The Patriots

[diuretic]

Well, I am a patriot and I have objected for years to the corporate mindset that knows no borders and will sell anyone down the river for a buck/euro/yuan.

Amazing how many free-trade corporatists there are here. Count me out. Permanently.

It's a natural outcome of the creation of corporations. The conundrum for me is that so many good things would never have been achieved without the power of corporations. Adam Smith's vision of sole traders simply wouldn't have achieved what has been done by corporations. But now corporations are completely out of control and are plunging us headlong into an environmental disaster. Our governments seem to be powerless against them and some have even become their servants instead of our servants.

[glockmail]

Some substance would be nice. Educating people? Depends on what they're teaching. I'd be interested to see the curriculum and who is going to fund it.

Liberal democrats, who else?

[Gunny]

No. I'm an internationalist. Fuck governments.

It's time the people of the earth came together under one government. We will not survive otherwise.

Fuck patriotism. It always leads to killing and tyranny.

The people of the Earth will never come together, much less under one government.

Fuck your globalist, socialist idealism. It will lead to nothing but two classes of people ... those who are served and those doing the serving.

[loosecannon]

It's also amazing that so many communists attempt the smear tactic of associating free-trade with corporatism, as if they're related. It's further more amazing how well that smear tactic works on the retarded.

speaking of retarded Loki, have you read your post?

[loosecannon]

No, your an ignoramus looking for a one world tyranny. We can survive just fine without an algore or edwards anti-christ telling us how to live.

GW is neither an algore or an edwards antichrist. Nor is he an ignoramus.

You just can't listen to his POV without cowering in fear at a reasonable challenge to your reactionary nonsense ideology.

[Hugh Lincoln]

It's time the people of the earth came together under one government.

GW, it's time for your medication now.

[loosecannon]

It's a natural outcome of the creation of corporations. The conundrum for me is that so many good things would never have been achieved without the power of corporations. Adam Smith's vision of sole traders simply wouldn't have achieved what has been done by corporations. But now corporations are completely out of control and are plunging us headlong into an environmental disaster. Our governments seem to be powerless against them and some have even become their servants instead of our servants.

So true. When left to strive for profit and profit alone acheivements are realized that would be impossible if one were thwarted at all by concience or social responsibility.

It is like war, capable of summuning the epitome of human potential toward the most useless and/or destructive ends. And some collateral accomplishments are also realized.

[loosecannon]

Fuck your globalist, socialist idealism. It will lead to nothing but two classes of people ... those who are served and those doing the serving.

Oh come the fuck on Gunny. That is what the rights of kings, the elite burgoise and corporatism have always strove to acheive.

A two class society. One class with priviledge, wealth and power and the other without.

How is socialist idealism, no matter how misguided, guilty of leading toward something it was born to oppose?

[Gunny]

Oh come the fuck on Gunny. That is what the rights of kings, the elite burgoise and corporatism have always strove to acheive.

A two class society. One class with priviledge, wealth and power and the other without.

How is socialist idealism, no matter how misguided, guilty of leading toward something it was born to oppose?

Ideologically, I would agree with you. In practice, all socialist societies have the ruling class and the ruled class.

[loosecannon]

Well, I am a patriot and I have objected for years to the corporate mindset that knows no borders and will sell anyone down the river for a buck/euro/yuan.

Amazing how many free-trade corporatists there are here. Count me out. Permanently.

Count you out of what Baron? Being a free trade corporatist? Done. No prob.

[loosecannon]

Ideologically, I would agree with you. In practice, all socialist societies have the ruling class and the ruled class.

If by socialist societies you mean the faux 'coomie states' like Cuba, USSR, China, N Korea. Yeah sure.

Those were authoritarian states first and foremeost.

The single characteristic that is used to define a communist state in the last 50 years is state ownership of the means of production. That was marx's words and he invented the idea.

But authoritarian states that mimiced communism in name only (listed above) owned everything, not just the means of production. And communism was defined as the last stage of an evolutionary journey from exploitive capitalism to citizen ownership of industry via gummit.

It never happened. Authoritarians took up the names and popularity of communism so they could jump directly to something much like the rule of kings. German Democratic Republic, google it.

Depending on what is meant when you say "socialist nation", you could be refering to the US or North Korea.

[Gunny]

If by socialist societies you mean the faux 'coomie states' like Cuba, USSR, China, N Korea. Yeah sure.

Those were authoritarian states first and foremeost.

The single characteristic that is used to define a communist state in the last 50 years is state ownership of the means of production. That was marx's words and he invented the idea.

But authoritarian states that mimiced communism in name only (listed above) owned everything, not just the means of production. And communism was defined as the last stage of an evolutionary journey from exploitive capitalism to citizen ownership of industry via gummit.

It never happened. Authoritarians took up the names and popularity of communism so they could jump directly to something much like the rule of kings. German Democratic Republic, google it.

Depending on what is meant when you say "socialist nation", you could be refering to the US or North Korea.

True, but what I was not addressing was socialist idealism. I don't particularly care for that either. Who wants to be an identical cookie living in a cookie cutter house driving a cookie cutter car to a cookie cutter job? Socialism, IMO, promotes apathy. There is no incentive to excel. The cookie cutter dude next door could be half as smart and half as capable and STILL get paid the same and have the same as you.

I WAS referring to the bastardized verisons of Marxist societies that promoted a two-class society.

Hell, our middle class here is becoming a vanishing breed.

[loosecannon]

True, but what I was not addressing was socialist idealism. I don't particularly care for that either. Who wants to be an identical cookie living in a cookie cutter house driving a cookie cutter car to a cookie cutter job? Socialism, IMO, promotes apathy. There is no incentive to excel. The cookie cutter dude next door could be half as smart and half as capable and STILL get paid the same and have the same as you.

I WAS referring to the bastardized verisons of Marxist societies that promoted a two-class society.

Hell, our middle class here is becoming a vanishing breed.

OK, so we agree and GW prob does as well. Those false socialist states that promote a two class hierarchy and authoritarian rule as as deplorable to almost every partisan or ideological sector as is the rule of kings. Nobody wants to become the failed USSR or North Korea.

Our vanishing middle class should pay very careful attention to the new two class advocates who promote globalization platforms like the new World Bank chairman.

[Baron Von Esslingen]

It's also amazing that so many communists attempt the smear tactic of associating free-trade with corporatism, as if they're related. It's further more amazing how well that smear tactic works on the retarded.

Communists will lie about anything to stay in power. I have no such agenda nor do I have any such power nor do I believe, even incrementally, in communism. I believe in democracy by, for and of the people not the corporations. Hope that clears it up for ya.

[Gunny]

OK, so we agree and GW prob does as well. Those false socialist states that promote a two class hierarchy and authoritarian rule as as deplorable to almost every partisan or ideological sector as is the rule of kings. Nobody wants to become the failed USSR or North Korea.

Our vanishing middle class should pay very careful attention to the new two class advocates who promote globalization platforms like the new World Bank chairman.

Therein lies the problem in our own politics as well as globalization. The middle class are too busy trying to make it to pay much attention to the cause of their ailments. They're too busy to vote and/or demand accountability from their elected officials, and as long as it isn't their factory being shipped to Malaysia it isn't their problem.