Which is more irrational? :)

[jimnyc]

I don't think anybody cares about the IDEA of God. If people believe in something and don't bother others about it, what's to resent? People can go sit on stylites in the desert and believe all they like, for all of me. As long as the taxpayer doesn't have to support them.

What people resent is intrusion and efforts to control them. Or replace their beliefs entirely, like the Muslims want to do.

Many, many, many get offended or get their panties in a bunch at the mere sight of anything religious, and 2x as much if it's Christianity.

[mundame]

Many, many, many get offended or get their panties in a bunch at the mere sight of anything religious, and 2x as much if it's Christianity.

Can you give a for-instance?

I don't mean creches in front of City Hall or prayers at graduation: those are religion/state issues that have lately stopped being winked at, fair enough, I suppose. As long as Muslims aren't allowed to prefer their religion either.

I mean non-constitutional religious stuff, and people getting offended?

[jimnyc]

Can you give a for-instance?

I don't mean creches in front of City Hall or prayers at graduation: those are religion/state issues that have lately stopped being winked at, fair enough, I suppose. As long as Muslims aren't allowed to prefer their religion either.

I mean non-constitutional religious stuff, and people getting offended?

Myself, I don't consider a kid mentioning God at a graduation to be the end of the world, or the state being involved. Same as for nativity scenes. I suppose some have a point if the government is paying for it, but what if it's 100% paid for by private donors? There was a place recently where a scene was on display every year for like a hundred years - no more. The park was a city park, and the funding didn't matter to those "offended". And then you have stores being condemned or boycotted of they dare use "Christmas" too often, as it may offend those that don't celebrate the holiday. Of course they need to watch the dollars, so they cave. Was it a military owned area? Honestly can't remember, but was fairly recently, where they were being told to remove a cross that remembered fallen soldiers. Can't have that!

Over the last 30 years or so it went from being something that was seen or heard everywhere, and now it's being told to occupy the proverbial closet that the gays came out of. It's ok still to be religious, just do so privately as not to offend anyone else.

[mundame]

Myself, I don't consider a kid mentioning God at a graduation to be the end of the world, or the state being involved. Same as for nativity scenes. I suppose some have a point if the government is paying for it, but what if it's 100% paid for by private donors? There was a place recently where a scene was on display every year for like a hundred years - no more. The park was a city park, and the funding didn't matter to those "offended". And then you have stores being condemned or boycotted of they dare use "Christmas" too often, as it may offend those that don't celebrate the holiday. Of course they need to watch the dollars, so they cave. Was it a military owned area? Honestly can't remember, but was fairly recently, where they were being told to remove a cross that remembered fallen soldiers. Can't have that!

Over the last 30 years or so it went from being something that was seen or heard everywhere, and now it's being told to occupy the proverbial closet that the gays came out of. It's ok still to be religious, just do so privately as not to offend anyone else.

I'd like everyone to do it privately and not offend anyone! And that includes Muslims. A black woman -- American, must have been a black Muslim -- came into the supermarket a few weeks ago, all clothed in black head to toe and one of those creepy veils with only her eyes showing! And two rude little boys telling me to get out of the way -- I suppose they'd been trained to disrespect women!! People ran from all over the store to get a look at her. Now, really, that's terrible. That goes too far. That's pushing religion way too far onto other people, IMO.

Basically, you are saying you don't agree with the church/state issues that have been backed off recently, because you are used to them and like them. However, they ARE church/state constitutional stuff, so we are all going to have to do without them.


Do you have stuff that people do that is NOT constitutional that you think offends people, but shouldn't?

Over the last 30 years or so it went from being something that was seen or heard everywhere, and now it's being told to occupy the proverbial closet that the gays came out of. It's ok still to be religious, just do so privately as not to offend anyone else.

To be fair, the Bible itself tells people to pray in their "closet," not right out showing off like those guys shouting mean stuff on the corner!

I think knocking on peoples' doors and haranguing them is pretty awful --- but of course the people doing that are mostly not Christians at all, Christians have gotten away from that sort of intrusion, very properly.

[jimnyc]

I'd like everyone to do it privately and not offend anyone! And that includes Muslims. A black woman -- American, must have been a black Muslim -- came into the supermarket a few weeks ago, all clothed in black head to toe and one of those creepy veils with only her eyes showing! And two rude little boys telling me to get out of the way -- I suppose they'd been trained to disrespect women!! People ran from all over the store to get a look at her. Now, really, that's terrible. That goes too far. That's pushing religion way too far onto other people, IMO.

Basically, you are saying you don't agree with the church/state issues that have been backed off recently, because you are used to them and like them. However, they ARE church/state constitutional stuff, so we are all going to have to do without them.


Do you have stuff that people do that is NOT constitutional that you think offends people, but shouldn't?

I don't have an issue as much if it's things in a state building, state sponsored and such. I don't see why others need to get "offended", but their being offended is backed by law.

Other than that, go to any restaurant or store during the holidays and find out how often you are greeted by "Merry Christmas" now as opposed to "Happy Holidays". This is done so as not to offend those not celebrating the holiday. Same for Christmas trees and such in stores and elsewhere, now gone or renamed to "Holiday Trees". The entire reasoning behind such changes is "so as not to offend others".

[jimnyc]

To be fair, the Bible itself tells people to pray in their "closet," not right out showing off like those guys shouting mean stuff on the corner!

I think knocking on peoples' doors and haranguing them is pretty awful --- but of course the people doing that are mostly not Christians at all, Christians have gotten away from that sort of intrusion, very properly.

Don't get me wrong, I'm FAR from one who thinks door to door preaching is OK. I don't condone that, from ANY religion.

[revelarts]

They should certainly just STFU and stay in Church; why not? It's really not up to them to convert other people!! Or to control other people.


You are just too eager to control people to shut up. If all you wanted was to believe and lead Christian lives, that would be great. Intruding and controlling is not great.

So who wants to control who here?


and you just wrong mundame
Just to be clear, It is up to us Present the gospel to everyone, but God coverts them.

Mark 16:14-16

Jesus said


¹⁴ Last of all, Jesus appeared to the eleven disciples as they were eating. He scolded them, because they did not have faith and because they were too stubborn to believe those who had seen him alive. ¹⁵ He said to them, “Go throughout the whole world and preach the gospel to all people. ¹⁶ Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved; whoever does not believe will be condemned.



the corrupt Jewish leaders wanted the disciple to STHU too

Acts 5:28-30

²⁸ “We gave you strict orders not to teach in this name,” he said. “Yet you have filled Jerusalem with your teaching and are determined to make us guilty of this man’s blood.”
²⁹ Peter and the other apostles replied: “We must obey God rather than human beings! ³⁰ The God of our ancestors raised Jesus from the dead—whom you killed by hanging him on a cross....
They called the apostles in and had them whipped. Then they ordered them not to speak in the name of Jesus, and let them go.

⁴¹ The apostles left the Sanhedrin, rejoicing because they had been counted worthy of suffering disgrace for the Name. ⁴² Day after day, in the temple courts and from house to house, they never stopped teaching and proclaiming the good news that Jesus is the Messiah.



All of the prophets where told to STHU, all they did was go around and tell people that God was going to judge them if they didn't turn to him.


Our country for founded with free speech as a understood right. If you find some religious speech offends you , i'm sorry, it's not the intent.
But it's not going to stay inside the Churches because it upsets you.

[Missileman]

Sure there are, and many of the new atheist have said as much. Not framed in the way of the question though.
they'd probably say they are offend by the IDEA of God, the God of the Bible specifically and of gods in general.

Not worth much without a link.

[revelarts]

Don't get me wrong, I'm FAR from one who thinks door to door preaching is OK. I don't condone that, from ANY religion.

Should the window sales men or girl scouts stop to?
sorry if you don't like the content but it's not, illegal .. yet.

Why not just say no thanks you and let them go to the next house I really don't understand the issue you guys have.
If you don't believe it anyway at most it should be a minor inconvenience not a moral offense.

please help me here.

[jimnyc]

Should the window sales men or girl scouts stop to?
sorry if you don't like the content but it's not, illegal .. yet.

Why not just say no thanks you and let them go to the next house I really don't understand the issue you guys have.
If you don't believe it anyway at most it should be a minor inconvenience not a moral offense.

please help me here.

I guess selling something is selling something. Personally, I am less offended when a 10yr old girl shows up looking to sell some cookies, so they can get new uniforms - than I am when a grown man and woman show up, and try selling me religious beliefs. Maybe it's because the religion being brought to my door is a different religion? I don't know. And Fwiw - I am generally polite, and usually tell them I'm in the midst of dinner or something like that.

I am a Christian. I have no issue with any message being delivered. Sometimes I don't care for how it's delivered is all.

[WiccanLiberal]

Have to laugh a little here. Some years back, I was still living by myself and noticed a man and woman canvassing the area, knocking on doors and leaving small pamphlets at doors where they got no answer. Got to be witnesses I think. So I go to my altar and get my besom (small ceremonial broom) and check to see where my cat was. I hung my biggest pentacle on my neck and as they knocked I picked up cat and broom and opened the door. They paused in the act of holding out a pamphlet and stumbled over a question about talking to me about Jesus. I smiled and said I would be delighted if they would share Circle with me first. Yes I know I was being a little bad but they DID KNOCK FIRST. They couldn't leave fast enough and I am convinced to this day that they put some kind of invisible mark on my door because nobody from that sect ever came back there. Believe what you like, live your life as a human with principles based on your faith. That is the best advertising you can do for the religion you follow - show it as a living concept.

[Abbey Marie]

...
Invitations are okay....assuming they aren't knocking on the door to do it. That would be wrong and pushy. The question is, who is it for? For you, to build up your church and your adherents, or for the person because you think they might like to join? If you are knocking on the door of a stranger's home, you are being intrusive and rude.
...

Doesn't seem any different to me than someone knocking on your door to sell a vacuum.
Annoying, perhaps. Intrusive and rude? Not really.

It is always odd to me how much people resent someone who is trying to tell them about salvation. Who is it hurting and how? Unless they are feeling a little nervous and/or guilty about their non-belief. Just like with my salesman example, you say "No thanks, I'm not interested" and carry on with your day.

ETA: Oops, just saw your post about the window salesman, Rev.

[Abbey Marie]

...
They should certainly just STFU and stay in Church; why not? It's really not up to them to convert other people!! Or to control other people.
...

Actually, it is.

[aboutime]

Actually, it is.

Abbey. Isn't it great when you can say so little, and, at the same time...Say so much????

[gabosaurus]

Don't get me wrong, I'm FAR from one who thinks door to door preaching is OK. I don't condone that, from ANY religion.

My favorite door sign: "Unless you are selling Girl Scout cookies, we don't want anything."

Runner-up: "Dog strongly objects to preachers and peddlers. Knock at your own risk."