Julian Assange (WikiLeaks) granted asylum

[Dilloduck]

The CIA needs to hire him if he's not already on the payroll.

[Drummond]

Bolded above, tells me what I've been wondering about you. " the blessed mohammed", pretty much says it all!!
While you defend those that murdered over a cartoon being made of that ffing pervert!!
Are you truly a "rugmaster" ?-Tyr

Well spotted, Tyr. The 'blessed' Mohammed ??? What on EARTH are you going on about, Noir ??

[jimnyc]

Tons of these released documents were not of the "whistleblower" variety. They were simply documents meant to be private/privileged and not for public consumption. Leave it at that for a moment while I make a legal comparison...

Many famous people have emails (sound familiar?) that are hacked and/or stolen (sound familiar?). And then these emails are reproduced recklessly for public consumption (sound familiar?). There is no whistleblowing involved and it only served to embarrass the people in the emails.

MANY celebs, and almost in all cases where they fought back, have won their cases. And not only were the hackers/thieves busted and punished, but so were the sites that tried to reproduce the stolen documents. Cease and desists flow heavily and all attempts are made to retract the publishing, and even lawsuits, and many successful, are brought against the sites who solely republished the stolen materials. (sound familiar?)

These are purely looked at as thefts, and rightly so. But when someone does so towards a political person/entity that they don't care for, all of a sudden that theft somehow becomes A-ok. So take out all of the possible illegal things that were exposed via Wikileaks and the Assange/Manning connection. Those made up for a extremely small portion of the documents released. So what we're left with is stolen, private and confidential documents, reproduced for public consumption. Nothing illegal in the extreme overall majority of these documents and no "whistleblower" crap can remotely be connected.

A crime is a crime is a crime, and a thief is a thief.

[jimnyc]

The CIA needs to hire him if he's not already on the payroll.

That's like hiring a bank robber to work in a vault!

[Dilloduck]

Casino's hire the best cheats and con men.

[logroller]

You would be VERY hard pressed to find a post of mine where I defended any actions of the government, especially anything criminal. I do think the government needs to be held accountable, but that hardly absolves other criminals from their actions. And that's what you guys are trying to do, declare innocence on the part of Assange/Manning because they may have exposed illegal activity amongst the endless amount of information they passed along. Neither action should make the other any less legal. It matters not WHEN the information took place. If we're talking about 2 crimes here, if that's what you're getting at, then the crimes need to be handled separately. NOTHING in any of these documents would allow us to ignore the criminal actions that took place to bring them to light. However great some may see these actions, it was still criminal actions that brought them to light. Is that what we're shooting for here in the US? If we can't handle something legally, use criminal actions instead?

As to your analogy, the thief should rightly so be locked up immediately for his criminal actions. If anything was discovered that can legally be held against the victim, then that gets handled separately. But we simply can't tell the thief that we'll get back to him another day as the other crime took place first.

A crime is a crime is a crime. We don't get to pick and choose, and for Any reason declare a crime not a crime - that's what our justice system is for.

Oh gimme a break Jim. This isn't about justice, it's about power. Information is power; and assange upset the overhelmingly superior advantage the us govt has. If justice were the mantra of the us government, we'd of paid reparations to Nicaragua over the contra affair; instead we enjoyed the veto power (our's, the sole vote against) of the icj's determination. What's that you said earlier about the accused bing able to determine the validity of charges???

Jafar, you talk of 'checks and balances'. Isn't the whole point of what Wikileaks has done is that it's set about BUSTING UP those checks and balances ?

Assange has done this to a number of countries .. he's a wrecker. He couldn't have possibly believed that anything other than harm could come from his activities.

And note who his friends and supporters are .. most notably, creatures of the LEFT, such as John Pilger, who I've mentioned previously. Pilger is both anti-British Establishment, and anti-American. He was advocating actions of civil disobedience several years ago, because of American activities in the War on Terror !!

But as for Assange, it's my understanding that though America hasn't been his only victim by any means, he has singled out America for particular focus. No wonder the Left likes him.

Final point. American and UK citizens both elect their Governments, therefore, they elect those who have Governmental influence in the matters that Assange has seen fit to meddle with. So tell me, Jafar, who elected Assange and his friends to THEIR positions, who do THEY democratically represent ?

If the answer is 'nobody did' .. AND IT IS .. then one can argue that Assange has been undemocratic in his attacks, and even that they amount to an assault upon democracy itself.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the purpose of checks and balances to limit the over zealous agencies of govt; not those who oppose their actions or undermine that zeal.
The exposé of government actions against people to the public being interpreted as subversive of democracy reaks of authoritarianism.

Even if he thinks he's safe, he may not be. There IS legislation in British law which would provide (if the UK ever used it) for the Embassy to lose its status as one, in which case, the Embassy would become British soil, therefore fully accessible to our authorities.

This is problematic, though, because if the diplomatic inviolability of foreign Embassies was brought into question more generally, the effect worldwide could be potentially ruinous.

My guess - Westminster will wait .. for a while. If they become convinced that this is too unbreakable a stalemate, though, they will revoke the status of the Embassy and go in to take Assange into custody. I don't believe we'll wait 'forever' before acting.

http://hereandnow.wbur.org/2012/08/1...lemate-embassy

I don't discount the authority of the UK to do so; of course they can. He with the greatest power to enforce the rules is in no way bound by them-- that's what assange exposed. But don't try to sell the state's authority as righteous or just; when it's plainly about the power to impose their will.

[jimnyc]

Oh gimme a break Jim. This isn't about justice, it's about power.

Quite frankly, no breaks given, and I don't care what you or anyone "think". The FACT is, both Assange and Manning committed crimes. One is incarcerated and awaiting his day in court, the other is fleeing rather than having his day in court. The fact that they both stole is indisputable, and that makes them criminals. So I'll say "oh, gimme a break logroller" and realize that if someone commits a crime, they need to answer to the courts and have justice determine guilt or innocence. Regardless of his motives or what a great guy you all think he is, he conspired to steal and further disseminated stolen, and confidential arguments. With all the major legalities aside, they are guilty of theft, and this isn't of the petty theft variety. And just as I don't think Obama/Holder should be allowed to avoid the justice system over the Fast and Furious debacle, I don't think these guys should get to avoid the justice system. And then the netx time someone commits a major crime, and some feel he/she did it for noble reasons, it just snowballs. Sorry, a lot of you guys come up on the end of supporting criminals at times, and thinking their intent should absolve them from the law.

We have a justice system, and it's been said many times that it isn't perfect, but it's the best we have. Well, it's the worst we have when we feel certain people are above the law, and based on the feelings of the people determining, they may or may not have to answer for crimes.
I will be sure to shoot out to some of you guys though if I ever get busted for a crime, a good character reference about what a nice criminal I am would be helpful!

[Dilloduck]

Quite frankly, no breaks given, and I don't care what you or anyone "think". The FACT is, both Assange and Manning committed crimes. One is incarcerated and awaiting his day in court, the other is fleeing rather than having his day in court. The fact that they both stole is indisputable, and that makes them criminals. So I'll say "oh, gimme a break logroller" and realize that if someone commits a crime, they need to answer to the courts and have justice determine guilt or innocence. Regardless of his motives or what a great guy you all think he is, he conspired to steal and further disseminated stolen, and confidential arguments. With all the major legalities aside, they are guilty of theft, and this isn't of the petty theft variety. And just as I don't think Obama/Holder should be allowed to avoid the justice system over the Fast and Furious debacle, I don't think these guys should get to avoid the justice system. And then the netx time someone commits a major crime, and some feel he/she did it for noble reasons, it just snowballs. Sorry, a lot of you guys come up on the end of supporting criminals at times, and thinking their intent should absolve them from the law.

We have a justice system, and it's been said many times that it isn't perfect, but it's the best we have. Well, it's the worst we have when we feel certain people are above the law, and based on the feelings of the people determining, they may or may not have to answer for crimes.
I will be sure to shoot out to some of you guys though if I ever get busted for a crime, a good character reference about what a nice criminal I am would be helpful!

Assange broke a law to expose lawbreakers. Even you have to admit this isn't a clear cut case.

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

People forget just how important it is for justice to be blind! We may feel for the guy that steals to feed his family but it doesnt not void the crime of stealing that he did. In this case nothing so noble as sacrificing ones freedom/security to feed starving children. The two culprits both acted out of personal beliefs/desires to usurp aothority in order to give authority/power to a different entity, not for some grand ideal of justice but for personal reasons. They are not heroes but rather closer to self-absorbed zeroes that caused great harm and Im sure a few deaths even.-Tyr

[Dilloduck]

People forget just how important it is for justice to be blind! We may feel for the guy that steals to feed his family but it doesnt not void the crime of stealing that he did. In this case nothing so noble as sacrificing ones freedom/security to feed starving children. The two culprits both acted out of personal beliefs/desires to usurp aothority in order to give authority/power to a different entity, not for some grand ideal of justice but for personal reasons. They are not heroes but rather closer to self-absorbed zeroes that caused great harm and Im sure a few deaths even.-Tyr

You aren't even close to being qualified to determine motive.

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

Assange broke a law to expose lawbreakers. Even you have to admit this isn't a clear cut case.

Bull .. Manning should be shot!! Assange should either be shot or jailed for life. The destruction their actions have caused , very likely even deaths to undercover agents(especially ours) should insure that Manning be shot! Give him his day in court , if he is found to be guilty , pronounce execution of death by firing squad and I'd do it for free.. He is a certified traitor! A man either has principles and loyalty or he doesnt! Every true traitor of every stripe should suffer immensely. His was no noble act and it is silly as hell to declare it so IMHO.-Tyr

[Dilloduck]

Bull .. Manning should be shot!! Assange should either be shot or jailed for life. The destruction their actions have caused , very likely even deaths to undercover agents(especially ours) should insure that Manning be shot! Give him his day in court , if he is found to be guilty , pronounce execution of death by firing squad and I'd do it for free.. He is a certified traitor! A man either has principles and loyalty or he doesnt! Every true traitor of every stripe should suffer immensely. His was no noble act and it is silly as hell to declare it so IMHO.-Tyr

you've already convicted Assange. Why should he bother turning himself in?

[jimnyc]

Assange broke a law to expose lawbreakers. Even you have to admit this isn't a clear cut case.

The matter with lawmakers, and whether a case should be made against anything exposed, is another matter. And if crimes were committed, those people too should face justice. But like you said above, Assange committed a crime in doing so. There's no such thing as a law being overlooked based on intent. And lets not forget the hundreds of thousands of documents released that exposed nothing criminal at all, but were still stolen.

[jimnyc]

you've already convicted Assange. Why should he bother turning himself in?

I personally think he is guilty, but it's up to a court to determine all of the facts and determine guilt or innocence, whether that be a judge or a jury.

[Dilloduck]

The matter with lawmakers, and whether a case should be made against anything exposed, is another matter. And if crimes were committed, those people too should face justice. But like you said above, Assange committed a crime in doing so. There's no such thing as a law being overlooked based on intent. And lets not forget the hundreds of thousands of documents released that exposed nothing criminal at all, but were still stolen.

I doubt the man will ever receive due process but the jury can nullify the law should they feel it warranted.