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  1. #1
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    Default Should he get the medal of honor?

    Or is Panetta right in not overturning the decision? Maybe the military folks can read between the lines better than myself?

    Defense Secretary Leon E. Panetta has denied the Navy’s request to give Sgt. Rafael Peralta the Medal of Honor, with the Pentagon telling the Marine hero’s family they were reluctant to overturn a previous secretary’s decision.

    Peralta died in Fallujah, Iraq, in 2004 while smothering a grenade, saving the lives of the other marines in his squad. Those Marines said Peralta, who’d been shot in the head, scooped the grenade into himself to absorb the blast.

    Icela Donald, Peralta’s sister, said the decision was a disappointment — compounded by the lack of a good reason. She said they were told one overriding factor was Mr. Panetta’s reluctance to overturn the decision of former Secretary Robert M. Gates, who had denied the request for the Medal of Honor four years ago.

    “That right there just truly made it even worse,” she said. “It’s not that they don’t want to do the right thing, it’s that they don’t want to turn over someone else’s decision.”

    A Pentagon spokeswoman didn’t immediately respond to a message seeking comment.

    In denying the medal before, the Pentagon had questioned the reliability of eyewitnesses, who said Peralta scooped the grenade to him, but disagreed on details such as which hand he had used.

    The Pentagon had also pointed to autopsy data that suggested he was likely dead, and probably blinded, from the gunshot to his head, which meant he could not have voluntarily scooped the grenade to him.

    “There is no way to reconcile differences in forensic evidence and conflicting testimony of Marines involved,” the Pentagon report said, but it concluded that the forensic evidence created enough “margin of doubt” that the medal could not be issued.
    http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/...dived-grenade/
    “You know the world is going crazy when the best rapper is a white guy, the best golfer is a black guy, the tallest guy in the NBA is Chinese, the Swiss hold the America's Cup, France is accusing the U.S. of arrogance, Germany doesn't want to go to war, and the three most powerful men in America are named "Bush", "Dick", and "Colin." Need I say more?” - Chris Rock

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    Quote Originally Posted by jimnyc View Post
    Or is Panetta right in not overturning the decision? Maybe the military folks can read between the lines better than myself?



    http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/...dived-grenade/
    Surely they can determine weather or not he was over the grenade or not, if so the rest is BS
    Christian Democrat has become an oxymoron

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    I don't understand why he was turned down for the MOH in the first place. Certainly there are witnesses to this heroic act.
    A wounded soldier throwing himself on a grenade certainly fits the qualifications as I understand them.

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    Default I think to make a judgement, one must read the combat report

    I dunno but I tend to think that Robert Gates would have loved to give the family a MOH. Probably he studied the combat report for many days prior to deciding there were questions not answered. MOH should only go to the person with the utmost valor and courage in combat.

    Many heros I am told don't get any medal. What is not mentioned is if this marine got a medal of any sort? Having been in the Army during peace of course in no way makes me an expert on this thing. I admit over many years I have read the write ups for a lot of MOH winners.

    Seems to me some got the MOH for about the same thing in various wars.

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    Sounds pretty disgusting to me. Hearing how some people sitting behind desks in the Safety of Washington DC, get to decide WHAT DEGREE, and WHICH HAND a MARINE used to protect his fellow Marines. Even to the point of questioning whether he was DECEASED...BEFORE the grenade WENT OFF????

    Now. Would someone please tell me this.

    How can a President who was in office LESS than half a year...Get a NOBEL PRIZE...and everyone celebrates, adores, and even makes him appear to be a MESSIAH. While an American in Uniform, and his family are told...HIS DEATH DURING BATTLE wasn't worthy of an Award??

    This entire country, and the people running it are NOTHING BUT CRAP, AND FULL OF SHIT!

    And I don't care WHO doesn't like it, or disagree's with it.

    OUR NATION IS BECOMING LOWER THAN WHALE SHIT. And the people responsible are HAPPY to EAT SHIT!
    I love to make Liberals Cry, and Whine.
    So, this is for them.
    GOD BLESS AMERICA - IN GOD WE TRUST !

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    Quote Originally Posted by Larrymc View Post
    Surely they can determine weather or not he was over the grenade or not, if so the rest is BS
    Quote Originally Posted by gabosaurus View Post
    I don't understand why he was turned down for the MOH in the first place. Certainly there are witnesses to this heroic act.
    A wounded soldier throwing himself on a grenade certainly fits the qualifications as I understand them.
    Did you two miss the last part?

    Quote Originally Posted by jimnyc View Post
    “There is no way to reconcile differences in forensic evidence and conflicting testimony of Marines involved,” the Pentagon report said, but it concluded that the forensic evidence created enough “margin of doubt” that the medal could not be issued.
    http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/...dived-grenade/
    Quote Originally Posted by aboutime View Post
    Sounds pretty disgusting to me. Hearing how some people sitting behind desks in the Safety of Washington DC, get to decide WHAT DEGREE, and WHICH HAND a MARINE used to protect his fellow Marines. Even to the point of questioning whether he was DECEASED...BEFORE the grenade WENT OFF????

    Now. Would someone please tell me this.

    How can a President who was in office LESS than half a year...Get a NOBEL PRIZE...and everyone celebrates, adores, and even makes him appear to be a MESSIAH. While an American in Uniform, and his family are told...HIS DEATH DURING BATTLE wasn't worthy of an Award??

    This entire country, and the people running it are NOTHING BUT CRAP, AND FULL OF SHIT!

    And I don't care WHO doesn't like it, or disagree's with it.

    OUR NATION IS BECOMING LOWER THAN WHALE SHIT. And the people responsible are HAPPY to EAT SHIT!
    What in thee F' are you talking about? Panetta is following precedent and not overturning a Bush appointee's decision.
    "when socialism fails, blame capitalism and demand more socialism." - A friend
    "You know the difference between libs and right-wingers? Libs STFU when evidence refutes their false beliefs." - Another friend
    “Don't waste your time with explanations: people only hear what they want to hear.” - Paulo Coelho


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    Quote Originally Posted by Larrymc View Post
    Surely they can determine weather or not he was over the grenade or not, if so the rest is BS


    Sergeant Rafael Peralta (April 7, 1979–November 15, 2004) assigned to 1st Battalion, 3rd Marine Regiment, 3rd Marine Division, III Marine Expeditionary Force, Marine Corps Base Hawaii, was a United States Marine killed in combat during Second Battle of Fallujah in the city of Fallujah, Iraq. In September 2008, his family was notified that he was awarded the Navy Cross, the second highest award a United States Marine can receive.[1]
    Hmmmmmm, Navy Cross.

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    Quote Originally Posted by fj1200 View Post
    did you two miss the last part?





    What in thee f' are you talking about? Panetta is following precedent and not overturning a bush appointee's decision.

    kma.
    I love to make Liberals Cry, and Whine.
    So, this is for them.
    GOD BLESS AMERICA - IN GOD WE TRUST !

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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert A Whit View Post
    Hmmmmmm, Navy Cross.
    Awarding the MoH is a serious undertaking. Actions meriting such an award are so far above and beyond the normal human endeavor in war (as well they should be) that few are ever awarded the MoH. The Navy Cross is also a very high honor (the second highest one can receive). The fact that this particular serviceman was NOT awarded the MoH is NOT a denigration of his actions nor should it be viewed that way. The guy was a hero, plain and simple. Just as some feel desk jockeys in Washigton have no right to determine who receives what award, I have to point out that the families of military personnel are even less qualified to determine who receives what award. It is indeed tragic that a soldier has to sacrifice his life to receive an award; it is only natural that the soldier's family feel he deserves the highest honor a nation can bestow on a soldier; however, the fact is that not every soldier's death (whether through heroic action or not) merits the MoH.

    As has been pointed out already, many heroes are never awarded ANYTHING for their actions. That does not diminish their selfless sacrifice or courage or anything else. That, my friends, is why combat veterans deserve your respect. You just do not KNOW what actions they have performed and the rows of ribbons on their chest don't always tell the whole story. That they were there at all speaks volumes. For those of you that despise all things military, you will NEVER understand but for those of us who have been there and done that it is very clear. My sympathies to this hero's family and friends. I am willing to bet that they would burn every medal and ribbon that soldier received to have him back in their loving arms (alive if not whole) including the MoH.
    I predict future happiness for Americans if they can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them.
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    Quote Originally Posted by CSM View Post
    Awarding the MoH is a serious undertaking. Actions meriting such an award are so far above and beyond the normal human endeavor in war (as well they should be) that few are ever awarded the MoH. The Navy Cross is also a very high honor (the second highest one can receive). The fact that this particular serviceman was NOT awarded the MoH is NOT a denigration of his actions nor should it be viewed that way. The guy was a hero, plain and simple. Just as some feel desk jockeys in Washigton have no right to determine who receives what award, I have to point out that the families of military personnel are even less qualified to determine who receives what award. It is indeed tragic that a soldier has to sacrifice his life to receive an award; it is only natural that the soldier's family feel he deserves the highest honor a nation can bestow on a soldier; however, the fact is that not every soldier's death (whether through heroic action or not) merits the MoH.

    As has been pointed out already, many heroes are never awarded ANYTHING for their actions. That does not diminish their selfless sacrifice or courage or anything else. That, my friends, is why combat veterans deserve your respect. You just do not KNOW what actions they have performed and the rows of ribbons on their chest don't always tell the whole story. That they were there at all speaks volumes. For those of you that despise all things military, you will NEVER understand but for those of us who have been there and done that it is very clear. My sympathies to this hero's family and friends. I am willing to bet that they would burn every medal and ribbon that soldier received to have him back in their loving arms (alive if not whole) including the MoH.
    CSM - I'm tellin' ya...you bring amazing perspective. Very glad you replied.
    “… the greatest detractor from high performance is fear: fear that you are not prepared, fear that you are in over your head, fear that you are not worthy, and ultimately, fear of failure. If you can eliminate that fear—not through arrogance or just wishing difficulties away, but through hard work and preparation—you will put yourself in an incredibly powerful position to take on the challenges you face" - Pete Carroll.

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    Quote Originally Posted by dmp View Post
    CSM - I'm tellin' ya...you bring amazing perspective. Very glad you replied.
    Truthfully, I detest those circumstances when the media (or anyone else) tries to make a political statement over soemthing like this. I have served with MANY heroes whose actions were deserving of high honor and received zilch. That does not mean that anyone was at fault or that the actions did not happen. They were still heroes; they are or were unrecognized but heroes nonetheless. Any family that loses a loved one knows damn well that all the medals and ribons in the world will not replace the loved one lost. All in all, I bet every last one of them would rather have their loved one back and damn the honors.
    I predict future happiness for Americans if they can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them.
    Thomas Jefferson


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    Quote Originally Posted by dmp View Post
    CSM - I'm tellin' ya...you bring amazing perspective. Very glad you replied.
    I had logged out to run a quick errand and came back started reading this thread
    . DECIDED TO LOG BACK IN TO POST EXACTLY WHAT YOU JUST SAID ABOUT CSM'S BRILLIANT POST.
    NOW I SAY BRAVO TO YOU BOTH FOR YOUR SERVICE AND YOUR INSIGHT. -TYR
    18 U.S. Code § 2381-Treason Whoever, owing allegiance to the United States, levies war against them or adheres to their enemies, giving them aid and comfort within the United States or elsewhere, is guilty of treason and shall suffer death, or shall be imprisoned not less than five years and fined under this title but not less than $10,000; and shall be incapable of holding any office under the United States.

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    I think what should matter is if the soldiers that survived feel he went to extraordinary lengths to save their lives. Their input should weigh more than any forensic evidence.
    If the freedom of speech is taken away
    then dumb and silent we may be led,
    like sheep to the slaughter.


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    Quote Originally Posted by SassyLady View Post
    I think what should matter is if the soldiers that survived feel he went to extraordinary lengths to save their lives. Their input should weigh more than any forensic evidence.
    Submissions and recommendations for any such type of award are indeed heavily reliant on witnesses and their input. Forensic evidence is also a consideration and does have an impact to some extent. I know that sometimes an individual is recommended for an award/ribbon/medal and, as it goes throught the chain of command, it gets upgraded/downgraded or dismissed at some review level. It is a double edged sword as the review process can be somewhat subjective (dependent upon the reviewer) but on the other hand it does help prevent a bunch of soldiers from fabricating a circumstance in which someone gets an award for something they really did not do. Overall, it is my opinion that the process is fair far more often than not. There are exceptions of course, where someone gets bestowed an honor which some may consider the individual unworthy and conversely where an individual does not receive that which he is surely due but that is rare. Like I stated earlier, the rows of medals and ribbons don't always tell the full story.
    I predict future happiness for Americans if they can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them.
    Thomas Jefferson


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    Quote Originally Posted by fj1200 View Post
    Did you two miss the last part?





    What in thee F' are you talking about? Panetta is following precedent and not overturning a Bush appointee's decision.
    what could forensic not determine, which hand he used, or if he was blind, like i said surly they could tell if he covered a grenade
    Christian Democrat has become an oxymoron

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