Need help with son re: homework and grades

[Kathianne]

I want to meet with his teachers perhaps and find out about what extra help I can get him in the classes he isn't doing well in, see if maybe they can help get him up to part and acceptable grades. It's simply a matter of somehow getting him to TRY and actually apply himself, and giving his schooling a higher priority.

He doesn't have a ton of friends yet, at least not a lot he may hang out with after school. Hell, his friend Liam, all they do when they get together is play video games anyway. It's all about the digital crap these days and the kids no longer want to do much. I'm trying to get him to go after some activities, at school or outside, things that will get him out of the house and also maybe make some friends.

When I was younger, my parents issue was getting me IN the house as we were always out doing something with friends. These days we want our gets OUT so that they'll be more active.

I'm just afraid that I'm not doing enough, both in helping him excel, and helping him with better habits. He's only 12, he needs a figure that is going to not only tell him to do it, but also help him get there.

Indeed, it's too easy and common for the kids to go into their 'own world' of fantasy or virtual friends. Not good. At the same time, banning them is also not likely to meet with success. However, you can make the child busy through most hours. That's the most one can do, when caught up in the problem.

[DragonStryk72]

My son is more interested in his electronics than anything else. He plays a lot of video games, but at least they aren't of the violence variety. Nonetheless, he is "addicted". Homework takes priority, but he rushes through everything in order to get to what he WANTS to do.

He got his progress report today for the second marking period and it's not too good. Mostly missing homework and not being organized.

He's a VERY smart kid and can do all of these things if he simply applied himself and took the time with his schoolwork/homework.

I am partly guilty too, as I allow him to get away with too many things, as I am a horrible disciplinarian and feel guilty about taking things away that he likes. Should I bar all of his electronics until his grades go up? Change up his routines? Right now, it's homework and such first when he gets home from school, and then he can have game time. But it's hard for me to tell if he is breezing through the things or not. Sometimes he says he has no homework, but how do I know if he is just saying that?

He's in 7th grade, and I want to get a handle on this before it snowballs into a bigger problem. He's not THAT bad, but bad enough to where I know he can do SO much better if he took his time and was organized. But part of me is afraid that if I take too much away from him or come down too harsh, that he'll be resentful instead of doing better in school. I don't think I have a choice at this point as his grades are more important than him being upset for a little while. Then when his grades improve we can find a middle ground of sorts.

But now I feel partly responsible for not pushing him harder and allowing him to have excess time for the things that are pulling him away from schoolwork.

Well, in my instance, I was much into video games as well. Don't do what my dad did and make it adversarial. It just doesn't work, just like it didn't work for me. Basically, this was the routine: Electronics taken away til grades go up. Grades go up just enough. Electronics returned, things go back to normal, fighting ensues.

I would advise using positive reinforcement. He's a gamer, and video games operate on constant positive reinforcement. Seriously, that's video games in their most basic form, is to constantly be like "way to go!", and give you something shiny for it. OOH, wait, I have a video link on this, hold up a sec:

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/MuDLw1zIc94" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Use gaming, don't fight it. Set up an achievement system, and unlocks for those achievements. As well, you could show him colleges such as Full Sail University, an accredited college for gaming pursuits, but of course, if you want to make your way in video games today, you have to study up, like with anything.

Also, there are games, both electronic and tabletop, that are both educational and fun. I mean, think about it, did you ever really want to do homework, or were you just trying to get through it so you could do other stuff and not get hassled, Jim? Your son is no different, and it doesn't take video games for kids to feel that way. We've felt that way since the invention of homework.

[Kathianne]

Well, in my instance, I was much into video games as well. Don't do what my dad did and make it adversarial. It just doesn't work, just like it didn't work for me. Basically, this was the routine: Electronics taken away til grades go up. Grades go up just enough. Electronics returned, things go back to normal, fighting ensues.

I would advise using positive reinforcement. He's a gamer, and video games operate on constant positive reinforcement. Seriously, that's video games in their most basic form, is to constantly be like "way to go!", and give you something shiny for it. OOH, wait, I have a video link on this, hold up a sec:

<iframe src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/MuDLw1zIc94" allowfullscreen="" frameborder="0" height="315" width="560"></iframe>

Use gaming, don't fight it. Set up an achievement system, and unlocks for those achievements. As well, you could show him colleges such as Full Sail University, an accredited college for gaming pursuits, but of course, if you want to make your way in video games today, you have to study up, like with anything.

Also, there are games, both electronic and tabletop, that are both educational and fun. I mean, think about it, did you ever really want to do homework, or were you just trying to get through it so you could do other stuff and not get hassled, Jim? Your son is no different, and it doesn't take video games for kids to feel that way. We've felt that way since the invention of homework.

Yep, should be a day-to-day reward and punishment. Too long, loses it's effectiveness. Besides, the goal is more responsible behavior. That's a long term goal, with daily milestones.

[DragonStryk72]

Yep, should be a day-to-day reward and punishment. Too long, loses it's effectiveness. Besides, the goal is more responsible behavior. That's a long term goal, with daily milestones.

I like having a long-term goal that I'm aiming for, but with various short-term accomplishments. It keeps me focused on the end goal by reinforcing it along the way.

[Marcus Aurelius]

My son is more interested in his electronics than anything else. He plays a lot of video games, but at least they aren't of the violence variety. Nonetheless, he is "addicted". Homework takes priority, but he rushes through everything in order to get to what he WANTS to do.

He got his progress report today for the second marking period and it's not too good. Mostly missing homework and not being organized.

He's a VERY smart kid and can do all of these things if he simply applied himself and took the time with his schoolwork/homework.

I am partly guilty too, as I allow him to get away with too many things, as I am a horrible disciplinarian and feel guilty about taking things away that he likes. Should I bar all of his electronics until his grades go up? Change up his routines? Right now, it's homework and such first when he gets home from school, and then he can have game time. But it's hard for me to tell if he is breezing through the things or not. Sometimes he says he has no homework, but how do I know if he is just saying that?

He's in 7th grade, and I want to get a handle on this before it snowballs into a bigger problem. He's not THAT bad, but bad enough to where I know he can do SO much better if he took his time and was organized. But part of me is afraid that if I take too much away from him or come down too harsh, that he'll be resentful instead of doing better in school. I don't think I have a choice at this point as his grades are more important than him being upset for a little while. Then when his grades improve we can find a middle ground of sorts.

But now I feel partly responsible for not pushing him harder and allowing him to have excess time for the things that are pulling him away from schoolwork.

sounds a lot like my son prior to his Asperger's diagnosis in 4th grade. His old school in NJ paid for the medical evaluation, and once we had an official diagnosis, his new school system here with me in PA (started here in 5th grade) worked with me to set up an IEP and it's been a God-send. He's made the Honor Roll ever since, and his social skills are continually improving.

If you'd like to discuss, PM me.

[Robert A Whit]

I like having a long-term goal that I'm aiming for, but with various short-term accomplishments. It keeps me focused on the end goal by reinforcing it along the way.

That is a very very good tactic.

All of us can improve our lives by setting long term goals and doing what you stated. I suggest monthly rewards for accomplishment.

To reach the top the salesman force in an office, I set my goal that was realistic yet took a lot of work. And if I did not meet the goal, no reward. When I reached the goal, something to satisfy myself would be what I got. Surprising results. Often the thing i would reward myself with was not very expensive. Also, this can include something for the loved ones. A reward that way won't seem selfish. If they know why they got the reward, they may help you stay on course.

Maybe Jim can try some variation of this idea for his son. He is creative enough to figure out something that might help him.

[Missileman]

My son is more interested in his electronics than anything else. He plays a lot of video games, but at least they aren't of the violence variety. Nonetheless, he is "addicted". Homework takes priority, but he rushes through everything in order to get to what he WANTS to do.

He got his progress report today for the second marking period and it's not too good. Mostly missing homework and not being organized.

He's a VERY smart kid and can do all of these things if he simply applied himself and took the time with his schoolwork/homework.

I am partly guilty too, as I allow him to get away with too many things, as I am a horrible disciplinarian and feel guilty about taking things away that he likes. Should I bar all of his electronics until his grades go up? Change up his routines? Right now, it's homework and such first when he gets home from school, and then he can have game time. But it's hard for me to tell if he is breezing through the things or not. Sometimes he says he has no homework, but how do I know if he is just saying that?

He's in 7th grade, and I want to get a handle on this before it snowballs into a bigger problem. He's not THAT bad, but bad enough to where I know he can do SO much better if he took his time and was organized. But part of me is afraid that if I take too much away from him or come down too harsh, that he'll be resentful instead of doing better in school. I don't think I have a choice at this point as his grades are more important than him being upset for a little while. Then when his grades improve we can find a middle ground of sorts.

But now I feel partly responsible for not pushing him harder and allowing him to have excess time for the things that are pulling him away from schoolwork.

You need to make what he WANTS to do a privilege that is earned by doing well on the reports. I would take those privileges away until there's improvement. Make it perfectly clear that whether he gets game time is entirely up to him. If he chooses to slack off, there will be consequences and that is a valuable lesson.

[jimnyc]

Thank you guys/gals for all the great tips and advice. Sometimes I think we really know what it is we need to do, but it somehow becomes clearer when you hear it from others.

My wife has already made a weekly calendar spelling out what he "should" be doing and what is expected of him daily. His allowance to do what he wants will be based on how successful he's been in staying within the calendar. It's funny in a way, because he tells his counselor at school that he NEEDS someone to take the games away from him, to set limitations - but then when we, the parents, try to do that he loses his little mind like we are psychopathic parents! LOL I don't know why I feel so guilty at times about what is known in most part as "parenting". And I LOVE my Dad for the punishment and lessons I've learned the hard way. But now it's my turn and I have trouble being the bad guy, even though I know it's the right way and path.

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

Thank you guys/gals for all the great tips and advice. Sometimes I think we really know what it is we need to do, but it somehow becomes clearer when you hear it from others.

My wife has already made a weekly calendar spelling out what he "should" be doing and what is expected of him daily. His allowance to do what he wants will be based on how successful he's been in staying within the calendar. It's funny in a way, because he tells his counselor at school that he NEEDS someone to take the games away from him, to set limitations - but then when we, the parents, try to do that he loses his little mind like we are psychopathic parents! LOL I don't know why I feel so guilty at times about what is known in most part as "parenting". And I LOVE my Dad for the punishment and lessons I've learned the hard way. But now it's my turn and I have trouble being the bad guy, even though I know it's the right way and path.

Jim its your honor and your duty as the dad to be a bad guy when appropriate. I look back on the lessons my dad taught me with good spankings and admire him for the love he had for all his 11 children. I was mean as a snake and tough as nails ! He was never unfair and never gave me a spanking that I didn't ever so richly deserve. As far as studying he made such a big deal out of our getting good grades that we all pushed like hell to do so except me and my older brother Jessie. It was such a piece of cake we both were always a few years ahead in our school work. He was advanced 2 grades and they wanted to advance me 2 grades but decided not because of the fighting my older brother had went through when he was advanced. It was so very easy and we were so very lazy but for others it took dedication--I admire them much more.. like my older sister Judy that worked at it so very hard and succeeded
As long as you push your son to do better because you love him its the right path IMHO. Certainly so when he knows why you do it!! A father's love is unconquerable.. --Tyr

[Kathianne]

Thank you guys/gals for all the great tips and advice. Sometimes I think we really know what it is we need to do, but it somehow becomes clearer when you hear it from others.

My wife has already made a weekly calendar spelling out what he "should" be doing and what is expected of him daily. His allowance to do what he wants will be based on how successful he's been in staying within the calendar. It's funny in a way, because he tells his counselor at school that he NEEDS someone to take the games away from him, to set limitations - but then when we, the parents, try to do that he loses his little mind like we are psychopathic parents! LOL I don't know why I feel so guilty at times about what is known in most part as "parenting". And I LOVE my Dad for the punishment and lessons I've learned the hard way. But now it's my turn and I have trouble being the bad guy, even though I know it's the right way and path.

I'd listen to what he's telling the counselor at school, at least for withdrawal of privileges. The careful thing is not too go overboard in anger and say, "You're off electronics for the rest of the week!" Unless it's Friday, good luck with that. However saying, "You didn't do your homework at agreed upon time," or "You didn't write down all of your assignments, so we had to hunt for them," Or "You rushed through these assignments and we know you can do better, finish up and you can read until 9, but no phone, no computer, no Ipad."

Action, reason and consequence all come in quick time frame.

Now if his allowance is a bigger deal, good plan.

[jimnyc]

I cut out the fighting and moved here if anyone wants to continue: http://www.debatepolicy.com/showthre...omework-grades

[Kathianne]

Jim, I thank you for removing the problem posts, including my own. Just came across this, while reading all of Jacoby's 'letters to his son.' You certainly aren't the first, (i.e., everyone just about), to go through a trial with their beloved child. If you go to the link, you'll see this is the first, after 8 years of relatively 'no problems.' I've already noticed he stopped the yearly letters in 2009, probably due to son's reasonable request:

http://www.jeffjacoby.com/5262/where...r-sweet-boy-go

My beloved Caleb,


I used to think I had this fatherhood thing down pat. For your first five or six years, you were such a charming and lovable kid -- friendly, bright, cheerful, affectionate -- that I imagined Mama and I must be doing everything right. I figured we were natural born parents, the way other people are natural born pianists or natural born first basemen.


But then -- quite to my surprise -- the sweet and lively Caleb we were so pleased to take all the credit for was abducted by aliens and replaced with a sulky, sarcastic grouch we didn't recognize. Over the course of the past year, Mama and I have repeatedly found ourselves wondering: Who are you, and what have you done with our son?


OK, maybe that's putting it a little strongly. You're still a terrific child, and most of the time it's a joy to be your father. I'm delighted by your interests and enthusiasms, from your voracious reading to your strength as a swimmer. It's great that you're still innocent enough to enjoy a "Winnie the Pooh" movie, yet sophisticated enough to play chess and make up crossword puzzles.

I savor the moments we spend learning together. I like the fact that you still ask for a story almost every time we go for a walk.


Most wonderful of all this past year has been watching you get the hang of your new role as a big brother. When we adopted Micah a year ago, there was no way to know how you would react to the presence of a sibling. I can't tell you how happy it makes us to see what a devoted, generous brother you've become. I love how willingly you play with Micah and how readily you make him laugh -- and judging from his eagerness to be with you, he obviously loves it too.


But as splendid as you so often are, Caleb, you can also be quite awful. At times your manner is shockingly disrespectful. You mimic Mama and make faces when I scold you. You respond to criticism by laughing or rolling your eyes, or you mutter "Whatever" with all the disdain at your command. You get surly or angry and snap at us rudely -- you've even written poison-pencil notes and left them for us to find ("I hate you. You're a bad mother.") If I didn't know you had just turned 8, I'd think you were going on 14. Behavior like this I wasn't expecting till you hit adolescence. If this is the way you act in second grade, what are you going to be like in high school?


I wish I knew what was causing this acting out. Is it a subconscious reaction to the arrival of your brother? The bad influence of certain kids in school? An unavoidable symptom of belonging to the species homo sapiens? All three, I suppose. Especially the last. As one experienced mother -- mine -- likes to say, children don't have to be taught how to hit, bite, lie, sneak, or talk back. They have to be taught not to.


And that, I am realizing much more vividly than I used to, is easier said than done.


When I was your age, discipline consisted mostly of spanking and the threat of being spanked, and on the whole I'd say that my siblings and I turned out all right. But I've discovered that I really don't like hitting as a form of punishment -- lashing out in anger makes me feel like a bully, and it doesn't feel good to bully someone I love. I don't want you to grow up in fear, behaving well only because you're afraid of getting hurt if you don't. Nor do I want you to learn from my example that the way to express anger is to hurt someone else.


But Mama and I do want you to learn that bad behavior leads to bad consequences -- just as we often use incentives and rewards to teach you that good behavior leads to good consequences. So we cast about for more effective forms of discipline. When you insult a teacher or a babysitter, we make you write a letter of apology. When you act crudely at mealtime, we send you away from the table. For other offenses you've had to write punishment sentences, or lost the use of a toy, or been sent to bed 30 minutes early. Once, appalled to learn that you had punched and hurt a girl in your class, we invoked the "nuclear option" -- one week of not being allowed to read for pleasure. It felt sacrilegious to use reading in that way, but you haven't hit anyone since.


When I was 8, it was obvious to me that discipline fell hardest on the one being disciplined. Now that I'm the father of an 8-year-old, I know better. It's tough to be punished, but it's much tougher to punish wisely -- strongly enough to correct, gently enough to do no harm. You don't understand what I mean? Believe me, Caleb, one day you will.


All my love,
Papa

[jimnyc]

That was like reading a letter I wrote myself, only intelligently!

[Kathianne]

That was like reading a letter I wrote myself, only intelligently!

Indeed. Works for moms too, even when 'no longer going through the angst!' Trust me, do your best. That's all anyone can do. You'll all figure it out. When I can, I'll offer my 'teacherly advice,' lord knows I made many mistakes as a parent.

Good news is, with all of the mistakes, the kids are fine! LOL! All in loving relationships, gainfully employed, with the diplomas. LOL! Actually, if they were 18, I wouldn't be so hepped on the diplomas, though for them they needed.

Times have changed, even from 2004, when my youngest graduated hs.

[Robert A Whit]

Well Jim, though I did not provoke a fight, it sure came to me. But I too thank you for moving the fight to some other thread.

I think by now you got enough ideas to fill your Xmas stocking with good will.

Hope things work out for you and your son.

Note to all.

Do not pick a fight with me and you will NEVER be in one.