Macro Evolutionists...

[darin]

Was just sorta thinking...how did blood 'evolve'? Did the veins and arteries accidentally mutate first, then later blood mutated from other stuff and start flowing? What about the heart? Did it mutate itself to become connected to the blood-highways? When or how would the brain have evolved to know to control a heart, or lungs? When the first small-cellular animals either decided or mutated into larger animals, which parts of the larger animals were among the first anomalies to happen/chance themselves into existence? If we can identify one mutation, say, an ancient animal mutating parts of itself, or having a mutation that was indeed a heart, what kept the heart alive - what tissue worked to ensure the DNA-footprint for a heart passed on to others of its kind? I put this thread in this subforum because macro evolution is most-certainly a religion akin to man-made global warming and what-not.

[Noir]

I'm not sure about the specific answers to your questions But I dare say the answer is wonderful. I'd suggest emailing evolutionary scientists / university labs for a proper answer or guidance to reading matter on the subject.

What I've always thought fascinating is that a creature like the star fish functions with no brain at all, which just seem alien!

[bullypulpit]

Evolution has decades of scientific research to support it. Creation "science" has centuries of religious dogma as its underpinning. Science wins.

[darin]

Evolution has decades of scientific research to support it. Creation "science" has centuries of religious dogma as its underpinning. Science wins.

Macro evolution is too steeped in mysticism/religion for my tastes. Props to you for having WAYYYYYYYYY outside the box thinking and massive-amounts of faith in your chosen religion.

[Noir]

Macro evolution is too steeped in mysticism/religion for my tastes. Props to you for having WAYYYYYYYYY outside the box thinking and massive-amounts of faith in your chosen religion.

The problem someone who doesn't believe in it has, is disproving the evidence in its favour. Like Erogenous Retroviral DNA. (ERVs)

ERVs Show beautifully the link between all life, and the only way it could exist in a creatist view of the world would be if a creator designed all life to look asif it had all evolved naturally, and why would a god do that? Makes no sense to me.

[darin]

The problem someone who doesn't believe in it has, is disproving the evidence in its favour. Like Erogenous Retroviral DNA. (ERVs)

ERVs Show beautifully the link between all life, and the only way it could exist in a creatist view of the world would be if a creator designed all life to look asif it had all evolved naturally, and why would a god do that? Makes no sense to me.

From a humanistic practical sort of view think of it like this. Ford makes car x. and car y, and car z. All share parts/similarity. The fact life has some similar features and design (DESIGN) screams 'intelligent design' to our systems. You're believing all creation - okay, just take 'mammals' alone - Mammals all just magically, by pure luck designed remarkably-similar reproductive systems/processes (few outlyers notwithstanding). I see how linked life is and think, just like when I see two fords using the same systems of ignition, gear-selection, braking, etc, and just KNOW the chances of these systems happening by pure random chance is so astronomically low as to consider it impossible.

I see the design of life and think the same thing. I have not faith-enough to believe the myriad of different-but-alike biological systems (entities, plants, etc) simply arrived in such close relation through "millions of years of random chance".

The more I study (layman) science and biology the more I'm driven to 'this shit is so complexly awesome and cool, and the probability of random chance or your beloved 'magic' somehow causing it - it MUST be part of a design'.

Macro evolution: Magic. Mystics. No answers.

Intelligent design: Order. Facts. Science. Evidence.

[bullypulpit]

Macro evolution is too steeped in mysticism/religion for my tastes. Props to you for having WAYYYYYYYYY outside the box thinking and massive-amounts of faith in your chosen religion.

Science has makes fundamental assumptions about a given entity, event or process and sets about the task of proving...or disproving...those assumptions. Religion makes basic assumptions about a a given entity, event or process and uncritically accepts those assumptions, decrying any who would point out the absurdity of such a position as somehow morally and/or spiritually defective for their lack of faith.

[PostmodernProphet]

But I dare say the answer is wonderful.

perhaps even miraculous.....

and the only way it could exist in a creatist view of the world would be if a creator designed all life to look asif it had all evolved naturally

after all, we all know that everything is exactly what it looks like.....

Hint - Study ERVs.

so tell me, why do you think ERVs lead to a conclusion of macro evolution?......

[Noir]

so tell me, why do you think ERVs lead to a conclusion of macro evolution?......

Because they are a clear, readable genetic pathway, that follows exactly how you would expect from class to class (class being Birds, Reptiles etc) and within species in each class.

Retro-viruses, as their name suggests, work backwards to normal viruses, from an enzyme to RNA to DNA, this leaves a mark on the code if said retro-virus joins a replicating code (like a sperm cell that goes on to infuse with an egg) then that mark will be on the genetic code of all of that creatures descendants.

Obviously the chances of this happing are tiny, amazingly tiny, the chances of the same code getting into different classes of animals, in exactly the same place in a code billions of letters long is just inconceivable.

UNLESS there is a creator who designed all life to look as if it had evolved in a certain way, and luckily enough that certain way that we discovered with the discovery of ERVs just happened to match exactly all our current predictions in all the different fields of biology.

Also, for anyone who'd like to research ERVs more i'd recommend here - http://www.evolutionarymodel.com/ervs.htm it covers all the bases, and breaks down the process into videos, moving diagrams and groups.

[PostmodernProphet]

Obviously the chances of this happing are tiny, amazingly tiny, the chances of the same code getting into different classes of animals, in exactly the same place in a code billions of letters long is just inconceivable.

why would it be inconceivable that the same type of code would not intentionally be in every living thing.....isn't it true that you can find traces of identical computer coding in both supercomputers and toasters.....there's nothing inconceivable about it at all......

you're argument is, "its amazing that what we found matches what would expect" when the fact of the matter is what we "expect" is simply the pattern we've observed.....that doesn't mean the pattern is the result of some random event instead of a plan.......

[Noir]

why would it be inconceivable that the same type of code would not intentionally be in every living thing.....isn't it true that you can find traces of identical computer coding in both supercomputers and toasters.....there's nothing inconceivable about it at all......

There isn't much other way to say this than this - You obviously don't understand what ERVs are. Please read up on them, they are redundant bits of code, that are in every way totally useless and only their by a biological anomaly.

Why would a god make around 4% of our DNA of totally useless, an not only that, but put such ERVs in all living creatures *and* pattern it in such a way that when studied it looks as if there is a biological link?

you're argument is, "its amazing that what we found matches what would expect" when the fact of the matter is what we "expect" is simply the pattern we've observed.....that doesn't mean the pattern is the result of some random event instead of a plan.......

Maybe it is part of a plan, maybe it isn't, i don't know, however DMP is stating that Macro-Evolution is *not* part of gods plan.