NYPD Commissioner admitted that cops target minorites in stop & frisk

[Robert A Whit]

Originally Posted by revelarts
I guess my problem Jim is I don't want the cops to break the law to uphold the law.
you are all about law and safety until the cops do the law breaking. then your like well the ends justify the means.

I Understand the sentiment but police powers are broad enough to allow them to do their jobs, it seems to me.
If they feel that they have to break the law daily to protect people, they should --as you've said so many times--- go to the legislators change the laws. They have no right, as LAW ENFORCEMENT officers, to break the very laws they swore to defend and uphold.

And harassing innocent people is not somewhere i want the police to feel comfortable going in any neighborhood. that's the very definition of a police state.

I hear ya, and I don't think they should be breaking the law either. But common sense states to monitor those committing the most crimes. I still think they should have reasonable cause/suspicion before shaking someone down. But to profile down I don't take issue with. I'll give the cops some leniency in being aggressive in their searches for crime, but not to the point of having criminals chasing criminals.

This reminds me of two fish discussing the pond of water they live in. Telling each other and the rest of us how it is in that pond and they just won't sit still for things not working out their way.

My problem with the cops is they normally obey laws, but enough do not that they do become part of the problem.

I am sure using Google we call can pull up many articles on cops gone wrong.

[Robert A Whit]

Tell us rev. WHAT RIGHTS have they lost, according to you?
If the police officers are doing their job, and protecting people like you?
Would you prefer they just ignore everyone who falls into the categories you named above???

How do cops protect us? Even the fire department does little of that since when they come to the fire, it is already destroying lives. And what the fire misses, water ruins.

My philosophy is we protect ourselves first and if lucky, some cop shows up in time to prevent crime. But usually they come way too late to prevent crime.

[Robert A Whit]

Originally Posted by revelarts
I expected as much from some you.

And then you'll wonder why most minorities don't respect the police. When you endorse the idea that all should minorities be harassed by cops daily just because they are black... Just in case... and to keep them in fear.
All assumed guilty of being black/brown on the street.

How many times is a young man with no criminal record suppose enjoy be frisked for no reason for walking in his own neighborhood? it's happened to some over 15 times.

but i'm sure some of you think they just haven't found out what he's done ..yet.

rev. Would you also be so serious if a minority, from the white race was walking through a known, black neighborhood wearing a hoodie? If you were a police officer in your squad car. Driving through such a neighborhood and saw three, or four white kids who were obviously not there because they lived there. Would you do the same thing to them if someone from the neighborhood called 911 to report three, or four strange kids walking down the street?????

Just wondering how far your hypocrisy goes with profiling.

Do you challenge Revs claim that most minorities do not respect the police?

Do you endorse his claim that most think blacks are unfairly targets of cops?

[aboutime]

How do cops protect us? Even the fire department does little of that since when they come to the fire, it is already destroying lives. And what the fire misses, water ruins.

My philosophy is we protect ourselves first and if lucky, some cop shows up in time to prevent crime. But usually they come way too late to prevent crime.

Well, let me tell ya Pilgrum. You should remove any, and all efforts, or options to use calling 911 from your agenda in life.

Protect yourself from those who want to harm you, and just LET IT BURN...and don't bother calling anyone for help.

[jimnyc]

Robert, this thread is specifically about the NYPD and specifically about targeting and/or frisking. Please stay on topic.

[taft2012]

It seems Patterson doesn't want to comment according to the stories.
no way to tell why

i can't give you any more info than is in the reports linked above. on that specific part of the story Jim.

there's a host of other evidence that some just blow by assuming that the the police are right to target minorities, that stop and without any reasonable suspicion is GOOD police work rather than unconstitutional BS.

Nice work. You've learned the standard of proof necessary for a stop; "reasonable suspicion." You're showing progress.

there are quotas of stop & frisk
no one seems to mind
there are quotas for arrests
no one seems to mind
there are some crimes that are tossed in the trash bin at the station to make the crime stats look better. no one seems to mind
They kept the names and info for those stopped in a database even though they committed no crimes
No one seemed to mind
All the above and more is admitted by some NYPD officers.

It's all bullshit, coming from empty suit cops who don't want to do any work. But since it fits your agenda, I guess it makes sense to run with it.

[Dilloduck]

I see several issues at play here from civil rights to legal maneuvering. Which crimes are targeted for conviction and which are ignored ? If I'm trying to put a dent in white collar crime I'm targeting whitey. It may not be fair or legal but it will catch more of em and whitey ain't gonna sue me for targeting him.

[Robert A Whit]

Well, let me tell ya Pilgrum. You should remove any, and all efforts, or options to use calling 911 from your agenda in life.

Protect yourself from those who want to harm you, and just LET IT BURN...and don't bother calling anyone for help.

neighbors are much closer. Besides, the fire department of my city once explained to me that what is left over from a burning home is trash.

If you want to, find a burned out home and haul off some trash.

I did ask two questions. I suppose one won't be accused of not replying such as is done to other posters.

[taft2012]

SassyLady
Who causes the majority of crimes? Shouldn't the police be targeting those groups regardless of their race?
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to SassyLady For This Useful Post:
logroller (Yesterday),Tyr-Ziu Saxnot

aboutime -rhetorically-
….Why would anyone feel a need to target minorities….
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to aboutime For This Useful Post:
SassyLady (Yesterday),taft2012 (Today),Tyr-Ziu Saxnot (Today)



Do you see it now Taft?
I wonder

No, still don't see it. Sorry.

[taft2012]

Tell us rev. WHAT RIGHTS have they lost, according to you?

It's one of those Constitutional rights that didn't exist for over 100 years until a bunch of liberal judges came along and said "Holy crap on a cracker! Look at this Constitutional right we just discovered!"

Some people are saying this is all a show for this year's mayoral race, and that a district court judge can not blanket rule Terry stops unconstitutional. But I have my doubts.

I remember about 20+ years ago, during the crack cocaine scourge, the crack cocaine was packaged for sale in very distinguishable plastic vials. The pat down during a stop is done for weapons and officer safety, not evidence. But if during such a pat down a police officer's touch was able to determine a pocketful of these vials, the US Supreme Court determined that it would be reasonable for the officer to reach into the pocket and remove these vials. If they were found to contain crack cocaine, the evidence would be admissible in court. This became known as the "plain touch" exception.

However, the New York State Supreme Court disallowed the plain touch exception in New York State. So police all over the country were allowed to arrest people based on plain touch, but not police in New York State. It's odd, but apparently a state supreme court can override the US Supreme Court in expanding the rights of criminals, but not in the expanding the power of the police.

Which brings us back to Terry stops. Theoretically, a state Supreme Court can eliminate Terry stops just like they forbade plain touch. Which would basically lead to mayhem.

An example I gave previously; a guy can be walking up and down your street at 3:00 in the morning with a tire iron. Trying all the car doors, looking into all of the cars. The police would not be able to do anything, as this would represent only "reasonable suspicion", the current standard of proof for a stop.

So the officer would watch for a while, then get called away by something else on the radio, and return an hour or so later to find a bunch of cars broken into and one actually stolen.

They're not telling you, but this is basically the type of police work they are aspiring towards.

This is also Rev's prescription for military action as well; wait until attacked. Ignore navies steaming towards us, infantries massing on our borders, etc. We must wait until fired upon.

It's like Obamacare, you have to pass it to find out what's inside it. Trust me, you don't want it.

[revelarts]

The Video here his of 4 black guys speaking to white guy with a camera who as he was driving by saw to police officers giving the black guys tickets of some kind. and leaving.

It's kind of long and rambling but basically the 4 guys describe what happened and how it's a regular occurrence for young black men a few of their points.
they live in the neighborhood,
have lived there all their lives.
they know most of the people in the all of the building adjacent to were they are standing.
some of the police in area no this as well
they have no outstanding warrants
and are not criminals.
they were not smoking... anything.
they were not drinking
they were not being loud
they were not harassing people
they were not blocking the side walk.
They did not Stash anything

they say the crime is so low in the area that in the pass several years 3 police precincts have closed nearby

what they say happened:
They were just standing there talking as you might stand and talk your neighbors outside on a nice day.
1st one set of cops roll by, then another , then the 3rd pair stops Approach, and ask each for ID.
they give ID, the cops go back to the car for several minutes then return giving each a summons for a disorderly conduct. which is barely legible

They say this happens fairly frequently.
They say at time the cops will ask for id, go to the car and return ID but not give tickets, however several months down the road you'll find that they did write a ticket and now you have outstanding tickets you never knew about until you are harassed again.

They mention that basically the police do not want young black men on the street unless they are coming or going to their homes. That it's like martial law everyday. you are harassed if you stop or congregated. (BTW this sound exactly like China, crowds of more than 5 people are broken up by police)

They believe that if the white guy had been there with them the police would not have stopped.
near the end of the youtube the police roll by again, see the camera and say to the white guy.
"welcome to the neighborhood Jerk!"
then drive off.

they 4 black guys point out how they welcomed the white guy and were ready to talk to him and be pleasant compared to how the local public servant greets strangers to the neighborhood.


This is their account take it as you will. don't ask me to defend this or that,
or answer this or that point i wasn't there. make your own judgements.
Just putting it out FYI

<iframe src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/F-A5cNppZus?feature=player_detailpage" allowfullscreen="" frameborder="0" height="360" width="640"></iframe>

[red states rule]

Damn cops? Keeping an eye of people who are most likely to commit crimes

That is like the Vice Unit concentrating on the Red Light District

[taft2012]

UPDATE: In the wake of two state senators being arrested, as well as a state assemblyman, it was revealed that one of the senators and the assemblyman were wired up for federal prosecutors to bring down other state legislators. Eight more are now under criminal investigation for corruption, including, Rev's favorite; Senator Eric Adams.

[revelarts]

Damn cops? Keeping an eye of people who are most likely to commit crimes

That is like the Vice Unit concentrating on the Red Light District

sigh -head shake-
more like Dang cops giving people tickets for not committing any crimes Red.

[red states rule]

sigh -head shake-
more like Dang cops giving people tickets for not committing any crimes Red.

More like cops PREVENTING crimes from taking place