Uh Oh

[OCA]

Can someone show me where individuals who choose the homosexual lifestyle are at birth denied any rights guaranteed by the 14th amendment?

[Thunderknuckles]

I'm sure someone will point to the Equal Protection Clause. Other than that, I don't know.

[OCA]

I'm sure someone will point to the Equal Protection Clause. Other than that, I don't know.

Fact is they aren't, the equal protection clause does not apply to lifestyle choices.

[Thunderknuckles]

Fact is they aren't, the equal protection clause does not apply to lifestyle choices.

Isn't that the basis for the whole gay marriage debate?

[OCA]

Isn't that the basis for the whole gay marriage debate?

Yeppers, but the real issue is whether the clause applies to lifestyle choices you make that break already established laws.


If it applies to gays should it not also apply to polygamists? Marriage where 1 spouse is of age and the other isn't?

[Nell's Room]

Fact is they aren't, the equal protection clause does not apply to lifestyle choices.

It applies to your lifestyle choice doesn't it? If homosexuality is a lifestyle choice, it makes sense than heterosexuality is too.

[ConHog]

Can someone show me where individuals who choose the homosexual lifestyle are at birth denied any rights guaranteed by the 14th amendment?

Sure.

Marriage is a religious establishment , not a government establishment. Telling consenting adults they can't marry is a violation of their first amendment rights.

Yes, that includes homosexuals, and bigamists. It does not include children though because they legally can not consent.

/thread

[jimnyc]

Sure.

Marriage is a religious establishment , not a government establishment. Telling consenting adults they can't marry is a violation of their first amendment rights.

Yes, that includes homosexuals, and bigamists. It does not include children though because they legally can not consent.

/thread

So you're for making bigamy and polygamy legal, so long as it doesn't involve children?

[ConHog]

So you're for making bigamy and polygamy legal, so long as it doesn't involve children?

I'm for not giving a shit what other people's weirdo religions do as long as it doesn't affect anyone other than those who choose to particpate in it Jim. That's what I've been trying to tell you visa vie gay marriage.

Letting religion X call it marriage doesn't mean YOU have to accept it as marriage, and the government shouldn't recognize marriage at all. They should recognize a contract , and no I don't believe one guy should be able to have multiple wives and all their children on welfare either. That is another topic entirely.

[jimnyc]

I'm for not giving a shit what other people's weirdo religions do as long as it doesn't affect anyone other than those who choose to particpate in it Jim. That's what I've been trying to tell you visa vie gay marriage.

Letting religion X call it marriage doesn't mean YOU have to accept it as marriage, and the government shouldn't recognize marriage at all. They should recognize a contract , and no I don't believe one guy should be able to have multiple wives and all their children on welfare either. That is another topic entirely.

I'm all for "live and let live" too, but there's also a point where society says 'enough is enough' and does what is best for society as a whole. Saying, fuck it, and legalizing bigamy and polygamy would be dumb. But for the reasons given, one cannot effectively be for gay marriage and shoot down polygamists.

[ConHog]

I'm all for "live and let live" too, but there's also a point where society says 'enough is enough' and does what is best for society as a whole. Saying, fuck it, and legalizing bigamy and polygamy would be dumb. But for the reasons given, one cannot effectively be for gay marriage and shoot down polygamists.

Frankly I don't see how it would be detrimental to society, but the larger issue is that doesn't even matter. I can certainly make the case that allowing ALL citizen to vote is detrimental to society, and I think you'd agree with that? But the fact is detrimental or not, that is how our laws read.


We don't get to negate someone's religious rights simply because we don't like their behavior. But yes, if they are breaking the law then we can do so. And there is your difference if you're looking for one. Polygamy is illegal. Gay marriage is NOT. Even in states where gay marriages can't be performed no one is going to jail if they are in a gay marriage. One CAN however go to jail for polygamy. A slight, but real difference.

And of course OCA's ridiculous notion about children is and always will be illegal.

I think we can tract that even all the way back to Loving. The Court did not rule that anyone HAD to marry blacks and whites, they merely ruled that people couldn't be arrested for doing so.

I disagree with the gay lifestyle completely, but I agree with the COTUS even more. I don't want gays telling me that my religion is wrong, and I won't tell them they are wrong.

[Kathianne]

So you're for making bigamy and polygamy legal, so long as it doesn't involve children?

Probably. Along with restricting your 2nd amendment rights. He says he's 'conservative' though.

[ConHog]

Probably. Along with restricting your 2nd amendment rights. He says he's 'conservative' though.

I would argue that following the intent of the COTUS is VERY conservative, but that is a label others have used for me, I refer to myself as a Constitutionalist.

[Noir]

So you're for making bigamy and polygamy legal, so long as it doesn't involve children?

I've never seen what exactly is so wrong with Polygamy, i mean, if three consenting adults want to marry, thats considered illegal, but, say for example, a married man cheats on his wife with a mistress, that is legal? Why should the one that involves lying, hurt, and oath breaking be fine, while the other that is a foundation build on trust and love be deemed unacceptable?

[jimnyc]

I'm not debating the legalities with either of you. This is kinda one of those things that either you think is ok, not ok, or should be ok only because it would be wrong not do. Me, just don't want no part of it. I'm of the belief that kids are best with a mother and a father - not 2 fathers, not 2 mothers, not 1 father and 4 mothers. We all have our opinions, and I'm just of the opinion that these behaviors are the beginning of letting society go further and further down the shithole. If you guys, and others, think there is no reason to prevent this stuff in society, I sure won't be out there with a taser trying to stop you, but I sure as hell won't be one of those trying to push for it and accept it and demand they have rights.