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    Default Holder: U.S. can lawfully target American citizens

    Rev, take a Xanax before reading this story in it's entirety, or a Valium. And then take another when you hear me say I am in 100% agreement with him!

    The U.S. government has the right to order the killing of American citizens overseas if they are senior al-Qaeda leaders who pose an imminent terrorist threat and cannot reasonably be captured, Attorney General Eric H. Holder Jr. said Monday.

    “Any decision to use lethal force against a United States citizen — even one intent on murdering Americans and who has become an operational leader of al-Qaeda in a foreign land — is among the gravest that government leaders can face,” Holder said in a speech at Northwestern University’s law school in Chicago. “The American people can be — and deserve to be — assured that actions taken in their defense are consistent with their values and their laws.”

    Holder’s discussion of lethal force against U.S. citizens did not mention any individual by name, but his address was clearly animated by the targeting of Anwar al-Awlaki, a senior figure in al-Qaeda’s Yemeni affiliate. Awlaki, who was born in New Mexico, was killed in a U.S. drone strike in Yemen in September.

    Since that operation, the Obama administration has faced calls to explain the legal framework behind its decision to target Awlaki and to release at least portions of a classified memorandum by the Justice Department’s Office of Legal Counsel that contains its evidence, reasoning and conclusions.

    Holder’s speech represented the administration’s most elaborate public explanation to date for targeted killings. And it followed a prolonged internal debate about how to inform the public about one of the most extraordinary decisions a government can take without explicitly acknowledging the ongoing classified drone program.

    Among the most revealing parts of the speech was Holder’s discussion of some of the factors the administration reviews before deciding that an individual represents an “imminent threat.” He said the critical factors include the “relevant window of opportunity to act, the possible harm that missing the window would cause to civilians and the likelihood of heading off future disastrous attacks against the United States.”

    He said the president is not required by the Constitution to delay action until some “theoretical end stage of planning — when the precise time, place and manner of an attack become clear.”

    The attorney general’s “flexible definition of ‘imminent threat’ is absolutely appropriate as applied to terrorist planners, but it may be unsettling to many in the international community who criticized President Bush for his principle of preemption,” said John B. Bellinger, who served as a legal adviser to the State Department in the George W. Bush administration.
    http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/...FtR_story.html
    “You know the world is going crazy when the best rapper is a white guy, the best golfer is a black guy, the tallest guy in the NBA is Chinese, the Swiss hold the America's Cup, France is accusing the U.S. of arrogance, Germany doesn't want to go to war, and the three most powerful men in America are named "Bush", "Dick", and "Colin." Need I say more?” - Chris Rock

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    first thing I thought when I seen this thread, was oh Lord, Rev gonna be up in arms now.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ConHog View Post
    first thing I thought when I seen this thread, was oh Lord, Rev gonna be up in arms now.
    I wish I had my hands on the controller of a drone. Just like playing a video game, I'd shoot the fuck out of a terrorist. I don't care if he's American, British, Iranian, Saudi Arabian.... matters little to me, if you're a terrorist, and you're plotting and/or have killed Americans or our interests, you deserve what every other terrorist gets - killed.
    “You know the world is going crazy when the best rapper is a white guy, the best golfer is a black guy, the tallest guy in the NBA is Chinese, the Swiss hold the America's Cup, France is accusing the U.S. of arrogance, Germany doesn't want to go to war, and the three most powerful men in America are named "Bush", "Dick", and "Colin." Need I say more?” - Chris Rock

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    well well,

    Bush's Lawyer John Wu said it's legal to crush children's testicles to get info on in the war on terror, and Obama's Holder says it's legal to kill any terrorist ,so called, by their own standards anytime anywhere. Slippery Slope on presidential powers is fine though i guess. It's good to be the King.
    They are all Lawyers Obama's a constitutional lawyer so, it's OK we can trust lawyers, to do what's right here.
    A people like Jim will just kill anyone the gov't SAYS is a terrorist who MIGHT do something one day maybe. Those Pre-Criminals or Pre-Terrorist. Obama's Pre-Justice, no need for trials, no need for evidence... ever. Nat'l securty and all that, saynomore wink wink. that's the American way yes siree. Dictatorial execution powers in the hand of the president. It's legal Holder says so.

    And Jim likes it.



    there's a lot that i could say and post


    but these 2 lines from the Declaration of Independence come to mind. In the part listing complaints about the old King you know"

    "...For depriving us in many cases, of the benefits of Trial by Jury:
    For transporting us beyond Seas to be tried for pretended offences... "

    <dl><dd>


    this item from Brazil come top of mind too for some reason ...
    </dd></dl><object style="height: 390px; width: 640px"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/nWbIxFKtTmE?version=3&feature=player_detailpage">< param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"><param name="allowScriptAccess" value="always"><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/nWbIxFKtTmE?version=3&feature=player_detailpage" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" allowScriptAccess="always" width="640" height="360"></object>
    It is proper to take alarm at the first experiment on our liberties. The freeman of America did not wait till usurped power had strengthened itself by exercise, and entangled the question in precedents. James Madison
    Live as free people, yet without employing your freedom as a pretext for wickedness; but live at all times as servants of God.
    1 Peter 2:16

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    Quote Originally Posted by revelarts View Post
    well well,

    Bush's Lawyer John Wu said it's legal to crush children's testicles to get info on in the war on terror, and Obama's Holder says it's legal to kill any terrorist ,so called, by their own standards anytime anywhere. Slippery Slope on presidential powers is fine though i guess. It's good to be the King.
    They are all Lawyers Obama's a constitutional lawyer so, it's OK we can trust lawyers, to do what's right here.
    A people like Jim will just kill anyone the gov't SAYS is a terrorist who MIGHT do something one day maybe. Those Pre-Criminals or Pre-Terrorist. Obama's Pre-Justice, no need for trials, no need for evidence... ever. Nat'l securty and all that, saynomore wink wink. that's the American way yes siree. Dictatorial execution powers in the hand of the president. It's legal Holder says so.

    And Jim likes it.<object style="height: 390px; width: 640px"></object>
    You're a full blown idiot. You foam at the mouth because you don't like our government, and you'll make any asinine statement you can to further your idiocy. NEVER have I said anything remotely to what I placed in bold. Furthermore, this discussion is about proven terrorists who perhaps might kill imminently.

    Take the Xanax I prescribed and post again when the foaming subsides, and when you can't make a post without putting words in other peoples mouths. How many times does this make now that you have done this, Rev?
    “You know the world is going crazy when the best rapper is a white guy, the best golfer is a black guy, the tallest guy in the NBA is Chinese, the Swiss hold the America's Cup, France is accusing the U.S. of arrogance, Germany doesn't want to go to war, and the three most powerful men in America are named "Bush", "Dick", and "Colin." Need I say more?” - Chris Rock

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    And try telling the "truth" about the John Yoo incident. It was another kook like you asking the idiotic question to him, he simply pointed out that no treaty existed to make it unlawful. He didn't go out of his way like Holder did in this instance, he had a fruit loop professor ask him a stupid ass question, so that down the road another kook can make it appear like Yoo is a testicle fiend.
    “You know the world is going crazy when the best rapper is a white guy, the best golfer is a black guy, the tallest guy in the NBA is Chinese, the Swiss hold the America's Cup, France is accusing the U.S. of arrogance, Germany doesn't want to go to war, and the three most powerful men in America are named "Bush", "Dick", and "Colin." Need I say more?” - Chris Rock

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    Quote Originally Posted by jimnyc View Post
    Rev, take a Xanax before reading this story in it's entirety, or a Valium. And then take another when you hear me say I am in 100% agreement with him!



    http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/...FtR_story.html
    I understood that there were allegations against him, not proof. I understood too, that we had opportunities to arrest him and chose not to. Too much misinformation from this Administration. A day late and a dollar short.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Intense View Post
    I understood that there were allegations against him, not proof. I understood too, that we had opportunities to arrest him and chose not to. Too much misinformation from this Administration. A day late and a dollar short.
    Read the lame wiki version alone - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anwar_al-Awlaki

    There was MORE than enough proof to show he not only had ties to terrorism, but that he was one of the leaders of an Al Qaeda division. Even Yemen had him on their most wanted list. He was directly involved in the Fort Hood shootings that killed 13 American soldiers. There is a long and storied history between Awlaki and terrorism.

    As for the arrests, first time I'm hearing about this. When? Where? Can you give us details? Either way though, doesn't excuse his terror activities and the planning/killing of Americans.
    “You know the world is going crazy when the best rapper is a white guy, the best golfer is a black guy, the tallest guy in the NBA is Chinese, the Swiss hold the America's Cup, France is accusing the U.S. of arrogance, Germany doesn't want to go to war, and the three most powerful men in America are named "Bush", "Dick", and "Colin." Need I say more?” - Chris Rock

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    Quote Originally Posted by jimnyc View Post
    Read the lame wiki version alone - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anwar_al-Awlaki

    There was MORE than enough proof to show he not only had ties to terrorism, but that he was one of the leaders of an Al Qaeda division. Even Yemen had him on their most wanted list. He was directly involved in the Fort Hood shootings that killed 13 American soldiers. There is a long and storied history between Awlaki and terrorism.

    As for the arrests, first time I'm hearing about this. When? Where? Can you give us details? Either way though, doesn't excuse his terror activities and the planning/killing of Americans.
    (Reuters) - American militants like Anwar al-Awlaki are placed on a kill or capture list by a secretive panel of senior government officials, which then informs the president of its decisions, according to officials.

    There is no public record of the operations or decisions of the panel, which is a subset of the White House's National Security Council, several current and former officials said. Neither is there any law establishing its existence or setting out the rules by which it is supposed to operate.

    The panel was behind the decision to add Awlaki, a U.S.-born militant preacher with alleged al Qaeda connections, to the target list. He was killed by a CIA drone strike in Yemen late last month.

    The role of the president in ordering or ratifying a decision to target a citizen is fuzzy. White House spokesman Tommy Vietor declined to discuss anything about the process.

    Current and former officials said that to the best of their knowledge, Awlaki, who the White House said was a key figure in al Qaeda in the Arabian Peninsula, al Qaeda's Yemen-based affiliate, had been the only American put on a government list targeting people for capture or death due to their alleged involvement with militants.

    The White House is portraying the killing of Awlaki as a demonstration of President Barack Obama's toughness toward militants who threaten the United States. But the process that led to Awlaki's killing has drawn fierce criticism from both the political left and right.

    In an ironic turn, Obama, who ran for president denouncing predecessor George W. Bush's expansive use of executive power in his "war on terrorism," is being attacked in some quarters for using similar tactics. They include secret legal justifications and undisclosed intelligence assessments.

    Liberals criticized the drone attack on an American citizen as extra-judicial murder.

    Conservatives criticized Obama for refusing to release a Justice Department legal opinion that reportedly justified killing Awlaki. They accuse Obama of hypocrisy, noting his administration insisted on publishing Bush-era administration legal memos justifying the use of interrogation techniques many equate with torture, but refused to make public its rationale for killing a citizen without due process.

    Some details about how the administration went about targeting Awlaki emerged on Tuesday when the top Democrat on the House Intelligence Committee, Representative Dutch Ruppersberger, was asked by reporters about the killing.

    The process involves "going through the National Security Council, then it eventually goes to the president, but the National Security Council does the investigation, they have lawyers, they review, they look at the situation, you have input from the military, and also, we make sure that we follow international law," Ruppersberger said.

    LAWYERS CONSULTED

    Other officials said the role of the president in the process was murkier than what Ruppersberger described.

    They said targeting recommendations are drawn up by a committee of mid-level National Security Council and agency officials. Their recommendations are then sent to the panel of NSC "principals," meaning Cabinet secretaries and intelligence unit chiefs, for approval. The panel of principals could have different memberships when considering different operational issues, they said.

    The officials insisted on anonymity to discuss sensitive information.

    They confirmed that lawyers, including those in the Justice Department, were consulted before Awlaki's name was added to the target list.

    Two principal legal theories were advanced, an official said: first, that the actions were permitted by Congress when it authorized the use of military forces against militants in the wake of the attacks of September 11, 2001; and they are permitted under international law if a country is defending itself.

    http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/...79475C20111005
    We are agreed that He was an Enemy. My reference is to poor form and poor public relations in how it was handled. Obviously, this Clown would have been a fountain of Information. That is lost now. The issue of proper form and due process was a problem. The Article I linked to does bring up a few issues. I will see what I can find on Awlaki's travels before the assassination.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Intense View Post
    We are agreed that He was an Enemy. My reference is to poor form and poor public relations in how it was handled. Obviously, this Clown would have been a fountain of Information. That is lost now. The issue of proper form and due process was a problem. The Article I linked to does bring up a few issues. I will see what I can find on Awlaki's travels before the assassination.
    Killing a terrorist hell bent on killing American and/or our interests, is not assassination. We are at war with terrorism and he was a terrorist. You don't get to plan the killing of Americans, hide in another country and the Constitution.

    What if it were a battlefield, and an American came charging at our troops? We try to tackle or subdue him in the name of "due process"? We shouldn't have to scour other countries for terrorists and figure out how to "police" them so that we can bring them back to the US to answer charges. If they're in another country, trying to kill Americans, then they are enemies just like other terrorists, and deserve to meet their maker.
    “You know the world is going crazy when the best rapper is a white guy, the best golfer is a black guy, the tallest guy in the NBA is Chinese, the Swiss hold the America's Cup, France is accusing the U.S. of arrogance, Germany doesn't want to go to war, and the three most powerful men in America are named "Bush", "Dick", and "Colin." Need I say more?” - Chris Rock

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    Quote Originally Posted by jimnyc View Post
    What if it were a battlefield, and an American came charging at our troops?
    SCOTUS has already ruled on that one iirc. They haven't had a chance on the other.
    "when socialism fails, blame capitalism and demand more socialism." - A friend
    "You know the difference between libs and right-wingers? Libs STFU when evidence refutes their false beliefs." - Another friend
    “Don't waste your time with explanations: people only hear what they want to hear.” - Paulo Coelho


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    Quote Originally Posted by Intense View Post
    We are agreed that He was an Enemy. My reference is to poor form and poor public relations in how it was handled. Obviously, this Clown would have been a fountain of Information. That is lost now. The issue of proper form and due process was a problem. The Article I linked to does bring up a few issues. I will see what I can find on Awlaki's travels before the assassination.
    Don't skip his "Hell Bent" trip to the pentagon where he was a guest. and somehow was not dangerous enough to be captured there either. Or that wa s before he turned evil, but wait I thought Muslims were Always evil and Hell Bent on killing ... I can't keep the propaganda strait. maybe i'm over thinking it
    we are suppose to just forget about his visit to the pentagon, down the memory hole with that. keep the thinking clear here. He's an enemy of the state! he's always been and enemy of the state! We've alway been at war with the muslims we always have to kill 1st ask questions later... except the with Saudis with 9-11 terrorist connections um .. ok wait a minute.
    http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/Blott...6#.T1jrvMwf9eQ
    It is proper to take alarm at the first experiment on our liberties. The freeman of America did not wait till usurped power had strengthened itself by exercise, and entangled the question in precedents. James Madison
    Live as free people, yet without employing your freedom as a pretext for wickedness; but live at all times as servants of God.
    1 Peter 2:16

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    Quote Originally Posted by revelarts View Post
    Don't skip his "Hell Bent" trip to the pentagon where he was a guest. and somehow was not dangerous enough to be captured there either. Or that wa s before he turned evil, but wait I thought Muslims were Always evil and Hell Bent on killing ... I can't keep the propaganda strait. maybe i'm over thinking it
    we are suppose to just forget about his visit to the pentagon, down the memory hole with that. keep the thinking clear here. He's an enemy of the state! he's always been and enemy of the state! We've alway been at war with the muslims we always have to kill 1st ask questions later... except the with Saudis with 9-11 terrorist connections um .. ok wait a minute.
    http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/Blott...6#.T1jrvMwf9eQ
    Hey, it wasn't me who said we couldn't even go as far as a background check on a terrorist unless we have bonafide proof that he killed at least 10 Americans, that was you.
    “You know the world is going crazy when the best rapper is a white guy, the best golfer is a black guy, the tallest guy in the NBA is Chinese, the Swiss hold the America's Cup, France is accusing the U.S. of arrogance, Germany doesn't want to go to war, and the three most powerful men in America are named "Bush", "Dick", and "Colin." Need I say more?” - Chris Rock

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    From the Court Case.

    UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT
    FOR THE DISTRICT OF COLUMBIA
    NASSER AL-AULAQI, on his own behalf
    and as next friend of Anwar Al-Aulaqi,
    Plaintiff,
    v. Civil Action No. 10-1469 (JDB)
    BARACK H. OBAMA, in his official
    capacity as President of the United States;
    ROBERT M. GATES, in his official
    capacity as Secretary of Defense; and
    LEON E. PANETTA, in his official
    capacity as Director of the Central
    Intelligence Agency,
    Defendants.

    BACKGROUND
    This case arises from the United States's alleged policy of "authorizing, planning, and
    carrying out targeted killings, including of U.S. citizens, outside the context of armed conflict."
    See Compl. ¶ 13. Specifically, plaintiff, a Yemeni citizen, claims that the United States has
    authorized the targeted killing of plaintiff’s son, Anwar Al-Aulaqi, in violation of the
    Constitution and international law. See id. ¶¶ 3-4, 9, 17, 21, 23.
    Anwar Al-Aulaqi is a Muslim cleric with dual U.S.-Yemeni citizenship, who is currently
    believed to be in hiding in Yemen. See id. ¶¶ 9, 26; see also Defs.' Mem. in Supp. of Defs.' Mot.
    to Dismiss ("Defs.' Mem.") [Docket Entry 15], at 1; Pl.'s Mem. in Support of Pl.'s Mot. for
    Prelim. Inj. ("Pl.'s Mem.") [Docket Entry 3], Decl. of Ben Wizner ("Wizner Decl."), Ex. AA.
    Anwar Al-Aulaqi was born in New Mexico in 1971, and spent much of his early life in the
    United States, attending college at Colorado State University and receiving his master's degree
    from San Diego State University before moving to Yemen in 2004. See Wizner Decl., Ex. AB,
    Decl. of Dr. Nasser Al-Aulaqi ("Al-Aulaqi Decl.") ¶¶ 3-4. On July 16, 2010, the U.S. Treasury
    -4-
    Department's Office of Foreign Assets Control ("OFAC") designated Anwar Al-Aulaqi as a
    Specially Designated Global Terrorist ("SDGT") in light of evidence that he was "acting for or on
    behalf of al-Qa'ida in the Arabian Peninsula (AQAP)" and "providing financial, material or
    technological support for, or other services to or in support of, acts of terrorism[.]" See Defs.'
    Mem. at 6-7 (quoting Designation of ANWAR AL-AULAQI Pursuant to Executive Order 13224
    and the Global Terrorism Sanctions Regulations, 31 C.F.R. Part 594, 75 Fed. Reg. 43233 (July
    16, 2010)) (hereinafter, "OFAC Designation"). In its designation, OFAC explained that Anwar
    Al-Aulaqi had "taken on an increasingly operational role" in AQAP since late 2009, as he
    "facilitated training camps in Yemen in support of acts of terrorism" and provided "instructions"
    to Umar Farouk Abdulmutallab, the man accused of attempting to detonate a bomb aboard a
    Detroit-bound Northwest Airlines flight on Christmas Day 2009. See OFAC Designation.
    Media sources have also reported ties between Anwar Al-Aulaqi and Nidal Malik Hasan, the
    U.S. Army Major suspected of killing 13 people in a November 2009 shooting at Fort Hood,
    Texas. See, e.g., Wizner Decl., Exs. E, F, H, J, L, M, V, W. According to a January 2010 Los
    Angeles Times article, unnamed "U.S. officials" have discovered that Anwar Al-Aulaqi and
    Hasan exchanged as many as eighteen e-mails prior to the Fort Hood shootings. See id., Ex. E.
    Recently, Anwar Al-Aulaqi has made numerous public statements calling for "jihad
    against the West," praising the actions of "his students" Abdulmutallab and Hasan, and asking
    others to "follow suit." See, e.g., Wizner Decl., Ex. V; Defs.' Reply to Pl.'s Opp. to Defs.' Mot. to
    Dismiss ("Defs.' Reply") [Docket Entry 29], Exs. 1-2; Defs.' Mem., Ex. 1, Unclassified Decl. of
    James R. Clapper, Dir. of Nat'l Intelligence ("Clapper Decl.") ¶ 16. Michael Leiter, Director of
    the National Counterterrorism Center, has explained that Anwar Al-Aulaqi's "familiarity with the
    -5-
    West" is a "key concern[]" for the United States, see Defs.' Mem., Ex. 3, and media sources have
    similarly cited Anwar Al-Aulaqi's ability to communicate with an English-speaking audience as a
    source of "particular concern" to U.S. officials, see Wizner Decl., Ex. V. But despite the United
    States's expressed "concern" regarding Anwar Al-Aulaqi's "familiarity with the West" and his
    "role in AQAP," see Defs.' Mem., Ex. 3, the United States has not yet publicly charged Anwar
    Al-Aulaqi with any crime. See Pl.'s Mem. in Opp. to Defs.' Mot. to Dismiss ("Pl.'s Opp.")
    [Docket Entry 25], at 9. For his part, Anwar Al-Aulaqi has made clear that he has no intention of
    making himself available for criminal prosecution in U.S. courts, remarking in a May 2010
    AQAP video interview that he "will never surrender" to the United States, and that "[i]f the
    Americans want me, [they can] come look for me." See Wizner Decl., Ex. V; see also Clapper
    Decl. ¶ 16; Defs.' Mem. at 14 n.5 (quoting Anwar Al-Aulaqi as stating, "I have no intention of
    turning myself in to [the Americans]. If they want me, let them search for me.").
    Plaintiff does not deny his son's affiliation with AQAP or his designation as a SDGT.
    Rather, plaintiff challenges his son's alleged unlawful inclusion on so-called "kill lists" that he
    contends are maintained by the CIA and the Joint Special Operations Command ("JSOC"). See
    Pl.'s Mem. at 5; see also Compl. ¶¶ 3, 19. In support of his claim that the United States has
    placed Anwar Al-Aulaqi on "kill lists," plaintiff cites a number of media reports, which attribute
    their information to anonymous U.S. military and intelligence sources. See, e.g., Compl. ¶ 19;
    Pl.'s Mem. at 5; Wizner Decl., Exs. F, H, L. For example, in January 2010, The Washington Post
    reported that, according to unnamed military officials, Anwar Al-Aulaqi was on "a shortlist of
    U.S. citizens" that JSOC was authorized to kill or capture.

    https://ecf.dcd.uscourts.gov/cgi-bin...?2010cv1469-31

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    The Anwar Awlaki Timeline

    Contents:

    Early years in America
    Busted for Prostitution
    The 9/11 Plot
    Yemen
    Fort Hood
    Christmas Day Bombing
    U.S. response: Airstrike in Yemen
    CIA Takes Over Drone Attacks
    Death

    http://awlaki.sethhettena.com/

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