are literally rolling in the dough and millions of Americans still in need of a prescription drug benefit, any benefit, even a thought of an actual benefit to them. As the millionaires become billionaires and the workers continue to lose to the point of even poverty income, our leaders rejoice in their inept accomplishments and apparently cannot weep for even the most abused of their constituencies.

Walk a mile in these shoes, dr, and promise me that you'll show me a real kangaroo.

[LOki]

Nope, not the case. They only investigate obvious over-use that isn't necessary. No-one is prevented from having an MRI or any other procedure if they need it.

I'm sure that's your story, and your government regulator's story, but instead of me, tell it to the guy who's not getting an MRI or some other procedure--I'll bet he disagrees with you.

Not a question of conscience. I, like millions of other Australians. pay my taxes and contibute to our health care system that way. When I need to use the services of a hospital or doctor, I do. I know that in our country someone who is unemployed or is on some sort of supporting pension can also get heatlh care when they need it because I and millions of other Australians pay taxes. I'm happy about that.

You should be paying your own bills, and not the bills of others unless you want to, and only to that point you want to--the same goes for other paying your bills. The government should not be forcing one set to pay the bill of another set. That is theft; and you should not be happy about that, unless you're a thief.

I'd have a fit of conscience if I thought someone who couldn't afford medical treatment wasn't getting it simply because they were indigent. To me that's offensive.

I wouldn't have such a fit, because I know what indigent means. Not being able to pay for things is what it is functionally about. Yet I'll say it again so it's clear, access to healthcare is a right, getting it is not. Health care services are valuable, and it is appropriate that one should pony up appropriate value for recieving them. If you don't like seeing the indigent not getting the healthcare you'd like them to have, because they can't afford it, pay for them--just don't force others to do it for you.

[Psychoblues]

You represent the ignorant few that simply do not understand the premise or purpose of government.

I'm sure that's your story, and your government regulator's story, but instead of me, tell it to the guy who's not getting an MRI or some other procedure--I'll bet he disagrees with you.

You should be paying your own bills, and not the bills of others unless you want to, and only to that point you want to--the same goes for other paying your bills. The government should not be forcing one set to pay the bill of another set. That is theft; and you should not be happy about that, unless you're a thief.


I wouldn't have such a fit, because I know what indigent means. Not being able to pay for things is what it is functionally about. Yet I'll say it again so it's clear, access to healthcare is a right, getting it is not. Health care services are valuable, and it is appropriate that one should pony up appropriate value for recieving them. If you don't like seeing the indigent not getting the healthcare you'd like them to have, because they can't afford it, pay for them--just don't force others to do it for you.

If I were to audit your life, how much government would I find that positively or negatively effected your life. The fact that you are posting here is a positive influence of OUR government. I'll go on and blindly point out a few more positive influences that your government has had on your life but get back with me on only this one issue, Looney.

[LOki]

You represent the ignorant few that simply do not understand the premise or purpose of government.

You represent the people who don't know what they're talking about.

You appear to be defending the brainwashed masses that believes the premise and purpose of government is to be your new mommy and daddy, who provides for you when you're parents are done doing so.

If I were to audit your life, how much government would I find that positively or negatively effected your life.

Your audit of my life is irrelevent to the discussion.

The fact that you are posting here is a positive influence of OUR government.

Irrelevent to the discussion, aside from that it illustrates a proper function of government--the protection of human rights.

I'll go on and blindly point out a few more positive influences that your government has had on your life but get back with me on only this one issue, Looney.

You can do so, but I'll just bet it will still be irrelevent to the discussion, Poop-breath.

[Psychoblues]

I can already determine that any enlightenment by me would be unwelcome to you, looney.

You represent the people who don't know what they're talking about.

You appear to be defending the brainwashed masses that believes the premise and purpose of government is to be your new mommy and daddy, who provides for you when you're parents are done doing so.

Your audit of my life is irrelevent to the discussion.

Irrelevent to the discussion, aside from that it illustrates a proper function of government--the protection of human rights.

You can do so, but I'll just bet it will still be irrelevent to the discussion, Poop-breath.

I'll tell you what is and has been irrelevant to the conversation and that I have been somewhat a part of it, it is YOU. From this point on I'll do my best to stay on topic. I doubt if you can do the same. You never have.

[LOki]

I can already determine that any enlightenment by me would be unwelcome to you, looney.

Translation: Psychoblues
I have no game; only name calling and baseless denial--there's no hope of me avoiding getting owned here--I'll just avoid having my cozy paradigm challenged by asserting it's unwelcome.

No, please "enlighten" me, poop-breath.

I'll tell you what is and has been irrelevant to the conversation and that I have been somewhat a part of it, it is YOU.

Translation: Psychoblues
I don't have a single valid argument to support my assertions--by best hope is to make a baseless accusation and hope it sticks.

If I am irrelevent, I can't say I'm terribly upset about it. It still doesn't change the fact that your posts were irrelevent to the discussion. I'm coming to the conclusion though, that this is a favored substantive-argument-avoidance tactic of yours. Good luck with it.

From this point on I'll do my best to stay on topic. I doubt if you can do the same. You never have.

Translation: Psychoblues
I should also deny the reality that this little foray off topic was entirely my own doing; I'll try to pin responsibility on LOki. I'll also throw in another baseless accusation for good measure.

I've been entirely on topic until you just recently chimed in with your baseless accusations and unsupported assertions. But, yes, please do get back on topic.

[Psychoblues]

You have not commented on the subject at hand.

No, please "enlighten" me, poop-breath.



If I am irrelevent, I can't say I'm terribly upset about it. It still doesn't change the fact that your posts were irrelevent to the discussion. I'm coming to the conclusion though, that this is a favored substantive-argument-avoidance tactic of yours. Good luck with it.




I've been entirely on topic until you just recently chimed in with your baseless accusations and unsupported assertions. But, yes, please do get back on topic.

Do you know what it is or are you enjoying your fresh meal of poop? Dog poop? Cat poop? Makes no difference to you does it, looney? YOU just like POOP!!!!!!!!

[LOki]

You have not commented on the subject at hand.

Setting aside this little excursion off topic that has been engineered by you, all of my comments have been on topic.

Do you know what it is or are you enjoying your fresh meal of poop? Dog poop? Cat poop? Makes no difference to you does it, looney? YOU just like POOP!!!!!!!!

Baseless conjecture, poop-breath. You should be reminded that is your breath that smells of your last meal, poop-breath.

Now how about now, doing your best to be on topic?

[Psychoblues]

Well, knock me on my ass!!!!!!!!!!!

Setting aside this little excursion off topic that has been engineered by you, all of my comments have been on topic.

Baseless conjecture, poop-breath. You should be reminded that is your breath that smells of your last meal, poop-breath.

Now how about now, doing your best to be on topic?

When you finish eating all that shit you've been talking about can you comment on the subject of health care?

[LOki]

When you finish eating all that shit you've been talking about can you comment on the subject of health care?

Specificly and precisely, what "shit" are you talking about?

And please, be specific and precise, to best get back on topic.

[Psychoblues]

simple discussion. You didn't get it. You tried to crash the party and start calling names.

Specificly and precisely, what "shit" are you talking about?

And please, be specific and precise, to best get back on topic.

What are you talking about, shit eater loonie?

[MtnBiker]

Ok guys, poop breath and shit eating are not contributing to the topic. You all are capable of much better than that.

[Psychoblues]

Dig it, MtnBiker.

Ok guys, poop breath and shit eating are not contributing to the topic. You all are capable of much better than that.

I'm clocking out of this conversation until more substantial information is provided. Please excuse my indescretions as previously demonstrated.

[MtnBiker]

We have touched on this topic before in other threads.

Is health care a right granted to US citizens?

[LOki]

We have touched on this topic before in other threads.

Is health care a right granted to US citizens?

I've mentioned earlier that access to health care is a right, but getting it is not.

You should not be denied health care by coercive force or fraud--that such force or fraud should be initiated by the government on one's behalf is not justification for doing so. Yet healthcare still requires valuable equipment, valuable medicines, and valuable people with valuable expertise, and valuable time. If you intend to take possesion of all that value, doing so without contributing equal value to what you recieve is theft--just like it is in any other instance. Getting injured or sick does not entitle one to the lives and health of others.