Ireland Abortion Scandal: Death of a Pregnant Woman Prompts Soul-Searching

[WiccanLiberal]

The death of an Indian woman who was allegedly refused an

abortion

even though her life appeared to her and her husband to be in danger has prompted Irish abortion rights activists to protest in several cities around the predominantly Catholic country. The public announcement on Nov. 14 of the woman’s death, which occurred last month in a hospital in the city of Galway, coincides with the release of a report commissioned by the Irish government into whether

Ireland

’s strict abortion laws should be liberalized.

Read more: http://world.time.com/2012/11/14/ire...#ixzz2CF39e6sA



This story is tremendously upsetting. No matter your position on abortion generally, this woman clearly needed help she was denied. Her adopted country and her medical colleagues (she was a dentist) failed her miserably. No woman should ever die in this way in a supposedly civilized country.

[Noir]

When asked why she was refused the doctor who's care she was in reportedly said "This is a Catholic country"....which is just about the worst thing he could of said.

Thousands of people spontaneously organised outside the Irish Parliament tonight in protest.

[logroller]

An autopsy carried out by the hospital two dayslater found that she had died from blood-poisoning and an infection known as E.coli ESBL, according to a report in the Irish Times.

op source.
not sure what the relation is between dying of an infection and not having a abortion. She wasn't pregnant with bacterium. Did they not treat her infection because she was pregnant?

[Noir]

op source.
not sure what the relation is between dying of an infection and not having a abortion. She wasn't pregnant with bacterium. Did they not treat her infection because she was pregnant?

She was having a miscarriage, that took place over 3 days, causing septicaemia (and i would also guess toxic shock). And was repeatedly denied an abortion during those days.

[Kathianne]

The death of an Indian woman who was allegedly refused an

abortion

even though her life appeared to her and her husband to be in danger has prompted Irish abortion rights activists to protest in several cities around the predominantly Catholic country. The public announcement on Nov. 14 of the woman’s death, which occurred last month in a hospital in the city of Galway, coincides with the release of a report commissioned by the Irish government into whether

Ireland

’s strict abortion laws should be liberalized.

Read more: http://world.time.com/2012/11/14/ire...#ixzz2CF39e6sA



This story is tremendously upsetting. No matter your position on abortion generally, this woman clearly needed help she was denied. Her adopted country and her medical colleagues (she was a dentist) failed her miserably. No woman should ever die in this way in a supposedly civilized country.

From what I can understand by what's here, the hospital's stance was contrary to Church teachings.

http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/01046b.htm

[jafar00]

It's such a shame that the Church has such an immovable influence in the job of the doctors. The mother's life was clearly at risk and the baby was dead. It should have been removed.

[jimnyc]

It's such a shame that the Church has such an immovable influence in the job of the doctors. The mother's life was clearly at risk and the baby was dead. It should have been removed.

It was "law". If a law is ever passed banning abortion in the US, that's not the Church, but rather lawmakers. Granted, the Church has influence, but this would still be the decision of lawmakers that would be making such a procedure illegal. I honestly don't know about Ireland, but I think if anything, it's the laws that should be blamed, not the church for their stance. Maybe blame the Church for having influence over lawmakers. But I think religions in all countries have influence over laws, wouldn't you agree?

And while I am no fan of abortion, I think in cases of rape and the mother's life being in danger are different, and MUCH different if the baby is dead already. But from what I'm reading, they legally couldn't do anything until there was no heartbeat. That's where I think the main issue comes in. If this baby couldn't survive, they knew death was imminent, and the mother's life was in danger - they should have made her life the primary responsibility.

[revelarts]

It's tragic.
But as Kathianne points out the life of the mother is an universally accepted exception in Christian teachings. Looks like a case where the law goes farther than the Church.

As tragic as the case is, i doubt it happens at the UK abortion rate of 500+ per day.

Maybe those deaths will make the news again too.

[Marcus Aurelius]

It's such a shame that the Church has such an immovable influence in the job of the doctors. The mother's life was clearly at risk and the baby was dead. It should have been removed.

As would be allowed by the church under the circumstances in this case.

http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/01046b.htm

However, if medical treatment or surgical operation, necessary to save a mother's life, is applied to her organism (though the child's death would, or at least might, follow as a regretted but unavoidable consequence), it should not be maintained that the fetal life is thereby directly attacked. Moralists agree that we are not always prohibited from doing what is lawful in itself, though evil consequences may follow which we do not desire. The good effects of our acts are then directly intended, and the regretted evil consequences are reluctantly permitted to follow because we cannot avoid them. The evil thus permitted is said to be indirectly intended. It is not imputed to us provided four conditions are verified, namely:

• That we do not wish the evil effects, but make all reasonable efforts to avoid them;
• That the immediate effect be good in itself;
• That the evil is not made a means to obtain the good effect; for this would be to do evil that good might come of it — a procedure never allowed;
• That the good effect be as important at least as the evil effect.

All four conditions may be verified in treating or operating on a woman with child. The death of the child is not intended, and every reasonable precaution is taken to save its life; the immediate effect intended, the mother's life, is good — no harm is done to the child in order to save the mother — the saving of the mother's life is in itself as good as the saving of the child's life.

According to the church, this woman should have been granted surgery to save her life, even though it would have an 'evil effect' on the unborn child. The hospital or doctor involved was in error.

[jafar00]

As would be allowed by the church under the circumstances in this case.

http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/01046b.htm

According to the church, this woman should have been granted surgery to save her life, even though it would have an 'evil effect' on the unborn child. The hospital or doctor involved was in error.

Thanks for the clarification.

[Kathianne]

As would be allowed by the church under the circumstances in this case.

http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/01046b.htm

According to the church, this woman should have been granted surgery to save her life, even though it would have an 'evil effect' on the unborn child. The hospital or doctor involved was in error.

Thank you for reiterating what I said earlier. None of this was in line with Church teachings, nor are those 'new' teachings. Was true 50 years ago too.

[Kathianne]

It's tragic.
But as Kathianne points out the life of the mother is an universally accepted exception in Christian teachings. Looks like a case where the law goes farther than the Church.

As tragic as the case is, i doubt it happens at the UK abortion rate of 500+ per day.

Maybe those deaths will make the news again too.

Not commonly understood is that 'rape' too falls under a time compelling 'loop hole' for want of a better term. If a woman calls in a rape and is immediately taken to a Catholic hospital or goes to hospital on her own and it's probable a rape occurred, after doing the rape kit, a D & C will be performed. Since conception cannot be verified or assumed, they will make sure it cannot occur.

[Kathianne]

I assume that most if not all are familiar with the Hyde Amendment of days gone by? In spite of his 'youthful transgressions' he was very Catholic, which led to his charge for this amendment. Exceptions to the rule: rape, incest, physical health of the mother. In line with Church teachings.

[jafar00]

As a side note. Does the Catholic church have a similar abortion dispensation as in Islam where an abortion is allowed as long as it is performed before the soul is breathed into the fetus? This is 120 days according to Islamic sources.

[Kathianne]

As a side note. Does the Catholic church have a similar abortion dispensation as in Islam where an abortion is allowed as long as it is performed before the soul is breathed into the fetus? This is 120 days according to Islamic sources.

Never heard that one. That would be at near 4 months.