Objective learning, religious style.

[Wind Song]

And it takes TWO to get to the point of giving birth or terminating. I think there should be recourse for the man in the relationship. And no, not stamping on women or trumping men - just stating that as of right now men get screwed, excuse the pun. If the woman wants to terminate, the man has no say. If the woman wants to keep the baby, man has no say, but will be just as liable for 18yrs. I understand that it's the woman's body we're discussing, but both involved in creating life should have equal say.

Yes, I've heard that concern from men alot. It's not an equal say. When men start implanting uteruses inside themselves they get an equal say.

[tailfins]

Yes, I've heard that concern from men alot. It's not an equal say. When men start implanting uteruses inside themselves they get an equal say.

Don't sugar coat it: You mean ZERO say. My advice to men is that your only protection from having your child murdered is good screening techniques. Be careful with whom you associate. And women wonder why they have difficulty finding a good guy.

It's pervasive enough to merit a song:

[jimnyc]

Yes, I've heard that concern from men alot. It's not an equal say. When men start implanting uteruses inside themselves they get an equal say.

Both the man and woman had/have a responsibility when having sex. Just purely having an organ shouldn't negate what a man wants. A man can lose his child if the woman says so. IMO, the time to sort out who wants what, who is responsible for what, and what both want - is before having sex, or in a manner that could lead to pregnancy.

I know MANY guys who have had wives/girlfriends sneak off and get abortions without even discussing it with the man. Legal, but quite disgusting in my opinion.

[Wind Song]

Don't sugar coat it: You mean ZERO say. My advice to men is that your only protection from having your child murdered is good screening techniques. Be careful with whom you associate. And women wonder why they have difficulty finding a good guy.

It's pervasive enough to merit a song:

I wouldn't know. That's never something I've worried about.

It used to be men didn't give a shit if they knocked somebody up. They just cut and run.

[jimnyc]

It used to be men didn't give a shit if they knocked somebody up. They just cut and run.

Maybe a lot of it has to do with women making demands once pregnant, and taking away any rights that a man could have and any say in the process. While I do despise deadbeat dads - I do find it odd that so many women don't give a shit what a man wants when determining what to do with a pregnancy, but will then scream from the mountains about men having to pay.

And quite frankly, I think a woman who has an abortion without a mans say - THAT is cutting and running.

[Wind Song]

Maybe a lot of it has to do with women making demands once pregnant, and taking away any rights that a man could have and any say in the process. While I do despise deadbeat dads - I do find it odd that so many women don't give a shit what a man wants when determining what to do with a pregnancy, but will then scream from the mountains about men having to pay.

And quite frankly, I think a woman who has an abortion without a mans say - THAT is cutting and running.

Poor men. They have it so rough.

[jimnyc]

Poor men. They have it so rough.

Just because you think a man losing his child is funny, doesn't mean others do. You scoff at what I say about men, but are the first to complain about dead beat dads. The woman has the uterus, let her decide whether or not to carry a baby to term. The man has the bank account, let him decide if he would like to pay. I'm guessing you won't scoff at that idea though and will demand that the man pay.

[Wind Song]

Just because you think a man losing his child is funny, doesn't mean others do. You scoff at what I say about men, but are the first to complain about dead beat dads. The woman has the uterus, let her decide whether or not to carry a baby to term. The man has the bank account, let him decide if he would like to pay. I'm guessing you won't scoff at that idea though and will demand that the man pay.

1. I'm not complaining.

2. This isn't my personal issue.

3. The law isn't on your side.

4. You're whining.

[BDBoop]

I would have said "mother" however that would mean they delivered the baby plus there is usualy a father involved!!!!

Quit being obtuse you know EXACTLY what and who I was refering to.

I've been here I wanna say 20 minutes so please don't tell me I'm a mind-reader.

[jimnyc]

1. I'm not complaining.

2. This isn't my personal issue.

3. The law isn't on your side.

4. You're whining.

*sigh*. I tried having a typical debate with you and it appears you aren't capable. Whatever, I can find other topics and adults to discuss things with.

[Wind Song]

*sigh*. I tried having a typical debate with you and it appears you aren't capable. Whatever, I can find other topics and adults to discuss things with.

Fine with me.

[Wind Song]

*sigh*. I tried having a typical debate with you and it appears you aren't capable. Whatever, I can find other topics and adults to discuss things with.

OK Jim,

Go talk to the people who agree with your every view.

[BDBoop]

Carrying a fetus is in fact the raison d'etre for having a uterus in the first place. Having a uterus in one's body is hardly a reason to justify killing the very thing it exists to support.

That logic seems to go hand-in-hand with "and therefore, we should only be having sex in order to conceive."

[jimnyc]

OK Jim,

Go talk to the people who agree with your every view.

I certainly wouldn't want to debate something with people who only agree with me. But when someone has no debate, and says "poor men" and then starts into insulting lists ending with "you're just whining" - it's obvious they have little desire to debate and/or discuss the actual issue. Sometimes it's cool to get down in the mud with you and trade jabs, other times it's good to just leave you there oinking all by your lonesome.

[Wind Song]

The issue is CHOICE. It used to not be a choice for a woman. Now it is.