Joe Paterno and Penn State

[jimnyc]

The investigation into Penn State's culpability in the Jerry Sandusky case has been finalized. It took me a day to read it in it's entirety, as it's very long and very thorough. I need to admit I was wrong about my initial thoughts on the case. It would appear that Joe helped protect Sandusky to an extent. I believe he had a say as to whether or not they handled the case from within, or reported to outside authorities. He made a horrible decision that ultimately allowed Sandusky to commit unspeakable acts down the road. It wasn't his legal duty was my initial defense. But while that may be true, when anyone asked him for guidance on this, he should have, without thought, told them the right thing to do was contact the appropriate authorities. I'm saddened to learn that he thought otherwise. Joe chose friendship and football over protecting children. One mistake in 50+ years of football, and it's a HUGE one. I still love Paterno, and always will. He still holds every major coaching record. IMO, this shouldn't affect his status as a coach of Penn State football. But unfortunately for Joe, this forever changes how he will be looked at and remembered, and perhaps deservedly so. He fucked up, no 2 ways about it. Him being an idol of mine, I searched for many ways to figure this out and not hold him responsible, but I can't find a way past it. I can forgive him as I believe his intentions were from the heart, however ill they were.

[logroller]

The investigation into Penn State's culpability in the Jerry Sandusky case has been finalized. It took me a day to read it in it's entirety, as it's very long and very thorough. I need to admit I was wrong about my initial thoughts on the case. It would appear that Joe helped protect Sandusky to an extent. I believe he had a say as to whether or not they handled the case from within, or reported to outside authorities. He made a horrible decision that ultimately allowed Sandusky to commit unspeakable acts down the road. It wasn't his legal duty was my initial defense. But while that may be true, when anyone asked him for guidance on this, he should have, without thought, told them the right thing to do was contact the appropriate authorities. I'm saddened to learn that he thought otherwise. Joe chose friendship and football over protecting children. One mistake in 50+ years of football, and it's a HUGE one. I still love Paterno, and always will. He still holds every major coaching record. IMO, this shouldn't affect his status as a coach of Penn State football. But unfortunately for Joe, this forever changes how he will be looked at and remembered, and perhaps deservedly so. He fucked up, no 2 ways about it. Him being an idol of mine, I searched for many ways to figure this out and not hold him responsible, but I can't find a way past it. I can forgive him as I believe his intentions were from the heart, however ill they were.

Jim, it takes a big man to admit when he was wrong, a very big man...a much bigger man, in fact, than a man who says I told you so.

[jimnyc]

Jim, it takes a big man to admit when he was wrong, a very big man...a much bigger man, in fact, than a man who says I told you so.

Why you lousy, no good, jump on a man while he's down, opportunistic bastard!

Yeah, it was denial. When it's a hero of sorts, nothing short of direct proof will satisfy. I wasn't going to believe rumors, guesses or possibilities. I'm still left guessing, and would love to ask Joe, why? Why would you delay or not want to report a man that did this?

Makes me wonder though, that age old question about whether or not you would rat out on a family member of you found out they were involved in a heinous crime. The Unabomber for example, I believe it was his own brother that is what finally busted him. What if it was a family member and you found out they were involved similarly as Sandusky? Do you report instantly? Do you try to help them? Do you talk to them? How does one handle something like this if it were a brother/brother situation?

[logroller]

Why you lousy, no good, jump on a man while he's down, opportunistic bastard!

Yeah, it was denial. When it's a hero of sorts, nothing short of direct proof will satisfy. I wasn't going to believe rumors, guesses or possibilities. I'm still left guessing, and would love to ask Joe, why? Why would you delay or not want to report a man that did this?

Makes me wonder though, that age old question about whether or not you would rat out on a family member of you found out they were involved in a heinous crime. The Unabomber for example, I believe it was his own brother that is what finally busted him. What if it was a family member and you found out they were involved similarly as Sandusky? Do you report instantly? Do you try to help them? Do you talk to them? How does one handle something like this if it were a brother/brother situation?

Sheesh. That's heavy. I suppose it's a question of duty. In cases where those duties conflict, it is necessary to rank those duties. This is often described as ethical pluralism, a subset of deotologucal ethics. There's a 20th century philosopher by the name of WD Ross who addressed what he called prima facie duties; placing Non-maleficience (do no harm) as most dutiful. For example, a doctor or priest has a duty of fidelity, or confidence; one which recognized not only professionally and ethically, but legally; so that if you confide in him about something heinous he is dutifully bound to keep that confidential. However, if he believes you will do such a thing again, causing harm to another or yourself, he is ethically bound to breach that duty of fidelity because the duty to (do no harm) is a greater duty. So in the case of David kaczynsky, there was high likelihood that another bombing would occur, thus justifying his breach of trust.

[logroller]

Sheesh. That's heavy. I suppose it's a question of duty. In cases where those duties conflict, it is necessary to rank those duties. This is often described as ethical pluralism, a subset of deotologucal ethics. There's a 20th century philosopher by the name of WD Ross who addressed what he called prima facie duties; placing Non-maleficience (do no harm) as most dutiful. For example, a doctor or priest has a duty of fidelity, or confidence; one which recognized not only professionally and ethically, but legally; so that if you confide in him about something heinous he is dutifully bound to keep that confidential. However, if he believes you will do such a thing again, causing harm to another or yourself, he is ethically bound to breach that duty of fidelity because the duty to (do no harm) is a greater duty. So in the case of David kaczynsky, there was high likelihood that another bombing would occur, thus justifying his breach of trust.

Edit: Deontological ethics

[Kathianne]

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/ncaa-hi...80--ncaaf.html

INDIANAPOLIS (AP) -- NCAA hits Penn State football with $60 million fine, vacates Paterno's wins from 1998-2011.

[jimnyc]

Wow, this is some serious penalties handed down:

$60 million fine
4 year ban from post season (trust me, that's HUGE, and likely larger in the long run than the fine)
All wins vacated from 1998-2011

I do have a little bit of an issue with the last one. None of this was "football related". The team wasn't involved. I understand JoePa needs to suffer from his actions, but taking away things from on the field simply doesn't make sense and does nothing for those ultimately victimized. Hell, I might even argue jail time for even JoePa had he still been alive, but I think this punishment is a little misguided.

I hope earlier rumors of allowing players to go elsewhere with scholarships remaining in effect comes to fruition. These students came to PSU in good faith and did nothing wrong.

[jimnyc]

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/ncaa-hi...80--ncaaf.html

Damnit, you beat me! LOL

[Kathianne]

More details:

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/colle...ons/56427630/1

...the school will be forced to cut 10 scholarships for this season and 20 scholarships for the following four years.

The move essentially bumps Penn State down to the scholarship levels of schools at the lower Football Championship Subdivision.


The school will be forced to vacate all wins from 1998-2011, a total of 112 victories, and serve five years of probation.


The loss of victories means Joe Paterno is no longer college football's winningest coach. He was fired in November during the scandal after 409 wins at the school.

Because of the length of the punishment, all current Penn State players and incoming freshman will be free to transfer to another school without penalty.


The totality of the sanctions will have a drastic impact on the school's ability to compete in football the rest of the decade...

[jimnyc]

I made my comments and thoughts about JoePa and his turning his back long before this came down, and I won't retract them. But, he's still the coach with the most wins, hands down. Just like everyone who knows anything about baseball knows about Pete Rose's accomplishments, records and the fact that he is a hall of famer, even though he is banished because of gambling.

Making believe the on field accomplishments never happened won't help anyone. This stuff had nothing to do with what took place on the field. History and record books will now show asterisks and a reduction of wins, but everyone knows Joe won those games through a 61yr career.

Yes, he should be held in contempt for his looking the other way. If alive, he should even be punished. But the punishments being given out help no one that was victimized and don't even punish for the appropriate actions.

The man made a monumental mistake. But he wasn't the abuser. He wasn't the one who was a mandatory reporter. But he's the one being punished the most. They'll continue to do so as well as it's easier to push the blame on a man that is now gone.

[WiccanLiberal]

For all those holding to any admiration for Mr. Paterno, he did have a legal obligation to report the abuse and could have been charged with neglecting to do so. Every state has laws regarding who is a "mandatory reporter". Pennsylvania law is similar to NY law in that it requires doctors, nurses, therapists, teachers and school administrators to report in writing and with their name and contact information included and mandates penalties if it is later discovered that such person was aware of the abuse and did not do so. While the school was not educating young children, they were present for university sanctioned activities which means the administration had responsibility for them. In addition to the current mess they have going on, I am surprised the state hasn't brought such charges against every member of the administration involved.

[gabosaurus]

The NCAA was correct is penalizing the football program while sparing the rest of the university.
Paterno is dead and most of the administrators involved have lost their jobs. The football program itself had to be spared in order to keep the remainder of the school and the community intact. You would be surprised at how many other programs depend of revenue raised by football.

At the same time, I am wondering how many other Division I football programs are shrugging their shoulders and getting back to business. The media contains almost daily references to football and basketball players who receive preferential treatment so as not to endanger their status as cash cows.

[jimnyc]

For all those holding to any admiration for Mr. Paterno, he did have a legal obligation to report the abuse and could have been charged with neglecting to do so. Every state has laws regarding who is a "mandatory reporter". Pennsylvania law is similar to NY law in that it requires doctors, nurses, therapists, teachers and school administrators to report in writing and with their name and contact information included and mandates penalties if it is later discovered that such person was aware of the abuse and did not do so. While the school was not educating young children, they were present for university sanctioned activities which means the administration had responsibility for them. In addition to the current mess they have going on, I am surprised the state hasn't brought such charges against every member of the administration involved.

Joe had no legal obligation as he was not a mandatory reporter and was not and never was an administrator of any type for the school. They placed charges against those that were, and even made it clear that no charges would be being brought forth against Joe for exactly that reason. His superiors, the athletic director and school president, were the mandatory reporters in this instance.

[WiccanLiberal]

Respectfully I have to disagree. I think the only reason they didn't was that he was already ill and they understood what public opinion was about him. He was in the educational chain of command at that university. The statute reads "Persons required to report include, but are not limited to:
Licensed physicians, osteopaths, medical examiners, coroners, funeral directors, dentists, optometrists, chiropractors, podiatrists, interns, nurses, or hospital personnel
Christian Science practitioners or members of the clergy
School administrators, teachers, school nurses, social services workers, daycare center workers, or any other child care or foster care workers
Mental health professionals
Peace officers or law enforcement officials'" The italics are mine.

[jimnyc]

Respectfully I have to disagree. I think the only reason they didn't was that he was already ill and they understood what public opinion was about him. He was in the educational chain of command at that university. The statute reads "Persons required to report include, but are not limited to:
Licensed physicians, osteopaths, medical examiners, coroners, funeral directors, dentists, optometrists, chiropractors, podiatrists, interns, nurses, or hospital personnel
Christian Science practitioners or members of the clergy
School administrators, teachers, school nurses, social services workers, daycare center workers, or any other child care or foster care workers
Mental health professionals
Peace officers or law enforcement officials'" The italics are mine.

You can disagree as you like, but the Pa. State Police and all investigators involved agreed, Gary Schulz and Tim Curley were charged with failure to report suspected child abuse. No charges were given to Paterno when this first came out and they all said the same thing - that while he may have had a moral obligation, he had no legal obligation.

He was a "coach" and had no teaching authority or administration authority. This has all been very well covered since the news first came out.