Need help with son re: homework and grades

[tailfins]

Thank you guys/gals for all the great tips and advice. Sometimes I think we really know what it is we need to do, but it somehow becomes clearer when you hear it from others.

My wife has already made a weekly calendar spelling out what he "should" be doing and what is expected of him daily. His allowance to do what he wants will be based on how successful he's been in staying within the calendar. It's funny in a way, because he tells his counselor at school that he NEEDS someone to take the games away from him, to set limitations - but then when we, the parents, try to do that he loses his little mind like we are psychopathic parents! LOL I don't know why I feel so guilty at times about what is known in most part as "parenting". And I LOVE my Dad for the punishment and lessons I've learned the hard way. But now it's my turn and I have trouble being the bad guy, even though I know it's the right way and path.

The more stoic you are when laying down the law the better. There's no need to turn up the temperature. When my wife hands down a punishment she gets more of a fight than when I hand out a similar punishment. I'm more monotone and emotionless about it.

[jimnyc]

Well Jim, though I did not provoke a fight, it sure came to me. But I too thank you for moving the fight to some other thread.

I think by now you got enough ideas to fill your Xmas stocking with good will.

Hope things work out for you and your son.

Note to all.

Do not pick a fight with me and you will NEVER be in one.

Robert, this thread was cleaned up and the talk of fights moved. If you want to discuss that, please take it to that new thread.

[Kathianne]

The more stoic you are when laying down the law the better. There's no need to turn up the temperature. When my wife hands down a punishment she gets more of a fight than when I hand out a similar punishment. I'm more monotone and emotionless about it.

I think you are probably correct, especially with boys. State what they did, what the punishment is, be done. They get that.

[Kathianne]

Thank you guys/gals for all the great tips and advice. Sometimes I think we really know what it is we need to do, but it somehow becomes clearer when you hear it from others.

My wife has already made a weekly calendar spelling out what he "should" be doing and what is expected of him daily. His allowance to do what he wants will be based on how successful he's been in staying within the calendar. It's funny in a way, because he tells his counselor at school that he NEEDS someone to take the games away from him, to set limitations - but then when we, the parents, try to do that he loses his little mind like we are psychopathic parents! LOL I don't know why I feel so guilty at times about what is known in most part as "parenting". And I LOVE my Dad for the punishment and lessons I've learned the hard way. But now it's my turn and I have trouble being the bad guy, even though I know it's the right way and path.

There's something to what you posted here. Me? I'm not keen on corporal punishment, though I learned to administer to my youngest, via a pediatric psychiatrist. We 'started with restraint hold,' moved down to paddling.

Being me, I'd listen to 'the expert' rather than folks I knew and trusted on most things. That kid was out of control, from 2-12. Lots of reasons, none of which excuse the craziness of the behavior. I was lucky with the shrink, without it the kid likely would have been incarcerated by now. His behaviors were extreme.

Still I'd never advocate for corporal punishment, certainly not for above 4th grade.

Just keep in mind that kids will 'fight' any punishment, heck any rules; but that doesn't mean they don't want them, they know they need them. I've yet to see a 'thank you' to parents that gave kids unlimited freedom to mess up. Have seen countless of parents that 'knocked them sideways,' (I doubt that was absolute recall or at the very least, common). More still for 'parents that made the rules and consequences clear.'

So many criticize their parents for inconsistency and failure to care what they did, no matter how little they applied themselves or how bad their behaviors.

I guess the best idea is to keep in mind the last, when it 'bothers' you to be 'the bad guy.'

[jimnyc]

Not a bad start at change today. He stayed after school for 35 minutes with his teacher for extra help with Chinese. I am having him do this as well with Math and English too, at least till he's back on track. Chinese he really needs the help with. The other 2 are both listed as 70-79 range so far, and I know he can improve. His other classes are all between 80-100.

Once he came home it was straight to his desk to hit the books. He had a math sheet, an English sheet, 16 flash cards to be made - and reading which he does later. I stayed around in case he needed help and had to check off on all of his homework to make sure it's satisfactory. Every day will be like this, with time at school, and extra time beyond his HW at home to study as well. With his efforts will come his "free time" which will have been earned. I'm hoping he'll be happy with his improvement and encouragement - and then this process will get easier.

[Kathianne]

Not a bad start at change today. He stayed after school for 35 minutes with his teacher for extra help with Chinese. I am having him do this as well with Math and English too, at least till he's back on track. Chinese he really needs the help with. The other 2 are both listed as 70-79 range so far, and I know he can improve. His other classes are all between 80-100.

Once he came home it was straight to his desk to hit the books. He had a math sheet, an English sheet, 16 flash cards to be made - and reading which he does later. I stayed around in case he needed help and had to check off on all of his homework to make sure it's satisfactory. Every day will be like this, with time at school, and extra time beyond his HW at home to study as well. With his efforts will come his "free time" which will have been earned. I'm hoping he'll be happy with his improvement and encouragement - and then this process will get easier.

Great start! Now of course tomorrow starts winter break! LOL! Sigh for you. If you can, have him bring home books for break. Help him review a few past chapters in Chinese-perhaps giving you lessons. Same with math and English, but find the novel-tell him you want to 'catch up' to where he is. Then discuss. He'll appreciate that and really listen to his comments. Compliment whenever possible. Throw in a few 'not so honest as to incriminate', but honest stories of how he's 'ahead of where you were at his age. How proud of him you are.

Far more comes from compliments than criticisms. However, truly deserved criticisms are appreciated, especially when coupled with, "How advanced you really are, why mess up?"

The bolded above is very important, odds are he doesn't need you, that you care to be ready to drop whatever to be there? Priceless for him.

One word, give him a chance to decompress on coming home, maybe 15 minutes for a snack and some BS with you or mom. Then hit the books. The life of Middle schooler is not an easy one.

[jimnyc]

Great start! Now of course tomorrow starts winter break! LOL! Sigh for you. If you can, have him bring home books for break. Help him review a few past chapters in Chinese-perhaps giving you lessons. Same with math and English, but find the novel-tell him you want to 'catch up' to where he is. Then discuss. He'll appreciate that and really listen to his comments. Compliment whenever possible. Throw in a few 'not so honest as to incriminate', but honest stories of how he's 'ahead of where you were at his age. How proud of him you are.

Far more comes from compliments than criticisms. However, truly deserved criticisms are appreciated, especially when coupled with, "How advanced you really are, why mess up?"

The bolded above is very important, odds are he doesn't need you, that you care to be ready to drop whatever to be there? Priceless for him.

One word, give him a chance to decompress on coming home, maybe 15 minutes for a snack and some BS with you or mom. Then hit the books. The life of Middle schooler is not an easy one.

Bringing home the books is a good idea. I think he'll have HW time throughout, only it will be utilized for studying his troubling classes, and we will help of course. This should be easier as the days will be longer and he'll still have free time. I'm more than willing to help him every step of the way. I don't want to be intrusive, but at the same time give him the feeling that it's not so bad and that he's not alone.

[Kathianne]

Bringing home the books is a good idea. I think he'll have HW time throughout, only it will be utilized for studying his troubling classes, and we will help of course. This should be easier as the days will be longer and he'll still have free time. I'm more than willing to help him every step of the way. I don't want to be intrusive, but at the same time give him the feeling that it's not so bad and that he's not alone.

An idea, don't know how well it will work. Tell him you expect at least an hour to an hour and a half of study time each day, except for Christmas and New Years. Can he write out what he needs most work on? Tell him all things need to be reviewed, as if he were in high school, he'd likely be returning to 'mid-terms.' Concentrate on weak areas, but review all.

This is going to suck, but middle schoolers really are trying to be independent, while being shockingly self-aware of how much they need guidance and they want that from their parents. Sooo, if you or your wife or both can say, "Honey, this, this and this mom will review with." "This, this and this, I will." Better yet, allow him to teach each of you what he's learned. Picking up a bit of Chinese or reviewing "Pride and Prejudice" will not be a hardship and may bring you closer.

Don't forget to make time shortly after for a snowball fight or making cookies. Both the school work and what you follow up with will build the memories that he'll cherish. This could be his 'Christmas of awakening.'

[jimnyc]

All excellent ideas, Kath. It means a lot to me. There are times I feel so totally lost on the issue. This is my first and only, and likely last, so I'm hoping to steer him right!

[PostmodernProphet]

I am a horrible disciplinarian and feel guilty about taking things away that he likes.

you don't need help......you've already identified the problem.....

[aboutime]

I'm think this: right now his homework takes priority right after school and nothing else can be done until its done. He skips homework and rushes through what he does do to get to play time. I'm thinking of making 7:30 or 8pm homework time. It all gets done and all gets inspected by myself or the wifey. When satisfied it's done, it's shower time, maybe a few minutes of TV or his kindle for reading. But nothing after the homework to make him want to rush.

jimnyc. Personally. Since I was away, or overseas while our two son's grew up, and became teenagers. My wife had the bulk of the parenting as Both Father, and Mother.

Of course. Our son's grew up PRIOR to all of the electronic devices of today. But she made certain, during the school year. They did their homework when they got home, and before dinner since the school day's were long, and they were tired if they waited too long.
As for your son and his video games.
That decision should be yours, NOT HIS. As his Dad. You make the decisions for him. Not the other way around.
If you want to be just friends with your son. That is not the same as being a Father.
Respect for you comes from his need to look to you to make the choices he isn't prepared to always make.
Kids of all ages prefer the easy way out. And that doesn't include doing homework.

Obviously. I would suggest you be in contact with his teachers. Maybe there is something holding him down, and they should be able to help you with that.

I remember how my father demanded...when I had so many problems with Math...like the TIMES TABLES. He made me WRITE....longhand...all of them from 1 times 1 thru 12 times 12...and all of that was before being able to watch any tv...and that was the late 50's, and early 60's.
I know it was long ago. But I can still remember those YELLOW LEGAL PADS with all of my writing on them. And I did learn.

Be more of a GOOD DAD, and don't worry about being his friend. That is only a threat to you if you both Don't Love Each Other.

[Kathianne]

Not just for Jim. I've taught middle school for 11 years. High school only part-time for two years, but subbing mainly for 3.

I'm ready to move onto high school if I can find a position, mostly due to subject matter interest, yes, I like the age. High school students for teachers are for the most part, 'content orientated.' They want what you can teach or they don't. They aren't in the main looking for 'mom' or 'dad', they are pretty autonomous, at least from 10th grade. Oh, there are always a few, but they are few.

Middle school? Yes, one needs to know their subject area, which is why it's 'secondary education.' However, for the main, it's teaching the student how to learn and cope with what's coming. When I teach Constitution at middle school, it's about responsibility and independence. At the high school level it becomes civics and philosophy.

While I do like high school students, I really do. I love middle school students! Unlike their parents, we don't have the issues of 'pulling away,' while still being, 'needy.' No, middle school students for the most part see their teachers as 'getting them,' in a way they think their parents fail to, at least to a degree. They see 'us' as willing to let them take responsibility, but nailing them when the are irresponsible. It's much easier as a teacher, we've a grade book.

However, we've also go rubrics and 'corrections.' If your kid is a behavior issue, they will not catch all the breaks a kid with manners and ability to say, "I screwed up," will get. Believe it or not, the kids get this, the parents should also and encourage good manners and the owning up to responsibility. They go a long way. Most importantly, once mastered, the child is well on their way to being high school ready.

In short, I love middle school students. I like the content taught. I like high school students, I appreciate their independence. I find the teaching more exciting. In middle school the teaching is secondary to the child. In high school, the content is the primary issue, the students in the main are in the main psychologically ready.

[Kathianne]

jimnyc. Personally. Since I was away, or overseas while our two son's grew up, and became teenagers. My wife had the bulk of the parenting as Both Father, and Mother.

Of course. Our son's grew up PRIOR to all of the electronic devices of today. But she made certain, during the school year. They did their homework when they got home, and before dinner since the school day's were long, and they were tired if they waited too long.
As for your son and his video games.
That decision should be yours, NOT HIS. As his Dad. You make the decisions for him. Not the other way around.
If you want to be just friends with your son. That is not the same as being a Father.
Respect for you comes from his need to look to you to make the choices he isn't prepared to always make.
Kids of all ages prefer the easy way out. And that doesn't include doing homework.

Obviously. I would suggest you be in contact with his teachers. Maybe there is something holding him down, and they should be able to help you with that.

I remember how my father demanded...when I had so many problems with Math...like the TIMES TABLES. He made me WRITE....longhand...all of them from 1 times 1 thru 12 times 12...and all of that was before being able to watch any tv...and that was the late 50's, and early 60's.
I know it was long ago. But I can still remember those YELLOW LEGAL PADS with all of my writing on them. And I did learn.

Be more of a GOOD DAD, and don't worry about being his friend. That is only a threat to you if you both Don't Love Each Other.

I'm math phobic, have been since 4th grade. With that said, if there was one thing to say to 'young parents,' make sure your children have down rote: multiplication tables, addition and subtraction tables. Chemical tables, basic grammar rules. Some suggestions: 'I used with my kids', in an audio tape form: https://itunes.apple.com/us/album/ra...on/id200597387

[Robert A Whit]

Robert, this thread was cleaned up and the talk of fights moved. If you want to discuss that, please take it to that new thread.

Thank you Jim. I assure you that I know that. And if I wanted to engage in fights, I would take it elsewhere.

[Kathianne]

What adjustments is the question. Have him still do homework first, but know what it is ahead of time, and set aside time afterwards to go over it with him? Certainly makes sense. This should leave only evenings free, and we can map out a plan about game time, reading, showering and the other stuff.



He does do better on tests than his homework and organization skills show. But the overall average still brings him down. He passes by doing this, but doesn't "learn" as much as he should. And I want to instill good habits and organization in him and make him learn that "just getting by" is the wrong way to go about things.

this was me in high school. I truly regret what I could have learned. Yes, for the most part I've 'caught up' on my own, but how much further I could have been?

To the top, seems to me that when he gets home, be it 3:30 or 6:30, he needs decompressing. All kids do. 15 minutes if 3:30; Dinner and 15 if 6:30. Then homework until finished, for most kids that should be within eyes of parents, meaning kitchen or dining room table.

Supplies should be close at hand: poster boards in various colors, markers, pens, pencils, colored pencils, glue stick, calculator, dictionary, thesaurus, graph paper; etc. Parents should know the website of children's homework, whether or not the texts are online, most are.