Results 1 to 11 of 11
  1. #1
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    San Diego, CA
    Posts
    7,396
    Thanks (Given)
    11
    Thanks (Received)
    1501
    Likes (Given)
    5
    Likes (Received)
    47
    Piss Off (Given)
    0
    Piss Off (Received)
    0
    Mentioned
    7 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    2067947

    Default Disgruntled loner attempts mass murder in Colorado - but is stopped (Flashback)

    What a difference it can make, when concealed carry is allowed inside a public place, and a longtime law-abiding patron actually brings her gun... just in case.

    Two dead at her facility instead of twelve... in December 2007.

    --------------------------------------------------

    http://articles.latimes.com/2007/dec...ion/na-shoot11

    Guard saved untold lives, officials say

    THE NATION
    She stopped gunman Matthew Murray, who killed four in a rampage at two Colorado religious facilities.
    December 11, 2007
    Nicholas Riccardi and DeeDee Correll
    Times Staff Writers

    COLORADO SPRINGS, COLO. — The gunshots were so loud that Jeanne Assam thought the shooter was already in the building.

    A former police officer, Assam, 42, was on security duty Sunday morning at New Life Church here. Hours earlier, a 24-year-old who had been rejected from a missionary school in a Denver suburb had shot and killed two staffers there. Now he was spraying New Life's parking lot with gunfire and pushing through the doors to the sanctuary.

    Assam hid and inched toward the gunman, Matthew Murray, as dozens of terrified worshipers fled. She waited until he got close enough, revealed herself, aimed her pistol and fired. Murray dropped to the ground. He was carrying an assault rifle, two pistols and a backpack holding more than 1,000 rounds of ammunition.

    "I just prayed to the Holy Spirit to guide me," Assam said at a packed news conference Monday. "I give the credit to God. This has got to be God, because of the firepower he had versus what I have."

    Authorities on Monday said Assam saved untold lives as they described how Murray, the home-schooled son of a prominent neurologist, terrorized two religious facilities during a harrowing 12-hour rampage.

    Police said it was unclear whether Assam's shots killed Murray or whether the gunman, after being wounded, took his own life.

    Murray killed two teenage sisters at New Life Church on Sunday afternoon and wounded their father and two other worshipers. The gunman had been at large since 12:30 a.m., when he attacked the Youth With a Mission school in Arvada.

    Phil Abeyta, a pastor who is Murray's uncle, spoke to reporters outside the school Monday afternoon.

    "Our family can't express the magnitude of our grief for the victims and families," Abeyta said tearfully. "On behalf of our family, we ask for forgiveness. We can't understand why this has happened."

    At Abeyta's side was Peter Warren, the school's director. Warren said that when Murray came to the school early Sunday asking to stay the night, staff members did not recognize him.After Murray was identified by police, the school realized he had attended its training program in 2002. The Arvada school is a branch of an international missionary program that trains thousands annually.

    Warren said school officials refused to assign Murray to a mission because of an unspecified health problem that could make such work unsafe. Warren would not elaborate, and he and Abeyta left without taking questions.

    Police said it appeared Murray acted alone, although they were still investigating whether he had help getting from Arvada to Colorado Springs.

    In court papers, police said Murray had written threatening letters to the school and spent many hours a day on the Internet as a computer student, the Gazette of Colorado Springs reported.

    He lived at home with his 21-year-old brother and his parents in a two-story brick home in an affluent neighborhood in Englewood, a suburb at the southern end of Denver's sprawl. His father, Ronald Murray, is a neurologist who specializes in treating multiple sclerosis patients.

    Colorado Springs Police Sgt. Jeff Jensen said it was too early to know what precisely motivated Matthew Murray. "This tragedy is just a little over 24 hours old and we're still in the process of gathering information," he said at an afternoon news conference.

    It also was unclear why Murray traveled the roughly 75 miles from the missionary school in Arvada to New Life Church, which has a Youth With a Mission branch office. New Life achieved notoriety last year when its founder, Ted Haggard, was accused by a former gay prostitute of trading drugs and sex.

    Murray apparently left smoke grenades as distractions at the western and southeastern entrances to New Life. Then he moved to the eastern parking lot and opened fire, hitting the Works family of Denver.

    Stephanie Works, 18, died at the scene; her sister Rachel, 16, died in a hospital hours later. Their father, David, 51, was wounded in the groin and abdomen and was in fair condition.

    Jensen said it was unknown whether Murray targeted the Works girls, who had reportedly gone on a Youth With a Mission trip overseas and frequented the group's Arvada branch.

    Early Sunday morning, New Life's security director had warned Senior Pastor Brady Boyd about the missionary school attacks and recommended bolstering the church campus' volunteer contingent of guards. At her home, Assam read online about the shooting and felt a chill.

    A worshiper at the church, she also protects fellow parishioners and Boyd. She was working her regular shift Sunday afternoon. There were about 7,000 people on campus as the midday service wound to a close around 1:10 p.m. and Murray opened fire.

    "I heard shots fired. There was chaos, there were a lot of people in the church," Assam said. "The shots were so loud I thought he was inside. . . . It seemed like the halls cleared out; I saw him coming through the doors."

    Assam said she hid until he came close. "I came out of cover, identified myself and took him down," she said. "I just knew I was not going to wait for him to do any more damage."

    She said she prayed before opening fire. "My hand wasn't even shaking," she said. "It seemed like it was me, the gunman and God."

    Wiry, with wavy blond hair and a dazed expression that came from not sleeping for 24 hours, Assam would not identify the law enforcement agency she used to work for, though she said she "loved being a police officer."

    The Rev. Boyd, who introduced Assam, stressed that all church guards were volunteers who worshiped at the church and were legally allowed to carry guns.

    "Given the events of the past 24 hours, you understand why there is a need to provide security to the people who worship there," Boyd said.
    "The social contract exists so that everyone doesn’t have to squat in the dust holding a spear to protect his woman and his meat all day every day. It does not exist so that the government can take your spear, your meat, and your woman because it knows better what to do with them." - Instapundit.com

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    San Dimas, California
    Posts
    2,025
    Thanks (Given)
    30
    Thanks (Received)
    236
    Likes (Given)
    0
    Likes (Received)
    1
    Piss Off (Given)
    0
    Piss Off (Received)
    0
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    703545

    Default

    " Murray, the home-schooled son of a prominent neurologist, "

    Hmm, wasn't James Holmes studying neuroscience?

    But yeah, legally armed citizens are a good thing.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Virginia, U.S.A.
    Posts
    14,119
    Thanks (Given)
    4828
    Thanks (Received)
    4671
    Likes (Given)
    2557
    Likes (Received)
    1592
    Piss Off (Given)
    0
    Piss Off (Received)
    3
    Mentioned
    126 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    14075393

    Default

    Arm populace is a good thing but I think the batman shooter was trying to foil any conceal carry or armed security with the smoke bomb before shooting. And it was in a darkened place all ready, it would have made it difficult to make clean shot.
    It is proper to take alarm at the first experiment on our liberties. The freeman of America did not wait till usurped power had strengthened itself by exercise, and entangled the question in precedents. James Madison
    Live as free people, yet without employing your freedom as a pretext for wickedness; but live at all times as servants of God.
    1 Peter 2:16

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    The SOUTH!!!
    Posts
    2,054
    Thanks (Given)
    2141
    Thanks (Received)
    2059
    Likes (Given)
    0
    Likes (Received)
    1
    Piss Off (Given)
    0
    Piss Off (Received)
    0
    Mentioned
    3 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    2786510

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by revelarts View Post
    Arm populace is a good thing but I think the batman shooter was trying to foil any conceal carry or armed security with the smoke bomb before shooting. And it was in a darkened place all ready, it would have made it difficult to make clean shot.

    Not for the guy almost directly under the shooter. He was so close that he felt the emptied cartriges hitting him in the head and on his back. Accuracy counts...but at that range, not so much! I sure hope we find out more about this guy so that the liberals will stop calling this something other than what it obviously was with the bus bomber this week. I don't mind being RIGHT all the time but it would be nice if the leftist got it right every once in a while. They would if they'd simply open their eyes or quit smokin' that junk.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    USA, Southern
    Posts
    27,683
    Thanks (Given)
    32441
    Thanks (Received)
    17532
    Likes (Given)
    3631
    Likes (Received)
    3156
    Piss Off (Given)
    21
    Piss Off (Received)
    2
    Mentioned
    58 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    21475258

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by revelarts View Post
    Arm populace is a good thing but I think the batman shooter was trying to foil any conceal carry or armed security with the smoke bomb before shooting. And it was in a darkened place all ready, it would have made it difficult to make clean shot.
    When you can shoot a coon out of a tall tree on a cloudy night with the dogs barking crazy and the wind blowing too hard taking that shot in the dark theater wouldnt be so hard. One could just shoot a few inches lower than his gun shot flashes and tag him in the chest. Im fairly sure that I could have tagged his sorry azz at even 40 or 50 feet away. Guy is an obvious loon! Colored his hair red and called himself the Joker! Has to be a real nutcase . Guy called into a radio station today and stated that the shooter was an occupy Denver protester a while back. That would fit in alright if it is true.-Tyr
    18 U.S. Code § 2381-Treason Whoever, owing allegiance to the United States, levies war against them or adheres to their enemies, giving them aid and comfort within the United States or elsewhere, is guilty of treason and shall suffer death, or shall be imprisoned not less than five years and fined under this title but not less than $10,000; and shall be incapable of holding any office under the United States.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Arizona
    Posts
    47,716
    Thanks (Given)
    23960
    Thanks (Received)
    17486
    Likes (Given)
    9714
    Likes (Received)
    6168
    Piss Off (Given)
    85
    Piss Off (Received)
    10
    Mentioned
    204 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    21475525

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Thunderknuckles View Post
    " Murray, the home-schooled son of a prominent neurologist, "

    Hmm, wasn't James Holmes studying neuroscience?

    But yeah, legally armed citizens are a good thing.
    I agree. From all studies I've read by reputable universities and organizations, states with carry laws have lower stats than those with the strictest gun control laws. I.e., see Chicago, Detroit, Washington D.C.

    Today's shooting though, was very different. Folks carrying guns when the shooter was basically covered head to foot in armor and ballistic wear, all black, in darkened theater, would unlikely have been effective. This was one of the few exceptions that i can think of where to pull a gun in the chaos that had to be unfolding, would probably have caused more harm than good. It really was amazing that the police did get on seen as quickly as they did. If they'd been a few minutes more, I can't imagine what would have been the toll.


    "The government is a child that has found their parents credit card, and spends knowing that they never have to reconcile the bill with their own money"-Shannon Churchill


  7. #7
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Posts
    16,760
    Thanks (Given)
    94
    Thanks (Received)
    1751
    Likes (Given)
    7
    Likes (Received)
    165
    Piss Off (Given)
    0
    Piss Off (Received)
    13
    Mentioned
    54 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    9306081

    Default

    Many eyewitness accounts state that the gunman suddenly quit firing and walked out. Even though he was heavily armed and obviously had more guns and ammunition. The gunman then quietly surrendered to police and warned them that his apartment was booby trapped.

    A neighbor of the gunman stated that he left very loud techno music playing in apartment when he left for the theater.
    Does this perhaps mean that techno music caused him to flip out? Can we ban techno music because of it?

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    In a house; two stories, suburban
    Posts
    7,471
    Thanks (Given)
    214
    Thanks (Received)
    264
    Likes (Given)
    3
    Likes (Received)
    7
    Piss Off (Given)
    0
    Piss Off (Received)
    0
    Mentioned
    2 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    2395475

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by gabosaurus View Post
    Many eyewitness accounts state that the gunman suddenly quit firing and walked out. Even though he was heavily armed and obviously had more guns and ammunition. The gunman then quietly surrendered to police and warned them that his apartment was booby trapped.

    A neighbor of the gunman stated that he left very loud techno music playing in apartment when he left for the theater.
    Does this perhaps mean that techno music caused him to flip out? Can we ban techno music because of it?
    Oh see, now I came to the conclusion that the techno music was the boobytrap.
    He who learns must suffer. And even in our sleep pain that cannot forget falls drop by drop upon the heart, and in our own despair, against our will, comes wisdom to us by the awful grace of God.AeschylusRead more at http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/qu...zeMUwcpY1Io.99

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Posts
    9,002
    Thanks (Given)
    36
    Thanks (Received)
    209
    Likes (Given)
    20
    Likes (Received)
    101
    Piss Off (Given)
    0
    Piss Off (Received)
    0
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    1187319

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Thunderknuckles View Post
    " Murray, the home-schooled son of a prominent neurologist, "

    Hmm, wasn't James Holmes studying neuroscience?

    But yeah, legally armed citizens are a good thing.
    guns don't kill people, neurologists kill people.....
    ...full immersion.....

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    O-hi-o
    Posts
    12,192
    Thanks (Given)
    8017
    Thanks (Received)
    1650
    Likes (Given)
    0
    Likes (Received)
    7
    Piss Off (Given)
    0
    Piss Off (Received)
    0
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    3656129

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Kathianne View Post
    I agree. From all studies I've read by reputable universities and organizations, states with carry laws have lower stats than those with the strictest gun control laws. I.e., see Chicago, Detroit, Washington D.C.

    Today's shooting though, was very different. Folks carrying guns when the shooter was basically covered head to foot in armor and ballistic wear, all black, in darkened theater, would unlikely have been effective. This was one of the few exceptions that i can think of where to pull a gun in the chaos that had to be unfolding, would probably have caused more harm than good. It really was amazing that the police did get on seen as quickly as they did. If they'd been a few minutes more, I can't imagine what would have been the toll.
    I was going to make that point too. A small carry pistol would not have even slowed this guy down and would have just brought his attention to who was shooting at him. There was a movie out, you can watch it on you tube, called 44 Minutes the North Hollywood Shoot Out. It gives a good idea of what effect small weapons have on body armor. He obviously feared someone might shoot back, therefore the body armor.
    When I die I'm sure to go to heaven, cause I spent my time in hell.

    You get more with a kind word and a two by four, than you do with just a kind word.

  11. #11
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    USA, Southern
    Posts
    27,683
    Thanks (Given)
    32441
    Thanks (Received)
    17532
    Likes (Given)
    3631
    Likes (Received)
    3156
    Piss Off (Given)
    21
    Piss Off (Received)
    2
    Mentioned
    58 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    21475258

    Default

    [QUOTE=gabosaurus;567150]Many eyewitness accounts state that the gunman suddenly quit firing and walked out. Even though he was heavily armed and obviously had more guns and ammunition. The gunman then quietly surrendered to police and warned them that his apartment was booby trapped.

    A neighbor of the gunman stated that he left very loud techno music playing in apartment when he left for the theater.
    Does this perhaps mean that techno music caused him to flip out? Can we ban techno music because of it?[/QUOTE]

    Only if it had been that freaking rap music(better known as rap crap), then I would agree and even donate money for enforcement too!-
    Could be the first and last time we even sort of agree on anything.--Tyr
    18 U.S. Code § 2381-Treason Whoever, owing allegiance to the United States, levies war against them or adheres to their enemies, giving them aid and comfort within the United States or elsewhere, is guilty of treason and shall suffer death, or shall be imprisoned not less than five years and fined under this title but not less than $10,000; and shall be incapable of holding any office under the United States.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Debate Policy - Political Forums