Proper role of government..

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

What is the proper role of government?
Is it to tax the rich to give to the poor, to care for us from cradle to grave?
I think not...I think government's primary role is to provide security for the nation and give by so doing a safe environment for it's citizens to prosper and advance as individuals that can raise thier families in peace while enjoying the fruits of thier labor!
It is generally agreed that the most important single function of government is to secure the rights and freedoms of individual citizens. But, what are those rights? And what is their source? Until these questions are answered there is little likelihood that we can correctly determine how government can best secure them.

Thomas Paine, in the days of the American Revolution, explained that:
"Rights are not gifts from one man to another, nor from one class of men to another... It is impossible to discover any origin of rights otherwise than in the origin of man; it consequently follows that rights appertain to man in right of his existence, and must therefore be equal to every man."

Thomas Jefferson questioned:
"Can the liberties of a nation be thought secure when we have removed their only firm basis, a conviction in the minds of the people that these liberties are of the gift of God? That they are not to be violated but with his wrath?"

Government is the unification of citizens to insure the rights of individual citizens not to insure the authority of the collective over the individual citizen! This is the difference from the founding philosophy to the current liberal/progressive force that our government has now become!

Laws are to maintain society and that is to give security to the individual to pursue life without having to be on constant guard against evil. That is the fundamental reason for government. It is not to give a cradle to grave life in exchange for the sacrifice of individual Liberty!

Our Constitution must be restored to its proper place in our lives. It must be taught in schools in order for our children to understand Liberty and it's value and costs. The fact that it is under constant and brutal attacks by the left/lib/dem cadre of progressive "idiots" should wake up even the deepest sleepers! For once its abandoned or destroyed we are lost IMHO! -Tyr

[red state]

Tyr,

The founding fathers NEVER meant for us to be a welfare state and it is clear to me that States are now like little nations who are members of the UN. They cater to the master and it seems that our States are doing the same. The only problem is the RED STATES who are not completely sold out YET. The UNION is not working the way it was intended and I'm getting to the point that I'd rather see RED STATES do their own thing before we all go down together. If you hanging from a cliff and both are going to fall (both WILL fall) and you can save yourself by cutting the rope...you may have to cut the rope.

I'm all for holding on for a brother but the more I see of blue states the more foreign they seem. I actually see blue states as an enemy because from within these blue states are those who STRIVE to dictate my religion, how I raise my children and with how I am to defend my family (if I'm allowed to defend them at all). The disease is spreading and I heard that a gal in Mississippi is raising can and determined to ban "assault weapons". Close the border you say....I'm about ready to close our State lines. Keep your filth out of my State...I like it the way it is right now thank you very much. You fix your problems before trying to ram your filth down our throats.

Am I a rebel? I must be if I refuse to cave in to the whims and will of those who would force me to live as one who occupied a plot of land and required to work for the Lord who owned that land with promises of entitlements and/or protection. Am I a rebel...YES! Just as those who broke free from King George! We may very well have to start this thing all over again! Boys, keep you powder dry, your axes sharp and your knives handy.

Tyr, I'd rather look over my shoulder for common thieves and vile murderers than look over my shoulder in fear of my gov. A gov. that is going to 'allowed' what I say, do or think and whether I'm 'allowed' to own something at any given moment or with what I'm to defend myself with...if I'm allowed to defend myself at all. You've posted for years and have met many folks. You've read the posts from some of these liberals who would gladly see the same thing happen to you as what this scum wrote about the six year old boy who so adequately voiced his opinion about reasons that NONE of us should (or should have) voted for B.O. Granted, few are civil and even open minded but most are vile little liberals from all over the world. Regardless of where they originate, they all share the same mindset. Over the years, you've read posts of those who label themselves conservatives but when you get down to it...they're really not conservative at all and would give you up in a second. All of them consider us a threat to their "image" or to their "agenda". Many of them consider us to be vigilantes, racist, ignorant rednecks, doomsayers and an obstacle that prevents progress, equality and harmony.


treadonmeflag.gif

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

Tyr, I'd rather look over my shoulder for common thieves and vile murderers than look over my shoulder in fear of my gov. A gov. that is going to 'allowed' what I say, do or think and whether I'm 'allowed' to own something at any given moment or with what I'm to defend myself with...if I'm allowed to defend myself at all. You've posted for years and have met many folks. You've read the posts from some of these liberals who would gladly see the same thing happen to you as what this scum wrote about the six year old boy who so adequately voiced his opinion about reasons that NONE of us should (or should have) voted for B.O. Granted, few are civil and even open minded but most are vile little liberals from all over the world. Regardless of where they originate, they all share the same mindset. Over the years, you've read posts of those who label themselves conservatives but when you get down to it...they're really not conservative at all and would give you up in a second. All of them consider us a threat to their "image" or to their "agenda". Many of them consider us to be vigilantes, racist, ignorant rednecks, doomsayers and an obstacle that prevents progress, equality and harmony.


treadonmeflag.gif

I agree , we have far too many "socalled" conservatives that have adopted the PC appeasor type mentality. They do a great disservice to the cause IMHO. BETTER HOT OR COLD THAN LUKEWARM!
Rest assured my friend that I have a firm grasp on how many would dearly love for all true patriots to be destroyed by any means possible!
We have arrived at a crossroads of sorts and which path we take will decide if our Republic stands or falls! I truly believe that and will do my small bit to see that we take the right path.-Tyr

[fj1200]

What is the proper role of government?

The founding fathers NEVER meant for us to be a welfare state...

I agree.

Can we all agree...

I agree...

I agree...

I'm glad that there is so much agreement on the role of government. Who will be refusing their Social Security checks and Medicare benefits?

[Little-Acorn]

I'm glad that there is so much agreement on the role of government. Who will be refusing their Social Security checks and Medicare benefits?

This is a common dodge, asking people who have had money forcibly taken away from them all their lives, if they will object to getting some of it back.

People who ask this question, never seem to get around to asking, "If you have the option of not PAYING INTO Social Security or Medicare, and not getting any back later, who will be refusing to participate in them?"

For some reason they forget to ask that one.

Or maybe they aren't forgetting, but are running away from that question with all the speed their rubbery legs can muster.

[fj1200]

This is a common dodge, asking people who have had money forcibly taken away from them all their lives, if they will object to getting some of it back.

People who ask this question, never seem to get around to asking, "If you have the option of not PAYING INTO Social Security or Medicare, and not getting any back later, who will be refusing to participate in them?"

Do you have the power of your convictions? Your second question; Not really an option is it?

[tailfins]

Tyr,

The founding fathers NEVER meant for us to be a welfare state and it is clear to me that States are now like little nations who are members of the UN. They cater to the master and it seems that our States are doing the same. The only problem is the RED STATES who are not completely sold out YET. The UNION is not working the way it was intended and I'm getting to the point that I'd rather see RED STATES do their own thing before we all go down together. If you hanging from a cliff and both are going to fall (both WILL fall) and you can save yourself by cutting the rope...you may have to cut the rope.

I'm all for holding on for a brother but the more I see of blue states the more foreign they seem. I actually see blue states as an enemy because from within these blue states are those who STRIVE to dictate my religion, how I raise my children and with how I am to defend my family (if I'm allowed to defend them at all). The disease is spreading and I heard that a gal in Mississippi is raising can and determined to ban "assault weapons". Close the border you say....I'm about ready to close our State lines. Keep your filth out of my State...I like it the way it is right now thank you very much. You fix your problems before trying to ram your filth down our throats.

Am I a rebel? I must be if I refuse to cave in to the whims and will of those who would force me to live as one who occupied a plot of land and required to work for the Lord who owned that land with promises of entitlements and/or protection. Am I a rebel...YES! Just as those who broke free from King George! We may very well have to start this thing all over again! Boys, keep you powder dry, your axes sharp and your knives handy.

Tyr, I'd rather look over my shoulder for common thieves and vile murderers than look over my shoulder in fear of my gov. A gov. that is going to 'allowed' what I say, do or think and whether I'm 'allowed' to own something at any given moment or with what I'm to defend myself with...if I'm allowed to defend myself at all. You've posted for years and have met many folks. You've read the posts from some of these liberals who would gladly see the same thing happen to you as what this scum wrote about the six year old boy who so adequately voiced his opinion about reasons that NONE of us should (or should have) voted for B.O. Granted, few are civil and even open minded but most are vile little liberals from all over the world. Regardless of where they originate, they all share the same mindset. Over the years, you've read posts of those who label themselves conservatives but when you get down to it...they're really not conservative at all and would give you up in a second. All of them consider us a threat to their "image" or to their "agenda". Many of them consider us to be vigilantes, racist, ignorant rednecks, doomsayers and an obstacle that prevents progress, equality and harmony.


treadonmeflag.gif

For someone who wants to responsible for himself, you sure worry about who wins elections. Even Limbaugh says his success is not determined by who wins elections. I'll take Cambridge, Mass. (where coincidentally due to popular demand Cuban government TV is available on cable) over Mississippi any day of the week. There are good "Red" states and crappy "Red" states just as there are "Blue". Sure, conservative policies tend to produce prosperity and liberal policies tend to be a drag, but they are not an end all and be all. There are just too many moving parts to that calculation. If you are an educated person, Massachusetts is currently the best place in the nation to weather the recession.

If you can stomach paying $3,000 for a small apartment, Williston, ND is also an employee's labor market. Politics is a much smaller factor than you realize. I may consider Dallas-Fort Worth in the future depending on how severe the typical problems of traffic congestion and housing shortages are. Currently Texas is not a good environment because the hype has caused too many refugees from the recession to move there, overpowering the job market. The Texas unemployment rate is almost two percentage points higher than New Hampshire which is part of the Boston labor market.

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

THOMAS JEFFERSON
At 5, began studying under his cousin's tutor.
At 9, studied Latin, Greek and French.
At 14, studied classical literature and additional languages.
At 16, entered the College of William and Mary.
At 19, studied Law for 5 years starting under George Wythe.
At 23, started his own law practice.
At 25, was elected to the Virginia House of Burgesses.
At 31, wrote the widely circulated "Summary View of the Rights of British America " and retired from his law practice.
At 32, was a Delegate to the Second Continental Congress.
At 33, wrote the Declaration of Independence .
At 33, took three years to revise Virginia ’s legal code and wrote a Public Education bill and a statute for Religious Freedom.
At 36, was elected the second Governor of Virginia succeeding Patrick Henry.
At 40, served in Congress for two years.
At 41, was the American minister to France and negotiated commercial treaties with European nations along with Ben Franklin and John Adams.
At 46, served as the first Secretary of State under George Washington.
At 53, served as Vice President and was elected president of the American Philosophical Society.
At 55, drafted the Kentucky Resolutions and became the active head of Republican Party.
At 57, was elected the third president of the United States .
At 60, obtained the Louisiana Purchase doubling the nation’s size.
At 61, was elected to a second term as President.
At 65, retired to Monticello .
At 80, helped President Monroe shape the Monroe Doctrine.
At 81, almost single-handedly created the University of Virginia and served as its first president.
At 83, died on the 50th anniversary of the Signing of the Declaration of Independence.
John F. Kennedy held a dinner in the white House for a group of the brightest minds in the nation at that time. He made this statement: "This is perhaps the assembly of the most intelligence ever to gather at one time in the White House with the exception of when Thomas Jefferson dined alone."
When we get piled upon one another in large cities, as in Europe, we shall become as corrupt as Europe .
Thomas Jefferson
The democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not.
Thomas Jefferson
It is incumbent on every generation to pay its own debts as it goes. A principle which if acted on would save one-half the wars of the world.
Thomas Jefferson
I predict future happiness for Americans if they can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them.
Thomas Jefferson
My reading of history convinces me that most bad government results from too much government.
Thomas Jefferson
No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms.
Thomas Jefferson
The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government.
Thomas Jefferson
The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants.
Thomas Jefferson
To compel a man to subsidize with his taxes the propagation of ideas which he disbelieves and abhors is sinful and tyrannical.
Thomas Jefferson
Thomas Jefferson said in 1802:
I believe that banking institutions are more dangerous to our liberties than standing armies. If the American people ever allow private banks to control the issue of their currency, first by inflation, then by deflation, the banks and corporations that will grow up around the banks will deprive
the people of all property - until their children wake-up homeless on the continent their fathers conquered.

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Jefferson's brilliance can not be questioned by any honorable intelligent person. His life and accomplishments speak clearly to us especially in regards to the government's role and the danger government represents to our lives and freedoms! I have no doubt that if Jefferson were alive to judge today his opinion of obama and obama's treason would be that a day in court is due him and if found guilty he should receive the strongest sentence allowed by law..-Tyr

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

http://www.thefreemanonline.org/head...ood-bad-state/

The Good State and the Bad State, Progressivism, Part III
What Constitution?
Posted July 14, 2010
Most Americans pay homage to the U.S. Constitution. Public officials swear to “protect and defend the Constitution of the United States from all enemies, both foreign and domestic,” and the late Sen. Robert Byrd, who wrote the book on pork barrel spending, carried a copy of the document with him at all times.

Almost everyone in authority claims to revere the Constitution. However, few people of them believe they should be bound by the limitations that define the document.
During the late 1800s and early 1900s the U.S. Supreme Court struck down laws imposed at all governmental levels that attempted to regulate business hours and employee pay. Today, the U.S. secretary of labor dictates much labor policy
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Progressives won the day because they gained control of the institutions that serve as “gatekeepers” in civil society, and they also won because intervention begets more intervention. For example, the Federal Reserve System, a favorite of Progressives, helped create the Great Depression and the New Deal, which, in effect, overthrew what was left of the constitutional order.

Today, the United States is what I call a “Progressive Democracy,” bearing little resemblance to the republic that existed 200 years ago. However, no matter how “advanced” government may claim to be, it still is government and needs to be controlled.

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Any government powerful enough to give you all you need (cradle to grave care) is powerful enough and quite likely to take all you have at some point in time!
Not only is our government too damn big it has also went down a dark and scary path that lends itself easily to powermadness. Such madness will march towards dictatorial power if not reversed. The beast ALWAYS aspire to have absolute control over its victims!--Tyr

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

A liberal state of mind just in time to displace us as the strong guardsman in this evil and violent 'ole world!
The progressive (liberal fantasy)philosophy, an economic failure, is also a massive blight on our souls. For it chains man to his fellow man and impoverishes all of society by taking away man’s individualism, his sense of responsibility and his self-worth. The progressive (liberal)state dehumanizes and demoralizes man, leaving him a pathetic and miserable lttle slave. There is no compassion in such a system. There is no morality in such a system. All that there is man ruling over his fellow man, throwing miserly government benefits at various mindless voting groups unable to see through such a scheme after so many years of socialistic ideological subversion. Yet we are blessed that our founders gave us a great and valuable weapon, the vote, which come this November we can as defenders of our culture, lives and nation use to great advantage by kicking out the vermin that has infected and tortured us so greatly since 2008.-Tyr

[aboutime]

I agree. The constitution should be taught to our children in schools of every kind. Bu the problem seems to be. That would be impossible to do since...as has been demonstrated in many ways over the last few decades. That teaching the constitution...like Obama claims to have done, and by teachers who are not nearly educated enough to do so...is next to an impossibility as well.

The Democrat, Liberal, Progressive side of the political aisle, and belief theories...which includes thousands of UNDEREDUCATED teachers who are charged to brainwash our children with their Liberal lies about the Unknown Constitution, is, and should be a crime against nature.

When Democrats like Obama and friends are permitted, without anyone to block their distortion of our Constitution. Our children, and a large percentage of our population that is basically EDUCATIONALLY challenged will always accept the distortions of people like Obama. Merely because they HONESTLY do not know any better, nor are they informed enough to use their own minds to reason, and seek common sense solutions.
Instead. They just follow like those SHEEP everyone likes to call those who HAVE NO MINDS of their own to use, without the help of FALSE PROPHETS like Obama.

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

Can we all agree that government is but a necessary evil? One we must endure to live in a free society and for the advancement of mankind. Since God created man with certain unalienable rights, and man, in turn, created government to help secure and safeguard those rights, it follows that man is superior to the creature which he created. Man is superior to government and should remain master over it, not the other way around. Even the non-believer can appreciate the logic of this relationship.

Leaving aside, for a moment, the question of the divine origin of rights, it is obvious that a government is nothing more or less than a relatively small group of citizens who have been hired, in a sense, by the rest of us to perform certain functions and discharge certain responsibilities which have been authorized. It stands to reason that the government itself has no innate power or privilege to do anything. Its only source of authority and power is from the people who have created it. This is made clear in the Preamble to the Constitution of the United States, which reads: "WE THE PEOPLE... do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America."

The important thing to keep in mind is that the people who have created their government can give to that government only such powers as they, themselves, have in the first place. Obviously, they cannot give that which they do not possess. So, the question boils down to this. What powers properly belong to each and every person in the absence of and prior to the establishment of any organized governmental form? A hypothetical question? Yes, indeed! But, it is a question which is vital to an understanding of the principles which underlie the proper function of government.

Of course, as James Madison, sometimes called the Father of the Constitution, said, "If men were angels, no government would be necessary. If angels were to govern men, neither external nor internal controls on government would be necessary." (The Federalist, No. 51)

[CSM]

... What powers properly belong to each and every person in the absence of and prior to the establishment of any organized governmental form? A hypothetical question? Yes, indeed! But, it is a question which is vital to an understanding of the principles which underlie the proper function of government....

I am not so sure that it's a hypothetical question at all. Some would argue that the Bill of Rights enumerates those rights belonging to the individual in which government must not interfere. Then of course there is the whole "life, liberty, and pursuit of happiness" thing as well and "certain inalienable rights". In my opinion, the Founding Fathers were quite clear on the rights of the individual which "the Creator" granted to every human being.

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

I am not so sure that it's a hypothetical question at all. Some would argue that the Bill of Rights enumerates those rights belonging to the individual in which government must not interfere. Then of course there is the whole "life, liberty, and pursuit of happiness" thing as well and "certain inalienable rights". In my opinion, the Founding Fathers were quite clear on the rights of the individual which "the Creator" granted to every human being.

I agree that it is more real than hypothetical. The point being is when government starts attacking that which it was created to advance and protect then it becomes the responsibility of its citizens to institute serious change by any means possible! This what our government fears and why they are hellbent on taking away gun rights/ownership. Individual rights were never meant to be so greatly trampled by the very entity created to protect those rights. Yet government sees that to gain EVER MORE POWER that is exactly what it MUST DO! We now have hadour formerly protective dog go mad and attack it's master. Quite possible that it shall have to be put down in order for the master to survive(how to do that!). We shall see on that and this coming election will likely be the deciding factor IMHO.-Tyr