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  1. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by jimnyc View Post
    Then why has congress voted to authorize the military to take action so many times? Why has no one from congress or past administrations been charged with crimes for going to war? According to you, the USA has committed "war crimes" nearly 200 times.
    Quote Originally Posted by jimnyc View Post
    And he DOES, as 190x previously shows, whether you like it or not.
    Quote Originally Posted by ConHog View Post
    Wrong again Revvers, it is YOU who is mad that the POTUS is within his constitutional authority to do so. YOU don't like the law. I may disagree with some of the decisions , but they ARE within the President's powers.

    Stop trying to rewrite the COTUS.
    Quote Originally Posted by jimnyc View Post
    Or more specifically, the war powers resolution. It would be "illegal" for a president to declare war without congress, but there is nothing wrong with the actions so long as they remain consistent with the resolution. If some don't like the resolution, they should fight to have it changed.

    Several Senators and congress people HAVE tried to Charge many presidents with a war crimes, however to many Other congress people think like Jim and Con or just hate to "put the country through that" "what good would it do?", or they are simply partisan and won't go against "their" president, or are simply intimidated or they agree with the unlawful actions and basically know they they couldn't get a declaration passed in congress if the tried it and are happy that the Dictator & Chief has taken the action UNILATERALLY. that is, One man Decides that the whole nation goes to war. If you guys think that's constitutional or that's the intent of the law your crazy. And if it is what you believe you have NO right to claim any other rights and priveleges of the constitution. the Right to own a gun is BS if you can read the constitution to say that ONE MAN can Send the country to war is Constitutional. Even with the unconstitional caveat of the war powers act there are several hurdels that have not been met by many Presidents.

    And Concering the 190+ times, We'd have to touch on each oone by one to see what was done. Some the president just moved troops but there was no action, Other they tried to use a legal cover of "criminal activy" Some where given a backhanded approval as "military action" which is esetial war. But often the presidents just plain broke the law.




    Quote Originally Posted by logroller View Post
    Why do you put that in quotes...usually that's done because it's someone else's quote or its an expression not to be taken literally.
    I put it in quotes becuase some people on the board seem to be for ANY, law good or bad, as long as it's "DA LAW". Except it seems when it's the constitution against their particular points.

    however we see that's not Really the case, that Fact that it was done 190+ times Means Here SOMEHOW that it's magically legal. even though it's NOT the law. If you can get away with it 190+ it's legal. Then marijuana should be legal too, running a red light, going pass the speed limit, Heck serial killing or rape, I guess, if getting away with it is the standard and not what the law says.
    we don't look at the law we look at how many times it was broken, and have to defend the idea that they weren't charged. It's just a frustrating double standard that I've seen too often here. when the gov't breaks the law it's not REALLY breaking the law unless they are Charged and prosecuted. Even farther if they do happened to get charged it's "just partisan" and since it's been done so may times it's really OK.
    It is proper to take alarm at the first experiment on our liberties. The freeman of America did not wait till usurped power had strengthened itself by exercise, and entangled the question in precedents. James Madison
    Live as free people, yet without employing your freedom as a pretext for wickedness; but live at all times as servants of God.
    1 Peter 2:16

  2. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by revelarts View Post
    Several Senators and congress people HAVE tried to Charge many presidents with a war crimes,
    So Presidents can be impeached for sex in the oval office and/or lying, but no traction can be gained in congress for war crimes? Can you post the bills that were sponsored in congress (links) that also include the voting?
    Quote Originally Posted by logroller View Post
    fair enough; but didn't Obama overstay the 60 days?
    The Obama administration argued that the WPR didn't apply to their actions. Shocker, right? He claimed leadership was transferred to NATO within the 60 days and therefore the WPR no longer mattered. I think it should be a "boots on the ground" decision. If boots are on the ground, you need permission past 90 days. If not, he's within his powers as CIC and POTUS. Btw, Rev, I don't need war crime charges back to George Washington - Bush the 1st, Clinton, Bush II and Obama would suffice...
    “You know the world is going crazy when the best rapper is a white guy, the best golfer is a black guy, the tallest guy in the NBA is Chinese, the Swiss hold the America's Cup, France is accusing the U.S. of arrogance, Germany doesn't want to go to war, and the three most powerful men in America are named "Bush", "Dick", and "Colin." Need I say more?” - Chris Rock

  3. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by jimnyc View Post
    So Presidents can be impeached for sex in the oval office and/or lying, but no traction can be gained in congress for war crimes? Can you post the bills that were sponsored in congress (links) that also include the voting?
    how many will it take for you to agree with the point Jim?
    hmm?

    Bush Had a bill of impeachment against him for war Crimes while he was in office put up by Dennis Kucinch, He read each Count out on the floor but your good buddy Pelosi and other democrats said they didn't think it was a good idea at the time.

    Ron Paul On impeaching Clinton over Sudan Bombing 1998
    It is proper to take alarm at the first experiment on our liberties. The freeman of America did not wait till usurped power had strengthened itself by exercise, and entangled the question in precedents. James Madison
    Live as free people, yet without employing your freedom as a pretext for wickedness; but live at all times as servants of God.
    1 Peter 2:16

  4. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by revelarts View Post
    how many will it take for you to agree with the point Jim?
    hmm?

    Bush Had a bill of impeachment against him for war Crimes while he was in office put up by Dennis Kucinch, He read each Count out on the floor but your good buddy Pelosi and other democrats said they didn't think it was a good idea at the time.

    Ron Paul On impeaching Clinton over Sudan Bombing 1998
    Not watching Youtube, Rev - just please post the bills in congress with the vote tallies, this way I can read the context and who voted. Surely you can find actual bills instead of youtube videos.

    I'm looking around through past congresses, and all I'm finding is a decent amount of "brave talk" from nutters Ron Paul and Dennis Kucinich. I can't find any bills at all and certainly nothing at all that could grow legs. If there was sufficient evidence, EITHER side would LOVE to charge an opposing president with war crimes. Neither side has even found enough evidence to move forward let alone garner enough votes. Nutter talk, and doesn't surprise me that your info comes from "The Great Strategist".
    “You know the world is going crazy when the best rapper is a white guy, the best golfer is a black guy, the tallest guy in the NBA is Chinese, the Swiss hold the America's Cup, France is accusing the U.S. of arrogance, Germany doesn't want to go to war, and the three most powerful men in America are named "Bush", "Dick", and "Colin." Need I say more?” - Chris Rock

  5. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by jimnyc View Post
    I'm looking around through past congresses, and all I'm finding is a decent amount of "brave talk" from nutters Ron Paul and Dennis Kucinich. I can't find any bills at all and certainly nothing at all that could grow legs. If there was sufficient evidence, EITHER side would LOVE to charge an opposing president with war crimes. Neither side has even found enough evidence to move forward let alone garner enough votes. Nutter talk, and doesn't surprise me that your info comes from "The Great Strategist".
    Just as I thought, I give you 2 off the top of my head mention how Pelosi declined to join in on one agaist Bush and you dimiss the congressmen as "nutters" and cover your ears and mumble over Pelosi's not taking her shot. look Jim Believe your own fantasies about gov't power and CiC's "constitutional" power to declare war without congress, and how partisan politics works don't let me disturb your world.
    It is proper to take alarm at the first experiment on our liberties. The freeman of America did not wait till usurped power had strengthened itself by exercise, and entangled the question in precedents. James Madison
    Live as free people, yet without employing your freedom as a pretext for wickedness; but live at all times as servants of God.
    1 Peter 2:16

  6. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by revelarts View Post
    Just as I thought, I give you 2 off the top of my head mention how Pelosi declined to join in on one agaist Bush and you dimiss the congressmen as "nutters" and cover your ears and mumble over Pelosi's not taking her shot. look Jim Believe your own fantasies about gov't power and CiC's "constitutional" power to declare war without congress, and how partisan politics works don't let me disturb your world.
    Can you please link me to the thread where you posted the bills accusing the presidents I named with war crimes? Off the top of YOUR head doesn't cut it for me. I'd really like to read the text of the bills, and the voting, more specifically who voted for what. It was you that made the claim about these war crimes - I just want to read the text of the bills. That's not a fantasy, it's called facts and due diligence before I go further with the discussion. Admittedly, I can't find what it is I'm looking for, call me dense if you will, but I figured since you made the claims that I would read what it is you are basing your comments on.

    Quote Originally Posted by revelarts View Post
    Ron Paul On impeaching Clinton over Sudan Bombing 1998
    Rev, I decided to give your video a chance, and that was a mistake. The "impeachment" in this video is in reference to Clinton being impeached for the reasons he was. Paul rants throughout about Sudan, but I see no "bill" that he sponsored or submitted, just a press conference of sorts. It's hard to tell what it is, as it's cut and edited so much and so often that it's hard to keep up with specifically what he's discussing.

    That, and just a mention alone of Kucinich, but no bill.

    I want to read the text of these bills, and find out why no one in congress would support it. If it's as clear cut as you make it out to be, I'm wondering why one party wouldn't vote to impeach the other parties president. The only logical reason I can think of that this would happen, that both parties basically ignoring it, would be if the bill itself was total horseshit and wouldn't pass muster from grammar school judges. I'm leaning towards the latter, but still willing to read the text and grab a better idea as to why the actual bills were voted against.
    “You know the world is going crazy when the best rapper is a white guy, the best golfer is a black guy, the tallest guy in the NBA is Chinese, the Swiss hold the America's Cup, France is accusing the U.S. of arrogance, Germany doesn't want to go to war, and the three most powerful men in America are named "Bush", "Dick", and "Colin." Need I say more?” - Chris Rock

  7. #22
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    Never said you were dumb, willfully blind , hard headed maybe but not dumb. Jim, you've already called Kucinich a Nutter, doesn't give one the impression your being objective. I'd guess what ever he writes you won't agree with and will dismiss. As you have when I've wasted my time posting long list of Military, CIA, DIA, and executive branch personnel and testimony about Iraq which you dismiss by saying things LIKE "they want to sell a book" so they are not credible. Or "why didn't they say that before" or "they are democrats" or they are "out in left field politically" or "Why didn't congress do something..." If not those exact words that's the jist i got. All of which, at best just raise the bar of evidence to an impossible level, but never address the illegal activity. You already said that the Prez pretty much has the right to declare war BY HIMSELF and they've done it 190+ times therefore it"s Legal. And unless someone challenges the legality then NO MATTER what the Constitution says the fact that they've gotten away with it trumps the constitution. Except, they have been challenged, but now you want to see if you agree with the challenge, well I'd guess you will not. And if you did, I ask you again, would you change your position. yes or no? it's a simply question. I don't know you but I'd guess that you'd just raise the bar Again. And Asked that the impeachment succeed. Since they didn't well It's means that the prez is Not breaking the law because he got away with it. over and over. your win, if that's your stand. But it's EXTREMELY clear that the law and the intent of the constitution was to have the war making power rest in the congress, there's NO ambiguity or question about that. All one has to do is read the constitution and the founder on the war powers and if you'd like even the war powers act. 190+ times or a million times it's still illegal. but here's the kucinich bill H.Res.1258 - Impeaching George W. Bush, President of the United States, of high crimes and misdemeanors. by the way have been are lawsuits against presidents over this issue as well, but fight city hall you don't get far.
    It is proper to take alarm at the first experiment on our liberties. The freeman of America did not wait till usurped power had strengthened itself by exercise, and entangled the question in precedents. James Madison
    Live as free people, yet without employing your freedom as a pretext for wickedness; but live at all times as servants of God.
    1 Peter 2:16

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    So rather than just supply the bills, and lets all take a peek at the text of the bills, and see if everyone agrees if they should or shouldn't have went forward, and why or why not - you choose to go off on a rant not so different than Paul or Kucinich.

    Bottom line is, there's not enough evidence to support an impeachment based on war crimes. Not for Bush I, Clinton, Bush II or Obama. The majority of either party would LOVE to vote on a bill to impeach someone from the other party, but only if the bill is sound and irrefutable. Don't blame me that entire congresses over several administrations disagree with your legal analysis on these issues.
    “You know the world is going crazy when the best rapper is a white guy, the best golfer is a black guy, the tallest guy in the NBA is Chinese, the Swiss hold the America's Cup, France is accusing the U.S. of arrogance, Germany doesn't want to go to war, and the three most powerful men in America are named "Bush", "Dick", and "Colin." Need I say more?” - Chris Rock

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    Quote Originally Posted by revelarts View Post
    Never said you were dumb, willfully blind , hard headed maybe but not dumb. Jim, you've already called Kucinich a Nutter, doesn't give one the impression your being objective. I'd guess what ever he writes you won't agree with and will dismiss. As you have when I've wasted my time posting long list of Military, CIA, DIA, and executive branch personnel and testimony about Iraq which you dismiss by saying things LIKE "they want to sell a book" so they are not credible. Or "why didn't they say that before" or "they are democrats" or they are "out in left field politically" or "Why didn't congress do something..." If not those exact words that's the jist i got. All of which, at best just raise the bar of evidence to an impossible level, but never address the illegal activity. You already said that the Prez pretty much has the right to declare war BY HIMSELF and they've done it 190+ times therefore it"s Legal. And unless someone challenges the legality then NO MATTER what the Constitution says the fact that they've gotten away with it trumps the constitution. Except, they have been challenged, but now you want to see if you agree with the challenge, well I'd guess you will not. And if you did, I ask you again, would you change your position. yes or no? it's a simply question. I don't know you but I'd guess that you'd just raise the bar Again. And Asked that the impeachment succeed. Since they didn't well It's means that the prez is Not breaking the law because he got away with it. over and over. your win, if that's your stand. But it's EXTREMELY clear that the law and the intent of the constitution was to have the war making power rest in the congress, there's NO ambiguity or question about that. All one has to do is read the constitution and the founder on the war powers and if you'd like even the war powers act. 190+ times or a million times it's still illegal. but here's the kucinich bill H.Res.1258 - Impeaching George W. Bush, President of the United States, of high crimes and misdemeanors. by the way have been are lawsuits against presidents over this issue as well, but fight city hall you don't get far.
    did you miss this part?
    It is proper to take alarm at the first experiment on our liberties. The freeman of America did not wait till usurped power had strengthened itself by exercise, and entangled the question in precedents. James Madison
    Live as free people, yet without employing your freedom as a pretext for wickedness; but live at all times as servants of God.
    1 Peter 2:16

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    Quote Originally Posted by revelarts View Post
    did you miss this part?
    Nope, doing searches now - I was looking for the texts of such bills, and a list of them - and links to the votes. From what I can find thus far, this was an introduction of a bill and it didn't go anywhere.

    Rev - reading through the text of the Kucinich bill, the bill is "High crimes and misdemeanors" - not war crimes, and has very little to do with starting an illegal war, or anything to do with the War Powers Resolution. I thought this started as "who" can start wars, whether the POTUS or along with congress, or international agencies... And then the question became whether it was legal for a president to do so without congressional approval. But this Kucinich bill is little to nothing to do with "authority" to have started war, or war crimes.
    “You know the world is going crazy when the best rapper is a white guy, the best golfer is a black guy, the tallest guy in the NBA is Chinese, the Swiss hold the America's Cup, France is accusing the U.S. of arrogance, Germany doesn't want to go to war, and the three most powerful men in America are named "Bush", "Dick", and "Colin." Need I say more?” - Chris Rock

  11. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by jimnyc View Post
    Rev - reading through the text of the Kucinich bill, the bill is "High crimes and misdemeanors" - not war crimes, and has very little to do with starting an illegal war, or anything to do with the War Powers Resolution. I thought this started as "who" can start wars, whether the POTUS or along with congress, or international agencies... And then the question became whether it was legal for a president to do so without congressional approval. But this Kucinich bill is little to nothing to do with "authority" to have started war, or war crimes.
    Articles VI and VII at directly.

    Article VI--Invading Iraq in Violation of the Requirements of H.J. Res. 114

    • In his conduct while President of the United States, George W. Bush, in violation of his constitutional oath to faithfully execute the office of President of the United States and, to the best of his ability, preserve, protect, and defend the Constitution of the United States, and in violation of his constitutional duty under article II, section 3 of the Constitution ‘to take care that the laws be faithfully executed’, exceeded his Constitutional authority to wage war by invading Iraq in 2003 without meeting the requirements of H.J. Res. 114, the ‘Authorization for Use of Military Force Against Iraq Resolution of 2002’ to wit:

      • (1) H.J. Res. 114 contains several Whereas clauses consistent with statements being made by the White House at the time regarding the threat from Iraq as evidenced by the following:

        • (A) H.J. Res. 114 states ‘Whereas Iraq both poses a continuing threat to the national security of the United States and international peace and security in the Persian Gulf region and remains in material and unacceptable breach of its international obligations by, among other things, continuing to possess and develop a significant chemical and biological weapons capability, actively seeking a nuclear weapons capability, and supporting and harboring terrorist organizations;’; and
          (B) H.J. Res. 114 states ‘Whereas members of Al Qaeda, an organization bearing responsibility for attacks on the United States, its citizens, and interests, including the attacks that occurred on September 11, 2001, are known to be in Iraq;’.

        (2) H.J. Res. 114 states that the President must provide a determination, the truthfulness of which is implied, that military force is necessary in order to use the authorization, as evidenced by the following:

        • (A) Section 3 of H.J. Res. 114 states:

      ‘(b) PRESIDENTIAL DETERMINATION- In connection with the exercise of the authority granted in subsection (a) to use force the President shall, prior to such exercise or as soon thereafter as may be feasible, but no later than 48 hours after exercising such authority, make available to the Speaker of the House of Representatives and the President pro tempore of the Senate his determination that--

      • ‘(1) reliance by the United States on further diplomatic or other peaceful means alone either (A) will not adequately protect the national security of the United States against the continuing threat posed by Iraq or (B) is not likely to lead to enforcement of all relevant United Nations Security Council resolutions regarding Iraq; and
        ‘(2) acting pursuant to this joint resolution is consistent with the United States and other countries continuing to take the necessary actions against international terrorist and terrorist organizations, including those nations, organizations, or persons who planned, authorized, committed, or aided the terrorist attacks that occurred on September 11, 2001.’.
        (3) On March 18, 2003, President George Bush sent a letter to Congress stating that he had made that determination as evidenced by the following:

        • (A) March 18th, 2003 Letter to Congress stating: ‘Consistent with section 3(b) of the Authorization for Use of Military Force Against Iraq Resolution of 2002 (Public Law 107-243), and based on information available to me, including that in the enclosed document, I determine that:

          • ‘(i) reliance by the United States on further diplomatic and other peaceful means alone will neither (A) adequately protect the national security of the United States against the continuing threat posed by Iraq nor (B) likely lead to enforcement of all relevant United Nations Security Council resolutions regarding Iraq; and
            ‘(ii) acting pursuant to the Constitution and Public Law 107-243 is consistent with the United States and other countries continuing to take the necessary actions against international terrorists and terrorist organizations, including those nations, organizations, or persons who planned, authorized, committed, or aided the terrorist attacks that occurred on September 11, 2001.’.

        (4) President George Bush knew that these statements were false as evidenced by:

        • (A) Information provided with articles I, II, III, IV, and V.
          (B) A statement by President George Bush in an interview with Tony Blair on January 31st, 2003: [WH]
          Reporter: ‘One question for you both. Do you believe that there is a link between Saddam Hussein, a direct link, and the men who attacked on September the 11th?’
          President Bush: ‘I can’t make that claim’.
          (C) An article on February 19th by Terrorism expert Rohan Gunaratna states ‘I could find no evidence of links between Iraq and Al Qaeda. The documentation and interviews indicated that Al Qaeda regarded Saddam, a secular leader, as an infidel.’. [International Herald Tribune]
          (D) According to a February 2nd, 2003 article in the New York Times: [NYT]
          At the Federal Bureau of Investigation, some investigators said they were baffled by the Bush administration’s insistence on a solid link between Iraq and Osama bin Laden’s network. ‘We’ve been looking at this hard for more than a year and you know what, we just don’t think it’s there’, a government official said.

        (5) Section 3C of H.J. Res 114 states that ‘Nothing in this joint resolution supersedes any requirement of the War Powers Resolution.’.
        (6) The War Powers Resolution Section 9(d)(1) states:

      ‘(d) Nothing in this joint resolution--

      • ‘(1) is intended to alter the constitutional authority of the Congress or of the President, or the provision of existing treaties; or’.
        (7) The United Nations Charter was an existing treaty and, as shown in article VIII, the invasion of Iraq violated that treaty.
        (8) President George Bush knowingly failed to meet the requirements of H.J. Res. 114 and violated the requirement of the War Powers Resolution and, thereby, invaded Iraq without the authority of Congress.
      In all of these actions and decisions, President George W. Bush has acted in a manner contrary to his trust as President and Commander in Chief, and subversive of constitutional government, to the prejudice of the cause of law and justice and to the manifest injury of the people of the United States. Wherefore, President George W. Bush, by such conduct, is guilty of an impeachable offense warranting removal from office.

    Article VII--Invading Iraq Absent a Declaration of War

    In his conduct while President of the United States, George W. Bush, in violation of his constitutional oath to faithfully execute the office of President of the United States and, to the best of his ability, preserve, protect, and defend the Constitution of the United States, and in violation of his constitutional duty under article II, section 3 of the Constitution ‘to take care that the laws be faithfully executed’, has launched a war against Iraq absent any congressional declaration of war or equivalent action.
    Article I, section 8, clause 11 (the War Powers Clause) makes clear that the United States Congress holds the exclusive power to decide whether or not to send the nation into war. ‘The Congress’, the War Powers Clause states, ‘shall have power . . . To declare war . . .’
    The October 2002 congressional resolution on Iraq did not constitute a declaration of war or equivalent action. The resolution stated: ‘The President is authorized to use the Armed Forces of the United States as he deems necessary and appropriate in order to (1) defend the national security of the United States against the continuing threat posed by Iraq; and (2) enforce all relevant United Nations Security Council resolutions regarding Iraq.’ The resolution unlawfully sought to delegate to the President the decision of whether or not to initiate a war against Iraq, based on whether he deemed it ‘necessary and appropriate.’ The Constitution does not allow Congress to delegate this exclusive power to the President, nor does it allow the President to seize this power.
    In March 2003, the President launched a war against Iraq without any constitutional authority.
    In all of these actions and decisions, President George W. Bush has acted in a manner contrary to his trust as President and Commander in Chief, and subversive of constitutional government, to the prejudice of the cause of law and justice and to the manifest injury of the people of the United States. Wherefore, President George W. Bush, by such conduct, is guilty of an impeachable offense warranting removal from office.
    It is proper to take alarm at the first experiment on our liberties. The freeman of America did not wait till usurped power had strengthened itself by exercise, and entangled the question in precedents. James Madison
    Live as free people, yet without employing your freedom as a pretext for wickedness; but live at all times as servants of God.
    1 Peter 2:16

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    We need to seriously get these people out of power and we need good honest people in charge instead.
    If we were as industrious to become good as to make ourselves great, we should become really great by being good, and the number of valuable men would be much increased; but it is a grand mistake to think of being great without goodness; and i pronounce it as certain that there was never yet a truly great man that was not at the same time truly virtuous." - Ben Franklin

    Imagine what good we can do if we all joined together, united as followers of Christ - M. Russell Ballard

  13. Thanks revelarts thanked this post
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    Seriously rev, great post. I did a search and came across what I believe demonstrates the 'logic' such bills must overcome

    http://impeach.wikia.com/wiki/House_Resolution_1258

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    ^Hall of fame lineup right there.
    "when socialism fails, blame capitalism and demand more socialism." - A friend
    "You know the difference between libs and right-wingers? Libs STFU when evidence refutes their false beliefs." - Another friend
    “Don't waste your time with explanations: people only hear what they want to hear.” - Paulo Coelho


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    Quote Originally Posted by jimnyc View Post
    ...If there was sufficient evidence, EITHER side would LOVE to charge an opposing president with war crimes. Neither side has even found enough evidence to move forward let alone garner enough votes. ...
    Quote Originally Posted by logroller View Post
    Seriously rev, great post. I did a search and came across what I believe demonstrates the 'logic' such bills must overcome

    http://impeach.wikia.com/wiki/House_Resolution_1258
    That and this type of thing
    JOY BEHAR: You’ve ruled against impeaching George Bush and Dick Cheney, and now Kucinich is trying to pass that. Why do you insist on not impeaching these people, so that the world and America can really see the crimes that they’ve committed?

    REP. NANCY PELOSI: Well, I think that it — I think it was important, when I became Speaker — and it’s, by the way, a very important position — President, Vice President, Speaker of the House — I saw it as my responsibility to try to bring a much divided country together to the extent that we could. I thought that impeachment would be divisive for the country.

    In terms of what we wanted — set out to do, we wanted to raise the minimum wage, give the biggest increase in veterans benefits to veterans in the seventy-seven-year history, then pass research for stem cell research, all of that. This week, we’re going to pass equal pay for equal work.....
    http://www.democracynow.org/2008/7/3...si_defends_her

    Kucinich announced his intention to seek Bush's impeachment Monday night, when he read the lengthy document into the record.
    House Speaker Nancy Pelosi has repeatedly said she would not support a resolution calling for Bush's impeachment, saying such a move was unlikely to succeed and would be divisive.
    http://articles.cnn.com/2008-06-11/p..._s=PM:POLITICS
    It is proper to take alarm at the first experiment on our liberties. The freeman of America did not wait till usurped power had strengthened itself by exercise, and entangled the question in precedents. James Madison
    Live as free people, yet without employing your freedom as a pretext for wickedness; but live at all times as servants of God.
    1 Peter 2:16

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