Proper role of government..

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

What is the proper role of government?
Is it to tax the rich to give to the poor, to care for us from cradle to grave?
I think not...I think government's primary role is to provide security for the nation and give by so doing a safe environment for it's citizens to prosper and advance as individuals that can raise thier families in peace while enjoying the fruits of thier labor!
It is generally agreed that the most important single function of government is to secure the rights and freedoms of individual citizens. But, what are those rights? And what is their source? Until these questions are answered there is little likelihood that we can correctly determine how government can best secure them.

Thomas Paine, in the days of the American Revolution, explained that:
"Rights are not gifts from one man to another, nor from one class of men to another... It is impossible to discover any origin of rights otherwise than in the origin of man; it consequently follows that rights appertain to man in right of his existence, and must therefore be equal to every man."

Thomas Jefferson questioned:
"Can the liberties of a nation be thought secure when we have removed their only firm basis, a conviction in the minds of the people that these liberties are of the gift of God? That they are not to be violated but with his wrath?"

Government is the unification of citizens to insure the rights of individual citizens not to insure the authority of the collective over the individual citizen! This is the difference from the founding philosophy to the current liberal/progressive force that our government has now become!

Laws are to maintain society and that is to give security to the individual to pursue life without having to be on constant guard against evil. That is the fundamental reason for government. It is not to give a cradle to grave life in exchange for the sacrifice of individual Liberty!

Our Constitution must be restored to its proper place in our lives. It must be taught in schools in order for our children to understand Liberty and it's value and costs. The fact that it is under constant and brutal attacks by the left/lib/dem cadre of progressive "idiots" should wake up even the deepest sleepers! For once its abandoned or destroyed we are lost IMHO! -Tyr

[red state]

Tyr,

The founding fathers NEVER meant for us to be a welfare state and it is clear to me that States are now like little nations who are members of the UN. They cater to the master and it seems that our States are doing the same. The only problem is the RED STATES who are not completely sold out YET. The UNION is not working the way it was intended and I'm getting to the point that I'd rather see RED STATES do their own thing before we all go down together. If you hanging from a cliff and both are going to fall (both WILL fall) and you can save yourself by cutting the rope...you may have to cut the rope.

I'm all for holding on for a brother but the more I see of blue states the more foreign they seem. I actually see blue states as an enemy because from within these blue states are those who STRIVE to dictate my religion, how I raise my children and with how I am to defend my family (if I'm allowed to defend them at all). The disease is spreading and I heard that a gal in Mississippi is raising can and determined to ban "assault weapons". Close the border you say....I'm about ready to close our State lines. Keep your filth out of my State...I like it the way it is right now thank you very much. You fix your problems before trying to ram your filth down our throats.

Am I a rebel? I must be if I refuse to cave in to the whims and will of those who would force me to live as one who occupied a plot of land and required to work for the Lord who owned that land with promises of entitlements and/or protection. Am I a rebel...YES! Just as those who broke free from King George! We may very well have to start this thing all over again! Boys, keep you powder dry, your axes sharp and your knives handy.

Tyr, I'd rather look over my shoulder for common thieves and vile murderers than look over my shoulder in fear of my gov. A gov. that is going to 'allowed' what I say, do or think and whether I'm 'allowed' to own something at any given moment or with what I'm to defend myself with...if I'm allowed to defend myself at all. You've posted for years and have met many folks. You've read the posts from some of these liberals who would gladly see the same thing happen to you as what this scum wrote about the six year old boy who so adequately voiced his opinion about reasons that NONE of us should (or should have) voted for B.O. Granted, few are civil and even open minded but most are vile little liberals from all over the world. Regardless of where they originate, they all share the same mindset. Over the years, you've read posts of those who label themselves conservatives but when you get down to it...they're really not conservative at all and would give you up in a second. All of them consider us a threat to their "image" or to their "agenda". Many of them consider us to be vigilantes, racist, ignorant rednecks, doomsayers and an obstacle that prevents progress, equality and harmony.


treadonmeflag.gif

[aboutime]

I agree. The constitution should be taught to our children in schools of every kind. Bu the problem seems to be. That would be impossible to do since...as has been demonstrated in many ways over the last few decades. That teaching the constitution...like Obama claims to have done, and by teachers who are not nearly educated enough to do so...is next to an impossibility as well.

The Democrat, Liberal, Progressive side of the political aisle, and belief theories...which includes thousands of UNDEREDUCATED teachers who are charged to brainwash our children with their Liberal lies about the Unknown Constitution, is, and should be a crime against nature.

When Democrats like Obama and friends are permitted, without anyone to block their distortion of our Constitution. Our children, and a large percentage of our population that is basically EDUCATIONALLY challenged will always accept the distortions of people like Obama. Merely because they HONESTLY do not know any better, nor are they informed enough to use their own minds to reason, and seek common sense solutions.
Instead. They just follow like those SHEEP everyone likes to call those who HAVE NO MINDS of their own to use, without the help of FALSE PROPHETS like Obama.

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

Can we all agree that government is but a necessary evil? One we must endure to live in a free society and for the advancement of mankind. Since God created man with certain unalienable rights, and man, in turn, created government to help secure and safeguard those rights, it follows that man is superior to the creature which he created. Man is superior to government and should remain master over it, not the other way around. Even the non-believer can appreciate the logic of this relationship.

Leaving aside, for a moment, the question of the divine origin of rights, it is obvious that a government is nothing more or less than a relatively small group of citizens who have been hired, in a sense, by the rest of us to perform certain functions and discharge certain responsibilities which have been authorized. It stands to reason that the government itself has no innate power or privilege to do anything. Its only source of authority and power is from the people who have created it. This is made clear in the Preamble to the Constitution of the United States, which reads: "WE THE PEOPLE... do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America."

The important thing to keep in mind is that the people who have created their government can give to that government only such powers as they, themselves, have in the first place. Obviously, they cannot give that which they do not possess. So, the question boils down to this. What powers properly belong to each and every person in the absence of and prior to the establishment of any organized governmental form? A hypothetical question? Yes, indeed! But, it is a question which is vital to an understanding of the principles which underlie the proper function of government.

Of course, as James Madison, sometimes called the Father of the Constitution, said, "If men were angels, no government would be necessary. If angels were to govern men, neither external nor internal controls on government would be necessary." (The Federalist, No. 51)

[CSM]

... What powers properly belong to each and every person in the absence of and prior to the establishment of any organized governmental form? A hypothetical question? Yes, indeed! But, it is a question which is vital to an understanding of the principles which underlie the proper function of government....

I am not so sure that it's a hypothetical question at all. Some would argue that the Bill of Rights enumerates those rights belonging to the individual in which government must not interfere. Then of course there is the whole "life, liberty, and pursuit of happiness" thing as well and "certain inalienable rights". In my opinion, the Founding Fathers were quite clear on the rights of the individual which "the Creator" granted to every human being.

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

I am not so sure that it's a hypothetical question at all. Some would argue that the Bill of Rights enumerates those rights belonging to the individual in which government must not interfere. Then of course there is the whole "life, liberty, and pursuit of happiness" thing as well and "certain inalienable rights". In my opinion, the Founding Fathers were quite clear on the rights of the individual which "the Creator" granted to every human being.

I agree that it is more real than hypothetical. The point being is when government starts attacking that which it was created to advance and protect then it becomes the responsibility of its citizens to institute serious change by any means possible! This what our government fears and why they are hellbent on taking away gun rights/ownership. Individual rights were never meant to be so greatly trampled by the very entity created to protect those rights. Yet government sees that to gain EVER MORE POWER that is exactly what it MUST DO! We now have hadour formerly protective dog go mad and attack it's master. Quite possible that it shall have to be put down in order for the master to survive(how to do that!). We shall see on that and this coming election will likely be the deciding factor IMHO.-Tyr

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

Tyr, I'd rather look over my shoulder for common thieves and vile murderers than look over my shoulder in fear of my gov. A gov. that is going to 'allowed' what I say, do or think and whether I'm 'allowed' to own something at any given moment or with what I'm to defend myself with...if I'm allowed to defend myself at all. You've posted for years and have met many folks. You've read the posts from some of these liberals who would gladly see the same thing happen to you as what this scum wrote about the six year old boy who so adequately voiced his opinion about reasons that NONE of us should (or should have) voted for B.O. Granted, few are civil and even open minded but most are vile little liberals from all over the world. Regardless of where they originate, they all share the same mindset. Over the years, you've read posts of those who label themselves conservatives but when you get down to it...they're really not conservative at all and would give you up in a second. All of them consider us a threat to their "image" or to their "agenda". Many of them consider us to be vigilantes, racist, ignorant rednecks, doomsayers and an obstacle that prevents progress, equality and harmony.


treadonmeflag.gif

I agree , we have far too many "socalled" conservatives that have adopted the PC appeasor type mentality. They do a great disservice to the cause IMHO. BETTER HOT OR COLD THAN LUKEWARM!
Rest assured my friend that I have a firm grasp on how many would dearly love for all true patriots to be destroyed by any means possible!
We have arrived at a crossroads of sorts and which path we take will decide if our Republic stands or falls! I truly believe that and will do my small bit to see that we take the right path.-Tyr

[fj1200]

What is the proper role of government?

The founding fathers NEVER meant for us to be a welfare state...

I agree.

Can we all agree...

I agree...

I agree...

I'm glad that there is so much agreement on the role of government. Who will be refusing their Social Security checks and Medicare benefits?

[Little-Acorn]

I'm glad that there is so much agreement on the role of government. Who will be refusing their Social Security checks and Medicare benefits?

This is a common dodge, asking people who have had money forcibly taken away from them all their lives, if they will object to getting some of it back.

People who ask this question, never seem to get around to asking, "If you have the option of not PAYING INTO Social Security or Medicare, and not getting any back later, who will be refusing to participate in them?"

For some reason they forget to ask that one.

Or maybe they aren't forgetting, but are running away from that question with all the speed their rubbery legs can muster.

[fj1200]

This is a common dodge, asking people who have had money forcibly taken away from them all their lives, if they will object to getting some of it back.

People who ask this question, never seem to get around to asking, "If you have the option of not PAYING INTO Social Security or Medicare, and not getting any back later, who will be refusing to participate in them?"

Do you have the power of your convictions? Your second question; Not really an option is it?

[Little-Acorn]

Do you have the power of your convictions?

Mmm hmm.

This is a common dodge, asking people who have had money forcibly taken away from them all their lives, if they will object to getting some of it back.

People who ask this question, never seem to get around to asking, "If you have the option of not PAYING INTO Social Security or Medicare, and not getting any back later, who will be refusing to participate in them?"

For some reason they forget to ask that one.

Or maybe they aren't forgetting, but are running away from that question with all the speed their rubbery legs can muster.

Your second question; Not really an option is it?

That sound you all just heard was fj2000 running away at full speed, as predicted.

Can I call 'em, or what?

.

[fj1200]

Can I call 'em, or what?

Not really. You seldom take conversations past two or three posts especially when you build yourself an out. We have many big talking constitutionalists here but does the rubber meet the road? I'm sure many here would opt out but would they also consign themselves to poverty if they did not manage their assets properly in retirement? Your question was silly and a strawman.

[fj1200]

Mmm hmm.

BTW, am I to understand that your convictions are empty?

[fj1200]

... or what?

:crickets:

[revelarts]

Proper role,
Protect persons / capture criminals, protect property rights, standardize justice or act as a neutral 3rd party. Organize militia of people for defense from outside threats.
An FDA that only ensured that what a person/co said was in something was actually in it would be good to.

That's a minimum, much over that i think is more trouble than it's worth