Cash For Clunkers Hurt The Environment

[Kathianne]

More of the 'Green War On Science':

http://www.americanthinker.com/blog/...vironment.html

<!-- startprint --> January 5, 2013 Cash for Clunkers actually hurt the environment

Rick Moran
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Tell me this isn't a government operation:

Though almost a million people poured into car dealerships eager to exchange their old jalopies for something shiny and new, recent reports indicate the entire program may have actually hurt the environment far more than it helped.



According to E Magazine, the "Clunkers" program, which is officially known as the Car Allowance Rebates System (CARS), produced tons of unnecessary waste while doing little to curb greenhouse gas emissions.



The program's first mistake seems to have been its focus on car shredding, instead of car recycling. With 690,000 vehicles traded in, that's a pretty big mistake.



According to the Automotive Recyclers Association (ARA), automobiles are almost completely recyclable, down to their engine oil and brake fluid. But many of the "Cash for Clunkers" cars were never sent to recycling facilities. The agency reports that the cars' engines were instead destroyed by federal mandate, in order to prevent dealers from illicitly reselling the vehicles later.



The remaining parts of each car could then be put up for auction, but program guidelines also required that after 180 days, no matter how much of the car was left, the parts woud be sent to a junkyard and shredded.



Shredding vehicles results in its own environmental nightmare. For each ton of metal produced by a shredding facility, roughly 500 pounds of "shredding residue" is also produced, which includes polyurethane foams, metal oxides, glass and dirt. All totaled, about 4.5 million tons of that residue is already produced on average every year. Where does it go? Right into a landfill.



E Magazine states recycling just the plastic and metal alone from the CARS scraps would have saved 24 million barrels of oil. While some of the "Clunkers" were truly old, many of the almost 700,000 cars were still in perfectly good condition. In fact, many that qualified for the program were relatively "young," with fuel efficiencies that rivaled newer cars.



And though the point was to get less fuel efficient cars off the roads, with only 690,000 traded in, and over 250 million registered in the U.S., the difference in pollutant levels seems pretty negligible.

...

[SassyLady]

Is anyone really surprised about this?

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

Results don't matter. The pure intentions outweigh even backfiring catastrophic results. That is at the core of liberalism ,where ideology trumpets reality and good intentions outweigh all..
They must maintain that "unassailable fixed concept" in order to maintain their highly inflated sene of superiority!
They live for that sense of Superiority!!-TYR

Believe it or not years ago I was great friends with a very liberal co-worker. We got along splendidly and talked about even highly contentious subjects with no problem ever occurring. One day during lunch we were discussing what ifs. I brought up what if we had a civil war and it was the Conservatives fighting the Liberals for the future of the country. After much discussion I looked him squarely in the eyes and said, my friend should that be the case I'd have to gun you down just like I would all the enemy but I want you to know Id do so with a very heavy heart. He didn't even flinch, just smiled and said, Id do the same to you but want you to know I wouldn't be happy about it at all..
I paused , thought for a sec. and told him, well you have no concept of what a relief it is to hear that!!
Here I was thinking that you'd do it with the same happy face that you wear when voting to steal my money to buy votes and make life easy for the worthless lazy slobs!!
I got nothing but silence from him for about four days. Then he approached me and said, you brought that subject up just to be able to deliver that last line , didnt ya?
I smiled and said, could be, could be amigo. He smiled and said , well pull the danger out my friend it struck home and has been hurting for four days now.
I turned my back and said, you first amigo , mine's been rusted in place for a couple decades now , yank very , very hard!!
He merely smiled and replied, was wondering when you'd notice , are we still on for Saturday night poker game??
I replied, Sure amigo, I welcome the chance to take your money fairly..--, and I always did until he got another job, moved to Cali.. He was a lousy poker player but still a good guy.. Kinda rare as far as liberals go..-
His name was Jonathan Becker, I've always wondered how he faired in Cali.. --Tyr

[Robert A Whit]

Is anyone really surprised about this?

Ummmm

Obama!!!!!!!!

Democrats!!!!!

Sure.

Believe it or not years ago I was great friends with a very liberal co-worker. We got along splendidly and talked about even highly contentious subjects with no problem ever occurring. One day during lunch we were discussing what ifs. I brought up what if we had a civil war and it was the Conservatives fighting the Liberals for the future of the country. After much discussion I looked him squarely in the eyes and said, my friend should that be the case I'd have to gun you down just like I would all the enemy but I want you to know Id do so with a very heavy heart. He didn't even flinch, just smiled and said, Id do the same to you but want you to know I wouldn't be happy about it at all..
I paused , thought for a sec. and told him, well you have no concept of what a relief it is to hear that!!
Here I was thinking that you'd do it with the same happy face that you wear when voting to steal my money to buy votes and make life easy for the worthless lazy slobs!!
I got nothing but silence from him for about four days. Then he approached me and said, you brought that subject up just to be able to deliver that last line , didnt ya?
I smiled and said, could be, could be amigo. He smiled and said , well pull the danger out my friend it struck home and has been hurting for four days now.
I turned my back and said, you first amigo , mine's been rusted in place for a couple decades now , yank very , very hard!!
He merely smiled and replied, was wondering when you'd notice , are we still on for Saturday night poker game??
I replied, Sure amigo, I welcome the chance to take your money fairly..--, and I always did until he got another job, moved to Cali.. He was a lousy poker player but still a good guy.. Kinda rare as far as liberals go..-
His name was Jonathan Becker, I've always wondered how he faired in Cali.. --Tyr

I dunno how he is doing.

I keep remembering when I was a Democrat. That lasted from birth till about 1978-9. I know I changed just in time to help Reagan win.

I have to laud the man as our best ever president.

Anyway, when I was a Democrat, it was because I was raised in a totally Democrat famiily. Nobody in the family voted for republicans. I think it is still mostly that same way today.

So, what was my mindset as a Democrat?

Well, my family taught me that the rich were bastards. That money ruined you. That to be rich meant you committed crimes.

I ask you. Who the hell wants to vote for somebody like that?

But then I saw the damage done by Carter.

I normally had not asked anybody to tell me their party to be pals with them. I could go a long time and not even bring up politics. I probably had a lot of fun with people of either party and had no idea what party they supported.

But I attribute my change to self study. I started going to book stores and buying a few books. I wanted to know more about how the system works, what got it started and I learned a lot about Thomas Paine. I had not heard of him during school. And I took college prep.

Then I picked up the book that changed my life. A book called, A Time For Truth by William E. Simon.

I don't see how a sane person can read Simon's book and remain a Democrat. So long as they also read Thomas Paines works.

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

I dunno how he is doing.

I keep remembering when I was a Democrat. That lasted from birth till about 1978-9. I know I changed just in time to help Reagan win.

I have to laud the man as our best ever president.

Anyway, when I was a Democrat, it was because I was raised in a totally Democrat famiily. Nobody in the family voted for republicans. I think it is still mostly that same way today.

So, what was my mindset as a Democrat?

Well, my family taught me that the rich were bastards. That money ruined you. That to be rich meant you committed crimes.

I ask you. Who the hell wants to vote for somebody like that?

But then I saw the damage done by Carter.

I normally had not asked anybody to tell me their party to be pals with them. I could go a long time and not even bring up politics. I probably had a lot of fun with people of either party and had no idea what party they supported.

But I attribute my change to self study. I started going to book stores and buying a few books. I wanted to know more about how the system works, what got it started and I learned a lot about Thomas Paine. I had not heard of him during school. And I took college prep.

Then I picked up the book that changed my life. A book called, A Time For Truth by William E. Simon.

I don't see how a sane person can read Simon's book and remain a Democrat. So long as they also read Thomas Paines works.

, lost souls always welcomed into the light!!--Tyr

[April15]

It seems to me that the article is just plain wrong. I have, in my younger days, scrapped cars for the money. When all the car was dismantled there was no residue at all. Everything was recycled as scrap of one kind or another. So I think this Rick Moran fella should maybe go scrap a car or two before opening his mouth.

[Kathianne]

It seems to me that the article is just plain wrong. I have, in my younger days, scrapped cars for the money. When all the car was dismantled there was no residue at all. Everything was recycled as scrap of one kind or another. So I think this Rick Moran fella should maybe go scrap a car or two before opening his mouth.

Except they didn't allow doing what 'you claim' to have done:

...According to E Magazine, the "Clunkers" program, which is officially known as the Car Allowance Rebates System (CARS), produced tons of unnecessary waste while doing little to curb greenhouse gas emissions.



The program's first mistake seems to have been its focus on car shredding, instead of car recycling. With 690,000 vehicles traded in, that's a pretty big mistake.



According to the Automotive Recyclers Association (ARA), automobiles are almost completely recyclable, down to their engine oil and brake fluid. But many of the "Cash for Clunkers" cars were never sent to recycling facilities. The agency reports that the cars' engines were instead destroyed by federal mandate, in order to prevent dealers from illicitly reselling the vehicles later.



The remaining parts of each car could then be put up for auction, but program guidelines also required that after 180 days, no matter how much of the car was left, the parts woud be sent to a junkyard and shredded.



Shredding vehicles results in its own environmental nightmare. For each ton of metal produced by a shredding facility, roughly 500 pounds of "shredding residue" is also produced, which includes polyurethane foams, metal oxides, glass and dirt. All totaled, about 4.5 million tons of that residue is already produced on average every year. Where does it go? Right into a landfill.



E Magazine states recycling just the plastic and metal alone from the CARS scraps would have saved 24 million barrels of oil. While some of the "Clunkers" were truly old, many of the almost 700,000 cars were still in perfectly good condition. In fact, many that qualified for the program were relatively "young," with fuel efficiencies that rivaled newer cars...

[glockmail]

The Clunkers thing was bad in so many ways, not just for the environment. It seems to me that modern politicians are very good at thinking up schemes to destroy wealth.

[fj1200]

The Clunkers thing was bad in so many ways, not just for the environment. It seems to me that modern politicians are very good at thinking up schemes to destroy wealth.

I don't know that they destroyed any wealth here but they certainly succeeded in limiting the supply of used cars, raising the prices, and harming poor people who rely on used cars. :thumbsup: libs.

[glockmail]

I don't know that they destroyed any wealth here but they certainly succeeded in limiting the supply of used cars, raising the prices, and harming poor people who rely on used cars. :thumbsup: libs.

You take something that is worth money and you destroy it. How is that not destroying wealth?

[fj1200]

You take something that is worth money and you destroy it. How is that not destroying wealth?

Give more in rebate than the car is worth. Then you just have your standard government unseen consequences.

[Kathianne]

I don't know that they destroyed any wealth here but they certainly succeeded in limiting the supply of used cars, raising the prices, and harming poor people who rely on used cars. :thumbsup: libs.

The biggest waste was not even recycling what was salvageable. None of that was done, indeed I'm fairly certain is was prohibited. Doesn't make sense.

Give more in rebate than the car is worth. Then you just have your standard government unseen consequences.

While April 15th thought he had a point, he didn't. The cars were just squashed to be off road. No recycling of parts.

House sold for knock down or 'property buys' are totally salvaged by builder to 'salvage shops.' Have a hundred fifteen year old house? Doors and windows will not be found at Home Depot. You can have them custom milled, but cost is pretty pricey. Go to salvage shop, lots of big, old oak doors, lots of knobs that will fit, plenty of skeleton keys. Same with wooden floors, old ceiling lights, etc.

[Robert A Whit]

, lost souls always welcomed into the light!!--Tyr

Thank you Tyr. Bear in mind I got unlost by 1979. 34 years ago and I have tried hard to live up to the principles. I was watching yesterday a you tube video of some young smart ass trying to argue with Milton Friedman. His face told the entire story. He was so frustrated that Milton's truth put back into the sack of errors the young guys idealogy.

It seems to me that the article is just plain wrong. I have, in my younger days, scrapped cars for the money. When all the car was dismantled there was no residue at all. Everything was recycled as scrap of one kind or another. So I think this Rick Moran fella should maybe go scrap a car or two before opening his mouth.

I too have scrapped out a dozen old cars in my youth. But this is about shredding. We scrapped, they shredded.

Originally Posted by fj1200
I don't know that they destroyed any wealth here but they certainly succeeded in limiting the supply of used cars, raising the prices, and harming poor people who rely on used cars. :thumbsup: libs.

Kathianne:


The biggest waste was not even recycling what was salvageable. None of that was done, indeed I'm fairly certain is was prohibited. Doesn't make sense.

Making cars scarce, though used, as FJ said, drove up prices of used autos. Those depending on used cars suffered. I would say that when they were forced to pay higher prices, they lost wealth. The seller gained wealth. In economics it was balanced. But then we always have to endure the democrats whining that they hate the rich and don't want to help them.

Well, they did.

Yes, as Kathianne explains, they did not part out cars to preserve wealth, they turned a higher price part into chunks of metal. They apparently created a lot of contamination.

Bear in mind, all dirty sites were not saw as dirty sites until somebody else had to do the clean up.

Take Mare Island Navy base in CA for instance. I worked there. Nobody informed me we made the land dirty. But later on, they had to clean up that island.

[April15]

I too have scrapped out a dozen old cars in my youth. But this is about shredding. We scrapped, they shredded.

As you live close by me take a drive to Redwood City and out seaport road. There you will find cars being shredded. The cars are scrap vehicles.

Except they didn't allow doing what 'you claim' to have done:

The quote is misleading at best. The article is wrong. What more can a man say? I know people in the car business and auto wrecking business. I collect scrap iron as a hobby to recycle/shred and have not seen what is described in the article.

[Kathianne]

The quote is misleading at best. The article is wrong. What more can a man say? I know people in the car business and auto wrecking business. I collect scrap iron as a hobby to recycle/shred and have not seen what is described in the article.

The 'man' could provide a link showing it wrong.